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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:51, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gardners Candies

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`somewhat promotional article on minor firm--the refs are pr or local, and the evidence for the claim of first not sufficiently reliable for the purpose. DGG ( talk ) 22:57, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Not seeing anything here beyond passing mentions and rewritten press releases, fails WP:NCORP. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:26, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:35, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Carlos Baradello

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Promotional article for professional speaker. No evidence of meeting notability as WP:PROF or theGNG--the refs are either notices or pr, or non-independent. DGG ( talk ) 22:55, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Promotional or vanity page. Also has all the hallmarks of a commissioned work. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:15, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I personally see no significant notability, nor see any sense of statements or refs that could prove notability. In addition, there seems to be a heavy sense that the article is of a promotional nature. - Navarre0107 (talk) 02:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, apparently non-notable – seems to have published one article, which has been cited 5 times, and thus to have an h-index of 1. And yes, it certainly looks very much like paid work; Ruhri Jörg, were you hired to create this page? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:12, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Hi all. Same old story - apparently I'm still struggling to find the right balance between wanting to create new articles for people in alumni / faculty environments that I find interesting and think might pass as notable - and them actually doing so. In this case I judged that Baradello wouldn't pass academic notability, after looking at his h-index, but thought that the Spanish sources (esp. this one in El Diario, this and this might suffice and had enough to allow for an article. Especially since the first one was a full cover and not just some trivial mention. But maybe it's too regional? He seems to be a voice in the sector of innovation and I tried to keep the article very neutral. But probably was still influenced by Speaker.com and others. Since most of you are much more experienced than I am - as per usual I bow to the majority vote... just wish I got this figured out faster so I don't always invest so much work :P Should I do this in the sandbox in the future and ask for feedback first? Is there anything else I can do better to make sure they actually pass? Feedback appreciated --RuhriJörg 14:36, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- P.S.: The three mentioned sources seemed to me to be neither notices, pr nor non-independend @DGG: am I wrong? --Ruhri Jörg 14:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Although the numbers suggest a "delete" consensus, i would like time given to assess Ruhri Jörg's sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 21:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, no indication of person ever doing anything notable. Abductive (reasoning) 07:44, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nothing to see here (fails WP:GNG). Xxanthippe (talk) 10:22, 18 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Delete. Fails Wikipedia:Notability (academics) and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 11:51, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. The only thing that's clear here is that people disagree on whether this meets WP:NPOL, or if it even applies to this position, or if the LCfWiGaB Hall of Fame is a "significant award or honor". -- RoySmith (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ellen Bryan Moore

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Technically a state-level elected official, but a quite minor one, and not really covered by our practices with respect to DGG ( talk ) 22:51, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. "Register of State Lands" is a bureaucratic role, not an WP:NPOL-passing legislative office, so the notability test she would have to pass would require much more evidence of reliable source coverage than this. Three of the five footnotes are primary sources, not reliable or notability-making media coverage, and the two which are media (but are incompletely cited for the purposes of being able to locate them for proper verification, as they both lack the titles of the articles) appear, based on what they're actually being used to footnote, to just be routine verification of raw election results rather than coverage about Moore. This is not enough. Bearcat (talk) 15:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Yes this article had been deleted at PCP because it was created by the serial copyvioer User:Billy Hathorn (who also made dozens if not hundreds of nn articles, many of which I've sent to AFD). But he did make hundreds of legit notable articles, even if they must be deleted at PCP, and this one is it. And as for the "bureaucratic role" part, that is not true. While "Register of State Lands" is currently bureaucratic, it was still an elected office when the subject held it. Of course, if anyone has more adequate access to reliable sourcing to prove the fact that she held an elected office that was an elected office when she held it but is no longer an elected office (given that she held the elected office during a time where the internet did not exist), I would be glad. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 16:01, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the office happened to be elected is not an exemption from having to consider the nature of what the job entailed — the job duties were administrative, not legislative, in nature, so it's not an office that consitutes an automatic free pass over NPOL just because there was an election involved. There are lots of elected offices that we don't just uncritically accept as "inherent" notability freebies just because they were technically elected offices (e.g. city and county councils), and lots of offices that we do accept as notable even though people are appointed and not elected to them (e.g. the Canadian Senate and the British House of Lords) — we take into account the nature and scope of the work a person does in the role and the amount of coverage they get for it, not just the trivial details of how they got the job. Bearcat (talk) 18:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[W]e take into account the nature and scope of the work a person does in the role and the amount of coverage they get for it: Based on the vast majority of coverage found in a WP:BEFORE in some of the parish libraries hosted by Advantage Preservation, it seems the scope of Land Registrar involves the approval of financial exchange of land and having the associated notices posted on newspapers across the state of Louisiana. Hundreds (if not thousands) of these notices seem to have been published while she held the office. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 21:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the point: she has to be the subject of media coverage, not the creator of newspaper advertisements, to clear our notability standards. What you're describing is administrative, not political, work. Bearcat (talk) 21:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete fails WP:GNG and arguably WP:NPOL as well, the sourcing of this article is primary, hyper-local, or both, and is nowhere near enough to push her over the notability line. SportingFlyer T·C 23:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:ANYBIO#1 The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times.Lightburst (talk) 00:55, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep They thought she notable enough to be placed in the Louisiana Center for Women in Government and Business Hall of Fame decades after she was in office. Dream Focus 12:24, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as a statewide elected official, which passes WP:NPOL ("Politicians and judges who have held international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office"). The presumption of NPOL is that coverage exists and that there is sufficient coverage to write a substantive article about the subject (even if it is not currently in the article, is primarily local, or not online). --Enos733 (talk) 16:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NPOL #1 is talking about governors and cabinet officials and legislators, not purely administrative jobs. Bearcat (talk) 18:24, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we can read into anything in the language of NPOL that it only means governors and other specified positions. The guidance at WP:POLOUTCOMES does not specify that either. I also am not sure how "administrative" the position was when the subject was in office. --Enos733 (talk) 23:32, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete Trying to do some archive and news searches but I can't find much coverage of her or her campaigns. While statewide elected positions often pass NPOL, Louisiana had 11 at that time and no state even has that many now and this is not a coverage-receiving role. Though, I laugh at the idea that a local hall of fame for a specialized topic is a "well-known and significant award"; most inductees to that are not notable and she does NOT pass Anybio1. Reywas92^Talk 19:58, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Reywas92: Statewide hall of fame for women broadly construed (and also the occasional men who help women), actually, and Section 1 of Article V of the 1921 Constitution of the State of Louisiana listed only eight members of the executive department (including Register of the Land Office). FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 01:51, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, I couldn't care less if it's statewide rather than local, you're absolutely nuts if you think this is "well-known and significant" even within Louisiana; it's a nice way to honor people but certainly neither of those for our purposes. "Members of the executive department" is not the same list as elected officials, which Political party strength in Louisiana has as eleven until 1974. I don't think this is a notable position (don't even have an article for those below AG, or most of the officeholders) but that's fine if it's kept, still being statewide. Reywas92^Talk 03:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment All of the keep !voters have discussed things based on WP:SNG-based guidelines, but the sourcing of the article is absolutely terrible. We have her tombstone, an archived biography of her from the state of Louisiana, an oral history/interview, two alleged newspaper articles from a town of 10,000 people, and a website showing she got an award which just lists her name without any biographical information there at all. The only two sources here which potentially pass WP:GNG are sourced as routine election coverage. This article badly fails WP:GNG, and we should not be looking to keep it on a technicality. SportingFlyer T·C 06:19, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTABILITY clearly states "It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right". You don't have to meet the GNG if you meet any of the subject-specific guidelines. Dream Focus 13:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Once a subject clears GNG or a SNG, the current state of the sourcing or content of the article does not change whether the subject is notable or not (see WP:NEXIST) and there is not a prohibition on using interviews or other primary sources (or information which is off-line) WP:PSTS. --Enos733 (talk) 15:21, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but there's a bit wrong here: the SNGs are designed to make it clear what will meet WP:GNG. They create presumptions something will pass WP:GNG. If a subject meets a WP:SNG (which it doesn't here either, but that's beside my point) but is shown to definitively fail WP:GNG, we can't keep it. And I'm not concerned there's an interview in the article, but you can't use an interview to show notability. If I gave 20 interviews about my own life, I wouldn't become Wikipedia-notable. SportingFlyer T·C 16:13, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SportingFlyer is correct; people are not exempted from having to have any reliable source coverage just because the page asserts that they pass an SNG. For one thing, sometimes people make false claims to passing SNGs that they don't really pass: we have seen articles created about writers and musicians making award-based or sales-based notability claims that were actually PR lies (charting hits or bestselling books that weren't; whitewashing the major distinction between "submitted to the award committee for consideration" and "actually shortlisted by the award committee as a nominee" so that they can claim to have award nominations; etc.), and we have seen hoax articles created about political officeholders who never actually existed at all. And for another, even if the notability claim is the truth, we still have to be able to properly verify everything else the article says about the person too. So appearing to have attained technical passage of an SNG does not exempt a person from having to have any reliable source media coverage for the purposes of fulfilling GNG; the SNGs serve to clarify what counts as a notability claim if the article is supported by reliable sources, and does not exempt a person from having to have any media coverage just because of what the article says. Bearcat (talk) 16:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I solidly disagree. First, there is no question in this case that the subject served as Register of State Lands, an elected, state-wide position in the State of Louisiana. We have verifiable, independent sourcing for this statement (including from the State of Louisiana itself). The other claims in the article do not need (although it is nice) to be secondary sources. Primary sources can be used for descriptive claims WP:PRIMARY and all the claims in the article are found in the sources provided. --Enos733 (talk) 16:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC) [reply]

And what we don't have is reliable or independent sourcing to verify that "Register of State Lands" is a noteworthy or significant role in the first place. We're able to verify lots of things about lots of people that don't translate into exemptions from having to be the subject of reliable source coverage; as I've often had to point out in AFD discussions, even an actual president of an entire country would not qualify for an article if he somehow managed to hold the role without having any reliable source coverage in media, such that we had to rely entirely on his own self-published content about himself to have any sources at all. It's not the fact of having a job that gets a person into Wikipedia; it's the volume and depth and range of reliable source coverage in media that they received for having that job. Even "inherently" notable political roles (which Register of State Lands is not) still require media coverage — the "inherence", in fact, is precisely because of the depth and range of media coverage that exists, and is never an exemption from actually having to have any media coverage at all. Bearcat (talk) 17:13, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With the exception of academics, SNGs not overriding GNG is solidly established policy. See: [[1]] SportingFlyer T·C 02:55, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's only for the sports guideline. The WP:NOTABILITY is quite clear, meet one or the other not both. Dream Focus 03:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, it's all guidelines. There is never any such thing as any SNG that confers an exemption from having to have reliable source coverage just because the article says something that some people apparently seem to think sounds notable. Bearcat (talk) 21:07, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Bearcat on this point - all claims must be verified. However, my larger point is once a subject is presumed notable (by passing a SNG through verification of the claim to notability), it is acceptable to turn to a variety of sourcing (including primary sources) to "support the content in the article" WP:BASIC. Volume and depth of independent, RS material is nice, but not necessary. --Enos733 (talk) 03:56, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Interesting discussion but Ellen Bryan Moore is statewide elected official. Notability has been established. - Ret.Prof (talk) 12:32, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I just started looking for sources now. Her obituary (from Associated Press, published in The Times, Shreveport and other papers), has a lot more info about her, including her father's name and occupation and where she was born, her education, what she was responsible for as registrar of state lands (management of state property, management of state parks, collection of oil and gas revenues - and she worked to improve the Louisiana state park system, including the purchase and preservation of a Civil War battle site and lobbying the governor for guidelines on salvaging 400 year old Spanish ships that sank off the coast of Louisiana ([2]. An article in the same paper two years later called 'Women making strides in political arena' has a list of 8 women who had held statewide elected office in Louisiana, including Moore [3]. It certainly seems that she meets WP:NPOL, which does not exclude bureaucratic office. There is probably other coverage, but sifting the 4,432 results on Newspapers.com for "Ellen Bryan Moore" for articles about her rather than notices published by her will take some time. (Though I have found coverage which gives her husband's name and the fact that she had two daughters.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 20:52, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @RebeccaGreen: Thanks. I've already incorporated parts of the AP obituary, so you wouldn't mind doing that for the newspapers.com entries, wouldn't you? FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 23:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Pensacola State College. I find many of the keep arguments unconvincing. The fact that an article is still in the process of being written doesn't mean we need to keep it around if the underlying subject isn't found to be notable. There are some claims that there's sufficient sources to satisfy WP:N, but nobody actually listed which ones they are. I know nobody actually suggested a redirect, but it seems like a reasonable middle ground and a WP:ATD, given that the target already mentions the newspaper. The history will still be around, so if anybody wants to merge material, it's still there for them to do so (with proper attribution, of course). -- RoySmith (talk) 23:54, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Corsair (Pensacola State College newspaper)

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no evidence of notability , and college newspapers are not ordinarily notable. DGG' ( talk ) 22:42, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG:, I apologize, it may be my oversight, but I don't see any reason for deletion listed on this AfD page, what is your concern? - Navarre0107 (talk) 22:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

typo--I fixed it DGG ( talk ) 05:10, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG:, I would note that many college newspapers are included on Wikipedia; therefore showing that college newspapers aren't, by nature, unnotable. In addition, from the citations and refs I've found so far, the paper is relatively independently notable for a student newspaper of its size. - Navarre0107 (talk) 05:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Other stuff exists - Epinoia (talk) 23:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Epinoia:, I understand this rule; however, I was just commenting on the original statement that claimed that college and university newspapers aren’t “ordinarily notable,” not trying to make an independent claim that this is notable because others exist. Sorry, I certainly could have worded that more clearly, I sincerely apologize if I caused any confusion because of this :) - Navarre0107 (talk) 03:48, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, espically since this article is only just beginning to be made, much more information and more refs can be still be added in order to further show its notability, and the fact that, as of the writing of this comment, no straightforward reason for deletion has been written on this AfD, I see no reason to delete the entire article at this given time. (edit: please note that the latter point of this comment was written before the typo was fixed, meaning that point is now invalid; however, this should not affect the other two points, which should still be valid.) - Navarre0107 (talk) 00:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

— Note to closing admin: Navarre0107 (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.

@DGG:, Thank you for adding your reasoning, I don't entirely agree, as noted by my above comments, though I very much appreciate the clarificaitons :) - Navarre0107 (talk) 05:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Move to draftspace, if the editor states that they are just beginning to create the article. – The Grid (talk) 20:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - WP:STUDENTMEDIA says that student newspapers are to be judged by the same criteria as any other newspaper - no substantial references provided - does not meet WP:NNEWSPAPER which requires reliable sources that write significant commentary about the periodical - the only thing that could save the article is the criterion that the periodical has received a notable award; the article states that the paper and its staff have won awards, but are they "notable" awards? - Epinoia (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Epinoia:, per the article, they received two Online Pacemaker Awards from the Associated Collegiate Press, which, according to both that organization’s website and Wikipedia article, is among the highest awards a college or university newspaper in the U.S can receive. This is in addition to the good number of state awards they’ve recived that has gotten relatively good attention from the press. - Navarre0107 (talk) 22:58, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, I am persuaded by the above argument concerning the notability of the newspaper's awards. It seems there are a number of reliable sources, and that the page is quite substantial. It also is not unusual for a student newspaper to be notable, there is a decent sized category just for student newspapers in Florida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Student_newspapers_published_in_Florida Mharbert20 (talk) 23:05, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this college newspaper.Strandvue (talk) 12:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Pensacola State College, per WP:ATD-M, WP: VNOTSUFF and WP:PAGEDECIDE. Even if technically crossing arbitrary notability thresholds, articles like this one rarely become more than defacto mirrors of official websites, loaded with disproportionate coverage of run-of-the-mill stories, fleeting trivia, and name-dropping bonanzas of non-notable writers and editors (trivial pablum like "As of the August 2019 issue, The Corsair has 11 staff writers, with additional members reportedly signing up for the fall of 2019 term" is of encyclopedic use to nobody). The paper can be succinctly and adequately summarized, including all notable awards, in a few paragraphs in the parent organization's article. --Animalparty! (talk) 16:57, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Clearly not enough coverage here, also as pointed out WP:BLP1E. Black Kite (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Standorf

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no apparent evidence of notability DGG ( talk ) 22:41, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1) What is the criteria for 'notability' and who considers items 'notable'?

2) One reason that someone may not have heard of this person is that this was 1991 and well before everything was digitized and put online

3) Another reason would also be that perhaps something that goes against the corporate media narrative doesn't encourage them to even cover it? When someone on Wikipedia says 'not notable', then aren't they really saying "I've not seen it in the mainstream corporate run media"?

4) The barebones of the article are there, it can be fleshed out laterApeholder (talk) 00:58, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

— Note to closing admin: Apeholder (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.

@Apeholder:, Delete, the criteria for notability are covered by Wikipedia:Notability. From the current information provided, it doesn't appear to meet those guidelines. In addition, the article seems to have a sense of unproven conspiracy theory to it, your 3rd previous statement, while maybe not meant in this way or misinterpreted on my part, seems to give this sense as well. - Navarre0107 (talk) 03:03, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Navarre0107: Keep, by your logic, then nothing outside of the narrow field of the mainstream media should never be on here. Nothing reported from Wikileaks, leaks before they hit CNN, etc. You do realise that sometimes big stories start out at smaller sources, sometimes for quite sometime before the mainstream media may decide to run it? Clearly if you've not heard of it, then it's invalid? StrangeApeholder (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Apeholder:, but, by both the article and your own notation, these events occurred in the last decade of the 20th century, nearing 20 years ago. If this had any notability to it, it would have already been placed within reports of some sort. Those reports don't have to be within mainstream media, but they have to be at least notable reports of scientific, cultural, or newsworthy value of some sort. Personally, as based upon my understanding of the rules of Wikipedia, this article does not apply to those standards. I encourage you to edit and rewrite the page in order to prove its notability; however, at the current time, I don't see it. - Navarre0107 (talk) 05:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets WP:GNG per [4], [5].----Pontificalibus 15:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - arguendo that this was a conspiracy, it's not a notable Conspiracy theory. There's been no ongoing coverage, no government reports, no leaks, nor public investigations. In a conspiracy-filled Washington, this is run of the mill. Bearian (talk) 15:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete coverage of death does not rise above routine.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:08, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 00:18, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Syed Qazi Muzainul Haq

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Fails WP:GNG ,WP:NAUTHOR now therre are thousands of Islamic scholars not clear how the subject is notable and lacks third party sources. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:38, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete My searches mainly just turned up WP and WP-mirrors, nothing that would establish meeting general notability or any other standard of notability. PohranicniStraze (talk) 22:49, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:GNG and WP:NAUTHOR. subject has not been covered in detail in any reliable media. This Jagran link in Hindi [6] is an article about a village event and merely mentions the name of the subject without elaborating on him. The subject appears to me as a local Islamic priest of a village. --DBig Xrayᗙ 07:31, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No info that supports notability. Barca (talk) 23:38, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
delete as not notable.Strandvue (talk) 12:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:02, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FOREO

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Advertisement --Bageense^(disc.) 18:49, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I agree that the article is primarily advertisement. Rockphed (talk) 12:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To expand, looking at the sources posted in the previous AfD, I am leery of their independence. Rockphed (talk) 12:49, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Nothing rises above the level or passing mentions and rewritten (if at all) press releases. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:11, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 00:19, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pârâul Varului

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This stream does not meet the WP:Notability guideline (significant coverage in reliable sources). The only mentions I found of Pârâul Varului (apart from Wikipedia and clones) were about a stream with the same name flowing into the Mureș. It is shown on a detailed hiking map as a short stream (about 1 km long) southwest of the village Valea Zălanului. Markussep ^Talk 17:51, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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For clarity: the other stream Pârâul Varului I mentioned above flows into the Mureș near Izvorul Mureșului in Harghita County, and is probably not notable either. The stream described in this article flows into the Pârâul Bradului, which is a short tributary of the Tecșe, in Covasna County. Markussep ^Talk 10:51, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As a simple stream lacking substantive sources with details beyond location it does not appear to pass WP:GEOLAND. Reywas92^Talk 18:35, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - WP:GEOLAND says a stream may be notable provided there is enough information beyond statistics and coordinates - the article does not even provide the basic statistics and coordinates, nothing to show that the stream itself is notable - it's a run of the mill stream WP:MILL - we need something to show that the stream is unique to distinguish it from millions of other streams - no references to establish notability, no significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources - also Wikipedia:One sentence does not an article make - Epinoia (talk) 20:51, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to 13 Reasons Why. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:56, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Grace Saif

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An actress that has only one noble role, see 13 Reasons Why, does not meet the notability guidelines of WP:GNG and WP:NACTRESS. In addition, see WP:ONEEVENT. She has no significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. No large fan base or a significant "cult" following nor made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment. This also falls in the WP:TOOSOON category. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Definitely fails the WP:GNG and WP:NACTRESS. WP:TOOSOON -- LACaliNYC ✉ 21:17, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The subject has received significant media coverage for her starring role in a popular TV series. KidAd (talk) 01:51, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Most of the article (and citations) is about a single social media incident. Take that incident (which is pretty common these days) away, and there's not much left: "Young actress has done a little work." It's true we have many articles which have even less notability, but that's no reason to let this one off. ubiquity (talk) 15:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per Ubiquity. And, while I am incapable of contesting that she starred in a major TV show, the guideline requires multiple major roles in multiple major productions. She has had 1 role. Regardless of how major it was, she cannot have multiple major roles in multiple major productions. Rockphed (talk) 12:46, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 13 Reasons Why where her name appears in the cast list - not notable enough for a stand alone article; does not meet WP:NACTOR - Epinoia (talk) 20:56, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 13 Reasons Why. WP:TOOSOON for her to meet WP:NACTOR, as that show was her first and so far only significant role, as far as I can tell. I don't believe that she meets WP:GNG yet either, from the coverage about her in that role - much of it is speculation, or based on her online profiles, and most of the discussion is about the character and her role in the series. RebeccaGreen (talk) 21:08, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. All involved agree that this article needs some improvement. There is a disagreement on how that improvement should occur but general consensus that this a notable topic that should be kept. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:13, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deaf News

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Reads more like an essay-like summary of a topic than an encyclopedia article. ViperSnake151 Talk 20:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, I think this falls under the WP:NOTESSAY and WP:NOTFORUM rules, meaning that if it were to be included as an article, it would need to be significantly edited. - Navarre0107 (talk) 03:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I have been involved in a deaf community and I can tell you that deaf people communicate and express themselves in ways completely different to hearing people (see Deaf culture) - if this article seems stilted and awkward, it's a deaf person trying to express themselves in hearing language - that said, the article is really a list of deaf news outlets - the article is lacking in sources, but Wikipedia:Notability (media) allows that periodicals are notable if they are "significant publications in...non-trivial niche markets" - the deaf community is a non-trivial niche market - unfortunately, only the link to www.thebuffandblue.net is working, all the other links to deaf news outlets listed in the article are dead links - the article could be deleted due to lack of sources, but my experience with the deaf community and knowing the exclusion that they experience from the hearing world makes me lean towards a keep - Epinoia (talk) 21:36, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. The topic itself is interesting, but I would suggest re-naming it Media in the Deaf Community. It's poorly written, and lack sourcing, but it is an encyclopedic topic.4meter4 (talk) 11:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: OK Epinoia you have won me over! - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:39, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep if cleaned up. Here are several sources that could be used to source this article and make it pass WP:GNG: [7], [8], [9], [10]. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:09, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. While I take note of RebeccaGreen's substantial efforts on this article while it was at AfD, the consensus here is to delete the article for lack of notability. ST47 (talk) 21:02, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Johanna Baer

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Non notable actress, No evidence of any notability, Google News only brings up a few one-bit mentions[11], I did find this however that's still a mention although the best out of the 6-10 sources there, Fails #1, #2 and #3 of WP:NACTOR and fails GNG. –Dave | Davey2010^Talk 19:04, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Yet another performer whose WP article is limited to what's on IMDB. She had actually started performing on stage in ballets by the age of 6. I'll see what I can add to the article (certainly information about her parents and where she trained, as well as performances). (And, as I frequently remark at AfDs, Google is not the best source for people whose careers predate the internet.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 20:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly agree with that, Unfortunately I have no access to books etc but if others do I'd happily keep this, Thanks. –Dave | Davey2010^Talk 20:29, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a couple footnotes. I think she did some interesting things in her career and the titles are well known. So I would argue for keeping the article.Howard352 (talk) 20:31, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Clearly fails the WP:GNG and WP:NACTRESS. -- LACaliNYC ✉ 21:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I have added sources and information, covering her career from 1968-1984. The roles that I think best meet WP:ENTERTAINER are voicing Lila in Snoopy, Come Home, and performances with the American Ballet Theatre's Repertory Company (a review of one in the New York Times is included in the article). Most of the coverage I have found of her stage performances as a child were in local newspapers. The company, Ballet Celeste, did tour internationally during the years that she was a member, including to Japan for Expo '70, to the UK and to Canada. I have not tried to find coverage in Japanese of the Expo performances, and I haven't found much coverage online of the international tours, and none that mentions her - whether any existed or not, I don't know. I also haven't found many reviews online of the ballet companies she was a member of - there may well have been more in specialist journals and magazines. She certainly did more than was included in the article when it was nominated for AfD, but I haven't found enough reviews of her performances to say it's a definite, strong keep. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:48, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks RebeccaGreen not only for finding sources but alse adding them all to the article and thank you for also expanding the article - your work here is greatly appreciated, Thanks, –Dave | Davey2010^Talk 11:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - I just did a quick search on newspapers.com (not the Google newspapers link) and there were quite a few articles. Netherzone (talk) 11:39, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Netherzone, I should have said that most of the sources I found and added to the article were from Newspapers.com. Cheers, RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:10, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful, RebeccaGreen thanks for that info and the sources you added. Netherzone (talk) 22:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep Good Job to RebeccaGreen for finding sources and putting them in the article. I think this is currently sitting right on the border of being notable; what pushes it over is that her entire career predates the internet. Rockphed (talk) 12:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: To be notable for dancing, she'd have to be a principal dancer, or at least a regular star dancer with ABT with lots more coverage in major reviews. Her film career is also non-notable. I don't think she's really close to notable. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:15, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per Ssilvers.4meter4 (talk) 12:28, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - tough call this. Firstly, RebeccaGreen has woven her usual magic on this page. The problem that I have is that I can't access some of the key sources, eg reference 16 which is behind a paywall. Also, none of her roles indicate notability in themselves. Sorry, she is close but but I am not quite convinced as to notability at this point. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Seems GNG is met. Tone 07:44, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nir Eyal

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Still not meeting WP:BIO or WP:AUTHOR. They have a new book out, but what appears to be coverage in the Guardian is in fact him running a "masterclass" i.e. not independent or reliable. SmartSE (talk) 19:04, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Would it be acceptable to replace the Guardian citation with either of the following? https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/333412 or https://www.fastcompany.com/40579601/this-behavioral-designers-top-brain-hacks-for-beating-distraction ? Both reference the same information and may be considered more independent and reliable, yes? Even if those replacement citations won't work and the info about his second good needs to be removed he still qualifies as notable under WP:AUTHOR since he developed the "hook model" and has been cited a fair amount on Google scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C50&q=%22Hooked%3A+How+to+build+habit-forming+products%22&btnG= Scruitineer (talk) 13:17, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

— Note to closing admin: Scruitineer (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.

Delete per nom fails WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for weighing in. I obviously disagree, but would you mind at least elaborating on why you don't think the subject meets WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR? I would like to better understand why this page is going to get deleted when, in my view, the subject meets (exceeds?) those thresholds for a page. Thanks in advance for any explanation you're able to provide, and again I appreciate you weighing in. Scruitineer (talk) 19:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:GNG. While there may or may not be some COI issues going on with this article, the subject of the article is in fact notable. He was the subject of a segment on NPR (see here), an article in Forbes (see here), Arab News (see here), and is an on air contributor for CNBC (see here) in addition to the things already mentioned in the article.4meter4 (talk) 05:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 21:34, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mai Gotō (actress)

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No indication of notability. There was another AFD a decade ago, but I am not impressed with the Keep arguments, since none of them conform to the WP:ENT guidelines. So let's start up a new discussion, why don't we? Sk8erPrince (talk) 18:09, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment According to the jawiki page, she was a candidate for Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly, so I'm adding her to WP:DSPOL. And please, check the page for other info. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 16:05, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - the Japanese language article is much more extensive and seems to have both inline citations and external links. Has the nominator reviewed them? matt91486 (talk) 17:31, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, without prejudice against recreation if somebody with better Japanese-language skills than I have can do better than this. While it's true that the Japanese article is longer, it isn't what I could call better-referenced: two of its three footnotes are unrecoverable dead links, one of those two was a primary source which was never actually support for notability at all, and the one reference that is still live is just a glancing namecheck of her existence in an article about somebody else, not coverage that's substantively about her. And per WP:WAX, the fact that an article happens to exist on another language Wikipedia is not in and of itself an inclusion freebie that exempts a person from having to have reliable sources; on the basis of the sources present in it, I'd personally nominate the Japanese article for deletion if I had any ability to navigate the deletion process in a language I can read only through Google Translate. If somebody with better Japanese reading skills can actually find evidence of better sources, I'd be happy to reconsider this — but the sources here aren't cutting the mustard, and the sources in the Japanese article aren't any better. Bearcat (talk) 18:04, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: does not meet WP:BASIC / WP:ENT. Ja.wiki article is equally unconvincing for notability. K.e.coffman (talk) 17:41, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I'm surprise @Bearcat: did not bring up that she does not meet WP:NPOL because she was only a losing candidate for Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 23:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete one film appearance does not make someone notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:54, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ~~ OxonAlex - talk 14:11, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Naomi Wakabayashi

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Subject is not known for any significant roles other than Ritsuko Akizuki from Idolmaster and Kud and Little Busters. Sk8erPrince (talk) 18:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. No need for WP:NACTOR. This person satisfies WP:NMUSIC 2 and 10. Her iDOLM@STER character's three albums and one single (all four solo) charted at 10, 19, 20, and 34. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 16:20, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I've skimmed the Japanese article and found out that she is no doubt notable since she only had a significant role in the anime The Twelve Kingdoms.--RekishiEJ (talk) 15:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - there is only one reference in the article and that is to Wakabayashi's own blog - does not meet WP:BASIC; no significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources - Epinoia (talk) 03:10, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per results from the Japanese wiki. Govvy (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep WP:NACTOR clearly states: "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." Multiple means two or more, as clearly defined in the dictionary. Since the nominator admits they have two significant roles, I see no reason for this AFD. Dream Focus 11:37, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Statements appear to be reliably sourced. Barca (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per results from the Japanese wiki. - MA Javadi (talk) 20:02, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A related AFD is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aoi Ichikawa. More participation there please. Dream Focus 22:09, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How is it related? The only thing these two have in common is their occupation. I don't think you're allowed to WP:CANVASS other editors like this.... --Sk8erPrince (talk) 22:31, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is not canvassing to try to get more people to participate in an AFD which for some reason got overlooked by most. They may be familiar with the roles in the series the person has been in, or have other information about them. Dream Focus 22:46, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Each AFD is different, and independent of each other. I disagree with your assessment that the Ichikawa AFD is in any way related. I just happened to have nommed that for deletion as well. There is no real correlation, and not to mention, I have never seen anyone attempt to call attention to another AFD in an AFD discussion. Heck, I am not even sure if you're even *allowed* to do that (I have a feeling that it's not). --Sk8erPrince (talk) 23:00, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Their articles look about the same to me. Both have a very brief bit of information about them at the top, and then the article lists all their roles. And I've seen this done many times before, it is allowed between similar articles. Dream Focus 23:04, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment AfD is not cleanup. As written, the article clearly fails WP:NBIO and various NACTOR. There is no indication that any of her roles (mostly, voice) where for major characters. No indication she has any fans, got covered in press, etc. FoxyGrampa75 mentions music involvement but it is not discussed in the article at all. As far as I know, idolmaster is a large group, so it's not like they were solo works, through this wikia page suggests there is a lot of related products. There's some minor celeb coverage in anime-fandom [12]. This probably needs fixing, rather than deletion, through I think her notability is more related to passing NMUSIC than NACTOR. I'd appreciate if someone else familiar with NMUSIC could confirm she passes based on this criteria; please ping me if there is more discussion on that. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:55, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. passes WP:NACTOR #1 and passes WP:NMUSIC #s 2 and 10. Lightburst (talk) 22:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets basic notability criteria per Lightburst and Piotrus --DannyS712 (talk) 05:52, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:NMUSIC and WP:NACTOR.4meter4 (talk) 11:59, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. There is a consensus that coverage of Morressey, in both his role as Mayor and State party chair, does not satisfy either general notability guideline or the political SNG. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Morrissey (Arizona politician)

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The mayor of Payson, AZ, a town of a little over 15,000. Does not meet WP:NPOL. My prod was removed by the article's creator, AcceptJesus2020. -Crossroads- (talk) 18:04, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Pinging Bearian since you endorsed my prod. -Crossroads- (talk) 18:07, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, this is not meant as a canvass, just to make sure that Bearian saw this to take another look. Also, when the prod was removed, the reason given was This guy was the state chairman of The Arizona Republican Party. This doesn't meet NPOL however. I'm pretty sure state party chairmanship does not constitute statewide office in the sense required. -Crossroads- (talk) 18:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I don't see any significant press coverage, so WP:NPOL is surely a slam dunk. Chairman of the Arizona Republican Party doesn't cut it for notability IMO, and there's nothing in the WP:NPOL guideline suggesting it does. Bishonen | talk 18:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Weak Keep, agree the office doesn't meet WP:NPOL, but I think there is enough coverage for GNG. Lots of articles in the AZ Capitol Times, Phoenix New Times, Huff Post, Arizona Republic, NPR, Politico, Huff Post again. Much of the coverage came from the birther controversy which isn't even in the article. MB 19:29, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - definitely doesn't meet WP:NPOL, however, he does appear to meet WP:GNG, as per the sources found by MB.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:37, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I would have to say that, as the mayor of such a relatively small town, having not received significant news coverage, he doesn't meet WP:NPOL from that front. However, he may meet this standard, and at least meets the general standards for notability, due to his position as the state chair of a major political party. - Navarre0107 (talk) 03:15, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - Thank you for the ping. I'm not sure that being chair of a smaller state party counts for notability. Bearian (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete He fails WP:NPOL. Being the head of a state party isn't really notable. Of the sources shown above, I don't think any of them definitively show WP:GNG. Looking through the Arizona Capitol Times news blog, he's really only definitively mentioned in his GOP party chair win (where he got 600 votes) and only received about five or six articles on him during his entire tenure, all of which were routine "Republicans may oust Morrissey" and for his failed run for state parliament - and this is a specialty news source dedicated to local politics. His national news coverage is limited to the birther controversy. Not enough there. SportingFlyer T·C 23:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Neither being mayor of a small town nor being state-level organizational chair of a political party constitutes an automatic inclusion freebie under WP:NPOL, but the links shown above are not terribly compelling evidence that he passes WP:GNG in lieu: AZ Capitol Times is a local media outlet covering him in local-interest contexts; his name is not present in the Phoenix New Times article at all, but rather it's about an unrelated person named Bill Tonnesen; HuffPo #1 is just an aggregated reprint of the same Phoenix New Times article that fails to have his name in it; the Arizona Republic article is just about his ability to sing, not about anything relevant to whether he passes NPOL or not; the "NPR" link is not from NPR itself, but from NPR's local affiliate in Flagstaff, and is just a glancing namecheck of his existence in an article that is not substantively about him; and what's left (Politico and HuffPo #2) does not add up to enough coverage to get him over GNG in lieu of having to actually pass an SNG. GNG is not just "anybody who can show that they have surpassed an arbitrary number of mentions in any media outlet" — it also tests for the depth of how substantively any source is or isn't about him, the geographic range of how widely the coverage is spreading and the context of what they're getting covered for, and is not just automatically passed by every single person on earth who can show two media hits about their singing voice. Bearcat (talk) 18:17, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete nothing makes him default notable and sourcing is not deep enough to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:16, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 21:53, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agasha Temple of Wisdom

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This was supported by only one substantive source, a self-published book from within the group. WP:BEFORE finds mainly Wikipedia mirrors and directories / namechecks (a category which includes the sole remaining third-party source). That leaves only the one book source from the 50s which is stated to "prominntly" feature this, but I can't find any evidence that it's considered significant. It scores zero hits on Google Scholar, for example. Guy (Help!) 15:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. May add sources later: ^[1]^[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gilded Snail (talk • contribs) 05:49, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Lewis, James R. (March 2001). The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions. ISBN 9781615927388.
^ Lewis, James R.; Petersen, Jesper Aa (2014-07-16). Controversial New Religions. ISBN 9780199394364.

Didn't find the second one on my search, the first is basically justa directory so doesn't pass depth. I'm happy to keep as long as we can add context for its status - on the face of it "controversial" would be a reasonable assessment. Guy (Help!) 08:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I found the following references:

Leslie Shepard (Editor) Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology Volume 1 A-L, The Gale Group, 2001 ISBN: 978-0810385702
J. Gordon Melton Religious Bodies in the U.S.: A Dictionary, Routledge, 1992 ISBN: 978-0815308065 (although this is a listing only)
a writeup in: LeRoy E. Froom, Professor of Historical Theology, Andrews University, Occult Forces of Both East and West, Ministry, International Journal for Pastors
the Ministry article is based on: Gordon Collier Make Your Own World (3 volumes), Book of Destiny, 1955 (no ISBN and could find no information the publisher, Book of Destiny) - Epinoia (talk) 04:10, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Will also WP:SALT due to clear attempt to get around the salting of the usual spelling of the name. RL0919 (talk) 00:24, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sandeep Maheshwarii

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Sheer paid-for spam; evading salt-protection at Sandeep Maheshwari as well Draft:Sandeep Maheshwari.

All sources currently used are textbook unreliable or PR.

There's nothing in news apart from a few name-drops in long list of youtubers as a motivational speaker. (FWIW, The Indian Wire is not a RS.) Fails GNG and ANYBIO. ∯WBG^converse 17:32, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Cannot see that subject achieves notability. Eagleash (talk) 21:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Fails WP:GNG and it looks like WP:SPAM. -- Harshil ^{want to talk?} 06:58, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and SALT per nom. Rockphed (talk) 12:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:07, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Countdown to Armageddon

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Unnotable TV documentary that comes nowhere near WP:NFILM. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because they share the same lack of notice:

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These articles were all created by different users and should not be bundled in one nomination. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 12:38, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: I'm going to relist this as there has been specific dissent as to the bundling,
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Delete All - non-notable History Channel programs all lacking sources - no significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources - notability not established - Epinoia (talk) 04:29, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Diono

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NCORP. I looked at all the references in the article. They are links to the company's own website, reprints of press releases, routine coverage of funding and other business announcements, and reviews of some of the company's products. Nothing that talks about the company itself.

My own searching failed to turn up anything better. Searching for the company name brings up a large number of hits, but they're mostly just mentions of the company name on web sites that sell or review their products. I found some announcements of product recalls; I don't hold that against them, but it's not something that supports WP:N. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:06, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, I see there was a previous AfD on this, which I had some minor involvement in (relisted), and long since forgotten about. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete All the sources I can find are reviews of one of their products. I'm not sure that the reviews are in reliable sources. Either way, notability is not inherited. Rockphed (talk) 12:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Sources are limited to mentions in passing, local press and product reviews, nothing to suggest the company is significant and warrants an encyclopedic entry. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:16, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Tone 07:43, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Child Passenger Safety Week

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This is basically a PSA. For a worthy cause, but still a PSA and that's WP:NOT why we're here. Created by a WP:SPA as part of a walled garden of articles related to Diono, some of which I've already deleted under WP:G11. This one is a little better, so bringing it here. None of the sources in the article are WP:INDEPENDENT or WP:SECONDARY; they're all just announcements from the entities sponsoring the event. My own searching failed to come up with anything better. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I added some references from reliable sources. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 00:55, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep There are sufficient reliable sources in the article now, and overt PSA type language is gone. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:42, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:14, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mickey Robinson

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Not notable, no reliable sources. The sources are: the subject himself, YouTube, YouTube again, The Christian Broadcasting Network, and a credulous interview from 2001 in Charisma Magazine, and a small-town local interest piece from the Brunswick, OH Post.

Description above largely copied from Bishonen's PROD, which had two endorsements before the article's creator AcceptJesus2020 canceled it. AfD needs to look at this article. -Crossroads- (talk) 16:38, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Pinging Bishonen and Bearian since they prodded it and endorsed the prod respectively. -Crossroads- (talk) 16:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, this was not meant as a canvass, just to make sure that they saw this to take another look. I won't do it anymore. -Crossroads- (talk) 18:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The article creator removed the PROD template without any explanation on talk, which is their right.(Notability claims made in the removal edit summary by the creator.) As I said in the PROD, quoted in the nomination above, the sources are truly lousy, with no reliable secondary sources anywhere in sight. Bishonen | talk 18:18, 8 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Delete - as with the Prod, I don't see how this person is notable. Psychics and media (is that the correct plural ?) are dime a dozen. Bearian (talk) 21:05, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Mediums" seems more natural to me in this sense of the word, and Wiktionary thinks so too. Bishonen | talk 21:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:ANYBIO and there is nothing I can find that would satisfy WP:GNG. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(With some regret) Delete -- People who have visions during near death experiences commonly then devote themselves to religion. It is inevitable that only the subject can recount what happened, which means that it is impossible for there to be independent sources. It seems to follow that the subject could only have a WP article if notable for other reasons. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:16, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete per G3 by Reaper Eternal. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:13, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BreezeAgent

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No substantial secondary coverage of this eSports participant. power~enwiki (π, ν) 16:30, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete doesn't meet WP:GNG. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 16:37, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It's worse. The whole thing appears to be a hoax. His YouTube channel with a claimed 1+M views not only doesn't have a million views, it doesn't even have any videos published [13]. He did not compete in the Fortnite Fall Skirmish in 2018; here is Newsweek's coverage, which includes the roster for the "Rift Raiders" team that Bah claims to have been on [14]. The entire article is fabricated. I suspect this is a schoolboy's fantasy, and is should be speedily deleted as a blatant hoax. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 17:03, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @The Mirror Cracked: I restored the article back to before your changes. You almost gutted the article, and after you did that it was tagged as a7. At this point in the process, if you think the article is a hoax, then you should tag it as an g3. Otherwise, your comments here are sufficient for the community to evaluate the notability of the subject.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Bbb23: as it stands the article is a significant violation of WP:BLP and lacks any reliable sources. What "sources" it has are fakes. I've tagged it as a blatant hoax, as you suggested. Thanks, The Mirror Cracked (talk) 14:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Deleted as an obvious hoax. The "references" are all created by the same person on multiple websites that allow user submissions. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to APO Hiking Society. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:42, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1-2-3 (APO Hiking Society album)

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Non-notable album by barely-notable group. This seems to be another example of the age-old "notability by inheritance" error. Guy (Help!) 13:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to either APO Hiking Society, or possibly the 1-2-3 disambiguation page if admins deem this title to be a viable search term. As for this album, I can find no evidence that it was noticed by reliable media sources and all that can be found are the typical retail and streaming entries. Editors may also want to consider the notability of several of this band's other albums. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:35, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to APO Hiking Society. The topic does not have enough coverage to support a separate article, but it could be a viable search term. I think the article on the group would be the best redirect target, but I would not be entirely opposed to the disambiguation page if other editors agree with that. I would just imagine that any users looking for this particular album would find more information on the group's page rather than the disambiguation page. Aoba47 (talk) 17:41, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui ^雲 _水 11:33, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Athena Framework

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Not notable. There are no independent sources. Obmpeace (talk) 16:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Nom seems to be from account not here to build an enclopedia given contribution history only to raise AfDs claiming no independent sources whilst failing to do dilligent WP:BEFORE and explaining why relevant hits are appearing on the book link above.Djm-leighpark (talk) 06:17, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet WP:NSOFTWARE as it has not been discussed in reliable sources as significant in its particular field - lack of references inidcate the article does not meet WP:GNG as there is no significant coverage in multiple reliable independent secondary sources - Epinoia (talk) 01:05, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Lacks independent reliable sources. The hits that are coming up in the book search are for unrelated frameworks (A Technology CAD product and a older framework for software interoperability]. The software interoperability framework may be notable, but the ORM framework this article is about probably is not. You can rule out lots of the book hits because the publication dates of the books are before the release of the software discussed here. - MrOllie (talk) 01:25, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mz7 (talk) 00:42, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Dawar

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Doesn't fullfill wikipedia (WP:N) Zinzhanglee (talk) 15:32, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Delete. Fails WP:NMUSIC with no claim to notability (checking the Instagram page provided shows that he has just over 5000 followers, which is far from warranting a Wikipedia article), has no sources besides links to Spotify and Youtube, incredibly biased to the point where I believe this is an autobiography, and has plenty of grammatical issues, however that is not the basis for deletion. All in all, the article seems to be either an autobiography or a COI article; there is no claim to notability, and there are no reliable sources provided. Utopes (talk) 22:17, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Do not delete this article approve it please
My opinion is that please do not delet this article because thisa article is important and contain information which should be on Wikipedia page
Please Wikipedia team remove this claim of delection policy this is false claim please make this page love in Wikipedia— Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.12.209.142 (talk) 22:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - |no reliable sources for a BLP. There are many hundreds of thousands of young rappers who are under the age of 18, so the claims are specious. Bearian (talk) 15:17, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete:non notable musician Ceethekreator (talk) 17:51, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:GNG subject lacks significant coverage in independent reliable media. Fails WP:NARTIST due to lack of notable songs. IMHO not enough to pass any notability criteria.--DBig Xrayᗙ 07:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Most cool article should be live on Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.12.209.142 (talk) 14:11, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus to delete. – Joe (talk) 13:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Octavian Saiu

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Likely fails WP:NPROF. Creator disagrees (post on my talk page). Let's discuss. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:24, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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I received your message for proposed deletion of a page I created: Octavian_Saiu. Given the number of references on Google Scholar, as well as JSTOR, news, newspapers and general Google results, I believe Octavian Saiu meets the required criteria for notability. Saiu is recognised as the most important Romanian theatre critic and scholar of his generation. He is also one of the most significant cultural animators of the global theatrical scene, as chair and speaker at key events such as Sibiu International Theatre Festival, Edinburgh International Festival, Festival of Tokyo and many others. He has had a substantial impact outside academia in his academic capacity: through his books and multiple public talks, conferences and dialogues. If required, he may be presented as "public intelectual" and animator rather than "academic" or "theatre critic". Therefore, as requested, I have added new references regarding his rich activity in the Career section and various external links. Could you please advise on how to further improve the page? Also, I hope you agree that the proposed deletion template can now be removed.Allthedots (talk) 13:41, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 13:29, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All the coverage I am seeing is WP:MILL. I don't see a claim in the article that indicates passing WP:NPROF. Rockphed (talk) 12:19, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As stated above, the entire article presents Octavian Saiu's broad activity as the most important Romanian theatre critic and scholar of his generation. His published works are an essential source of information for students and professionals alike, as they offer a clear and comprehensive perspective of the global theatrical scene. His critical thinking has gained the utmost respect at an international level, a fact reflected in his constant presence at the most prestigious theatre festivals in the world (i.e. Edinburgh International Festival, Sibiu International Theatre Festival, Wuzhen International Theatre Festival) and in the conferences he has conducted (with renowned artists from all around the world). Moreover, in 2013, he received the Award of the Union of Theatre Artists (UNITER) - the highest honor in Romania for theatre critics. Based on the facts that are clearly referenced in the article, he fulfils the criteria: ”has had a substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity” and ”has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level” from WP:NPROF. Allthedots (talk) 16:48, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Speaking at conferences is business as usual for most academics, even many grad students speak at several during their studies. The awards he received don't have their own Wikipedia articles and there there is no indication they are actually not niche. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:44, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "Speaking at conferences" is one thing, speaking at conferences as keynote and plenary speaker is another. Also, to give talks in front of a paying audience - as he did recently in Tokyo - is definitely totally different than "business as usual": http://www.theaterx.jp/19/190913-190915p.php. The UNITER Award is the most important theatre award in Romania, and its description on Wikipedia or the lack thereof is not an essential argument. That applies to many national and even international theatre awards. As an example, let me refer to Interpretacie Festival in Katowice. It's a major theatre event in Poland - and incidentally Saiu was a jury member there, in 2014, together with Teresa Budzisz–Krzyzanowska and Grzegorz Jarzyna - but it doesn't exist on Wikipedia. So, should we discount the awards received there by important Polish theatre artists? Allthedots (talk) 18:54, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Allthedots: While it is not a definite test, whether something (a festival or an award) exists on Wikipedia or not is a decent test of whether something is important. If an award, for example, does not exist on Wikipedia, it is a good sign (of course, not fullproof) it is a very niche one, ditto for festival. Think about it: Wikipedia is almost 20 years old, if during that time nobody bothered to write up an entry on such items, the odds are good they are really very minor. Anyway, I can speak Polish and actually K-ce is my hometown. I looked at pl:Kategoria:Festiwale teatralne w Polsce, which lists few dozens of theater festivals in Poland, but it does not have an entry for the one you mention. Now, in all honestly, it probably is no less notable that some other entries there, and I see some sources one could use to stub it ([15], [16]), but this is hardly a word-class event. It is a minor, local event, and being a keynote speaker there is not something that contributes to notability. In fact, being a keynote speaker is IMHO not contributing to notability ever, not unless it generates significant coverage, and more than once to avoid WP:ONEEVENT type of issues. Śo, I am sorry, but no, I am still not convinced that the subject is doing anything above average. Again, as an academic, he needs to pass WP:NPROF, and that requires more than small number of citations and some very niche keynotes and such. Let's be realistic here: the subject is ~40 years old, that's way WP:TOOSOON in academia for someone to be generally considered important. There are exceptions, academia stars with major awards and news coverage, but I am afraid the subject is not one yet. Perhaps in 20 years? -_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:01, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Piotrus and Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus:

I am afraid that we do not have the same understanding of notability in the theatre field. So, let me sum up:
- the page Octavian Saiu presents the activity of a professional theatre critic and scholar, an activity that is very well referenced from external sources (not only Wikipedia as this is not a mandatory criteria).
- Saiu is recognised as one of the most important Romanian theatre critics and scholars - fact that is easily proven by the references I just mentioned - and as I said in the first place: If required, he may be presented as "public intellectual" and animator rather than "academic" or "theatre critic"
- as I also wrote before, he is one of the most significant cultural animators of the global theatrical scene, as chair and speaker at key events such as Sibiu International Theatre Festival, Edinburgh International Festival, Festival of Tokyo, Wuzhen Theatre Festival - these are not just key events, but some of the most important theatre festivals in the world.
- as written on the page he has hosted cultural conversations with Tim Robbins, Jin Xing, Neil LaBute, Ohad Naharin, Jaroslaw Fret, Mao Weitao, Stan Lai, Stanley Wells and many others - therefore, we cannot say that he was involved in just one event - the Festival in Katowice was an example which is actually not mentioned on the page, but it is an important festival where all the major Polish theatre directors participate.
- speaking of the published books, that are mostly in Romanian - unfortunately, there are very few digital archives in Romania, so the search for citations online does not represent a valid tool. Not to mention the fact that MA and PhD theses, which include references to his works, are not digitally archived either
- The International Association of Theatre Critics can be easily found here: https://aict-iatc.org/en/ - and it is a most important international organization with sections all over the world. IATC was UNESCO affiliated, and the number one partner of ITI - UNESCO - yes, there is no Wikipedia page, but their activity is essential in every large-scale theatre event.
- the UNITER Prize is the most important theatre award in Romania - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNITER.
- in terms of WP:TOOSOON, I don't think age is a criteria, just because someone is young that doesn't mean that he has not made an impact. His experience goes back for more than 15 years and that, I believe, is more important.

Being a theatre professional myself, I sincerely don't understand why all of this is not considered notable. Having witnessed many of Saiu's events (including book launches, conferences, dialogues), I must say that he is a living talent, highly appreciated by many at an international level, who has developed, very early, a unique career, that cannot be easily framed or reviewed through criteria. However, the number of reliable references is quite large.
With all due respect, this debate seems to be affected by many cultural prejudices, of different kinds.
Maybe, it would have been useful to offer me some advice on how to further improve the page, rather than dismantling all the arguments.

Thank you, Allthedots (talk) 10:43, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the end, this is your view. You say he is most important, most significant... but where are reliable sources saying so? If he is so important, other scholars should have written a monograph about him,or at least an article. We are not a place to assert one's notability, we just repeat what other sources say, and so far, they say very little about the subject. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:39, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 14:11, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Disagree with claim that sources are WP:MILL. I can't check sources in Romanian language. But his book production, his positions in the International Association of Theatre Critics (IATC) and what I interpret as significant involvement in international events abroad make him a quite likely pass for WP:GNG in Romania. Keep rationale partly leans on WP:BIAS. Article could be somewhat pruned with more arms-length coverage. Have no interest in the article myself. MrCleanOut (talk) 20:34, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @MrCleanOut: He does seem to be writing a lot of books. But their impact is very small, GScholar has best cited by 17, most by <5: [17]. As for International Association of Theatre Critics, I'd be more inclined to consider this if over the 20 years of Wikipedia history someone bothered to at least stub the entry for this organization. Lack of entry suggests (through is not a sure proof of) lack of significance and notability of such an organization. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:07, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Saiu passes the WP:GNG in my opinion based on the cited references. On a side note, the IATC (a branch on UNESCO) is the main professional organization of theater critics in the world, and is the parent organization of pretty much all major theater critics organizations internationally, including the American Theatre Critics Association.4meter4 (talk) 05:12, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not sure that being a "President of the Romanian Section – Theatre Studies of IATC" is sufficient here, for example being a temporary section head for the International Sociological Association wouldn't, IMHO, be sufficient to make a sociologist notable (that's to take an example from my field). I'll ping User:Randykitty and User:DGG who often have valuable input in the case of academic topics and their notability. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:16, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - The critics associations for each country are themselves notable because they basically act like unions in European countries because the theaters are owned and operated by the government. The critics association often gets involved in protecting the legal interests of critics when in comes intellectual property right, contract negotiations, protecting speech, legal aid, and works as a mediator when issues of nationally internal significance come up. So while the international organization is important, the individual national organizations are just as important because every country's laws are different and critics face different problems in different countries.4meter4 (talk) 11:30, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Even if I take your word that this is true for all countries (in my experience, mileage in this, i.e. activities of national chapters of such organizations, vary a lot), notability is not inherited. And he is not a president of the Romanian chapter but 'Adjunct Secretary General', which frankly sounds too verbose to suggest it is a serious position. And even if he was the president, it's not like such a position is sufficient to guarantee notability. In the end, it all boils down to simple questions like 'did he receive any independent press coverage in this role'? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:38, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep article suffers somewhat from WP:PEACOCK, but I suspect that might be due to recent changes following the deletion tagging. Applying WP:PROF exclusively somewhat unfair given subject's activities, aspects of WP:ENT are relevant (eg unique contribution), what pushes it over the line for me is the UNITER award - which qualifies as professional recognition by peers.--Goldsztajn (talk) 13:59, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Goldsztajn: The problem is that neither Award of the Union of Theatre Artists nor the Union of Theatre Artists appear significant. Red flag of not getting even a stub for close to 20 years of Wikipedia history even for the parent organization is an issue. But let's assume the organization is important (frankly, I'd think it likely is notable) - can you find a single source that declares "Award of the Union of Theatre Artists" to be significant? Google search for "Award of the Union of Theatre Artists" gives ~600 hits, and zero in newspapers or books... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, does not meet WP:PROF. His works have minimal citation counts, nor do I see reviews of his books. All academics publish, that is not what makes them notable. What makes them notable is if those publications are noted (which can be measured by reviews or citations). Being president of a local branch of an international organization is not really what PROF means with "highest elected position". Nor am I convinced that the awards listed are notable and that they are important enough to confer notability according to PROF. The article also suffers from some promotionalism and if it is kept then the list of publications should be shortened severely, WP is not ResearchGate or LinkedIn. --Randykitty (talk) 14:16, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete He can qualify as either an academic or as a dance professional-.In general, WP:PROF says we judge academics who work in the performing or creative arts according to the standards in their crreative filed, as they are not expected to produce peer-reviewed publications. But an academic in those fields who does have a research doctorate, and does produce academic work, will be judged as an academic. (There is also the intermediatestatus of working specifically as a theatre critic or cultural participant, which basically goes into the GNG category for want of anything specific. , Looking at the publications, he's an academic, writing not about current productions, but upon modern classic works and related theoretical topics. I have no basis for judging the importance of Bulgarian books. and periodicals, certainly not in this field. But WorldCat shows that the only book of his translated into English is in only 4 libraries. Google Scholar is hard to use in the humanities, as the numbers of citation to analyze is typically much lower. But the only item cited more than 7 times is a book The International Reception of Samuel Beckett, wherehe is only one of a numberof contributors, and the whole book, not his chapter, is what is being cited.

The "career" section of our article is promotional padding andname dropping, and would be judged as that for any person in any field in any country" Throughout the years, he has hosted cultural conversations with Tim Robbins[20], Jin Xing[21], Neil LaBute[22], Ohad Naharin[23], Jaroslaw Fret[24], Mao Weitao[25], Stan Lai[26], Stanley Wells[27] and many others." is an example. When it's borderline notability , promotionalism settles the issue.

This is one of the cases wheee someone can be important in the academic world within a particular country without being noticed elsewhere. Our standard view of this is that notability under WP:PROF is international, with a single world-wide standard. I'd make exceptions for those who are studying something intrinsic to a country or region where the only place or publication will be that country , but most of his work is on international topics--even Ionesco wrote in French, not Romanian. . DGG ( talk ) 21:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- I'll just add that it is possible for a scholar to be notable nationally, for example if his work would become subject of study by another Romanian scholars, even if not a peep of this would appear in English. For example, consider Leszek Gondek, who IMHO is notable because some other Polish scholars published a chapter about him in some book (even if it is super niche work). This, nonetheless, shows that some other scholars in the field consider work of another significant. Nothing like this is, however, present here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Piotrus and Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus: @Randykitty and Randykitty: I have specified very clearly that we are not merely talking about a typical academic, but a theatre critic and intellectual who has been a driving force in many prominent international cultural events. If we think about it, Neil LaBute or Tim Robbins would not accept to have public dialogues with just anybody. Also, not all of his activities are listed online. Why? Because theatre as a field is about "here and now", and interest for online archiving is often minimal. Furthermore, not all that is valuable is quantifiable in terms of online quotations and links. You also know that the opposite perspective is equally valid: so many things that are temporarily covered by dozens of websites may simply not be worthy of substantial attention.

Regarding his role in the International Association of Theatre Critics, he is the Adjunct Secretary General of the international organization and the President of the Romanian Section – Theatre Studies of IATC - so, he holds both an international and national position.
As stated above, he meets the WP:GNG criteria - maybe another category should be chosen, like ”cultural animator”, for example, instead of Academic, taking into consideration the specificity of his profile.Allthedots (talk) 12:28, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Please refer to WP:ITSIMPORTANT and Wikipedia:Verifiability not truth. Wikipedia is not the place to promote someone, or make the case they are important. If as you say, theater studies don't publish verifiable documents, well, they are not going to be represented in Wikipedia until they decide to change their attitude. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:03, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. A number of sources are clearly available, providing some level of reliable coverage, but reasonable uninvolved editors seem to strongly differ on exactly whether there is enough. WP:BIO does not ask for a specific number of sources, but asks for "multiple", and specifically "if the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". There is evidently good-faith disagreement over whether this threshold is usefully met here. ~ mazca ^talk 09:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Todd Graves (entrepreneur)

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non-notable business person. Looks like he appeared on one episode of a TV series, founded a restaurant chain based in Baton Rouge, and has received the local coverage expected from that kind of local notability valereee (talk) 10:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep this guy is very notable in the state of Louisiana and passes WP:BASIC with multiple substantial coverages. He seems to be notable on multiple subjects ranging from TV, books, restaraunt awards. ^[1] The guy has also been featured in two books. ^[2] ^[3] According to his IMDB profile he's been in 3 TV shows. ^[4] He's also apparently the top CEO in America. ^[5] This guy is all over the place, he apparently even gave Chuck Norris $100,000 for his charity. ^[6] The Louisiana governor regularly mentions him on the louisiana.gov website. ^[7] He partnered with Southern University to donate over 1 million dollars in academic scholarships. ^[8] His coverage is not limited to Louisiana. He has substantial media coverage in Texas, Arkansas and for some reason... Hawaii. ^[9] His business is operating in several countries including United States, Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates with over 400 restaraunts. DavidDelaune (talk) 04:29, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment One more thing... if I were born in the year 2050 and read an encyclopedia about this era... I might want to know about someone that owned 453 restaraunts. DavidDelaune (talk) 04:54, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  DavidDelaune, none of those sources look like proving notability. The food channel one is an interview, the Orlov book is self-published, the textbook is possibly significant coverage in a reliable source, so that's a SINGLE support for notability; we need at minimum three. IMDb is crowdsourced. What is QSR magazine, and what is a Glassdoor Employee's Choice award? Whatever they are, that is from a Raising Cane's press release; it states at the bottom that the info hasn't been verified. IMDb again, not usable. louisiana.gov is a bare mention in a story about Lemonade Day. Southern Uni's is a bare mention. Hawaii News Now (not sure what that is?) is again a bare mention, and btw it's just an apparent reprint of a Raising Cane's press release. None of these go to proving notability. --valereee (talk) 13:10, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I'd not heard of him until this AfD, but not hearing of some person is a bad reason for deletion. Bearian (talk) 18:22, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Todd Graves 6". Food Channel. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ How you can reach wealth by using proven millionaires ideas. Zoran Orlov. pp. 86–. ISBN 978-953-95909-0-9.
^ William M. Pride; Robert J. Hughes; Jack R. Kapoor (1 January 2012). Foundations of Business. Cengage Learning. pp. 130–. ISBN 1-111-58015-4.
^ "Todd Graves". IMDB. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ "Raising Cane's Todd Graves Named a Top CEO in America". qsrmagazine.com. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ Marcy de Luna. "Raising Cane's donates $100,000 to Chuck Norris' Kickstart Kids organization". IMDB. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ "Gov. Edwards and Todd Graves Kick Off Ninth Annual Lemonade Day". gov.louisiana.gov. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ "Raising Cane's Announces $1 Million Partnership with Southern University". Southern University. Retrieved 2019-09-02.
^ "Raising Cane's offers Hawaii chicken lovers a new option". Hawaii News Now. Retrieved 2019-09-02.

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Delete Not notable businessman. Zinzhanglee (talk) 15:43, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both businessman and business appear to be notable. Page needs additional sourcing but theres enough to deter deletion. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 05:05, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Horse Eye Jack, which three sources do you think prove notability? I'm just not seeing it. --valereee (talk) 19:15, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, per DavidDelaune and Horse Eye Jack. = paul2520 (talk) 18:49, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paul2520, which of DD's sources look like proving notability to you? HEJ didn't provide any. --valereee (talk) 19:18, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Valereee the The Food Channel source, the Houston Chronicle site, the text book, the Hawaii News Now source, and http://gov.louisiana.gov, to name a few. I agree with Hyperbolick below; where does it say three sources are needed? = paul2520 (talk) 00:54, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and redirect to Raising Cane's Chicken Fingers. The subject has done lots of stuff but our notability guidelines are very clear and the sources do not provide the necessary significant, in-depth coverage in independent RS to meet WP:BIO. However, redirects are cheap and one would be helpful. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 (talk) 20:18, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. No rule requires three sources to prove notability. Can just as easily be from the aggregate of many more minor sources. Hyperbolick (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
comment a possible source: [18] (yes I know the article is mostly about the business, but there's useful biographical information also) 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 21:01, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

78.26, I'd actually call that a second sigcov in rs, along with the textbook. --valereee (talk) 10:29, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 14:37, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Conectiva

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Too few sources availableto sustain a valid neutral article about a barely notable software company. damiens.rf 03:40, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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delete It looks more like a Linux distro than a company, but still it's short-lived, some years ago and distinctly lacking evidence of notability. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- 10 years is not that short, and before this AFD nomination in Special:PermaLink/887650564 the article was more explanatory. Uncle G (talk) 09:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd seen that deletion, and although it doesn't change my views on the notability of Conectiva, I did consider either reverting it or !voting as a procedural keep here, as no nominator should be blanking so much of an article as part of the process of nominating it.

But still, I don't see this as a notable Linux distro. Many distros existed and that was recorded,[19] but it's not enough to make them notable. Maybe (which your LWN article claims, and I certainly hadn't considered) it's all about who worked for Conectiva, and you could get an article out of that, or at least a section in Mandriva Linux or Mandriva. But otherwise I'm still with the view that it's, "just another Red Hat clone". Andy Dingley (talk) 18:10, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A mere 90 seconds' search brought me to Jang 2006, pp. 152–153 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFJang2006 (help) where the aquisition by Mandrake to form Mandriva is documented, as are things like what this is and some of the design decisions that went into it, all blanked by from the article by the nominator immediately before nomination at AFD. Searching further finds Danesh & Jang 2006, p. 800 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDaneshJang2006 (help) which confirms the name of the company producing the software and some of the software's distinguishing features. Clearly zero searching for sources went on by both commenters here so far. I would certainly have expected M. Dingley to have turned up the likes of Bodnar 2003 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFBodnar2003 (help). And that's not even looking for stuff in Portuguese. Uncle G (talk) 09:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Jang, Michael H. (2006). Linux Patch Management: Keeping Linux Systems Up to Date. Bruce Perens' Open Source. Prentice Hall Professional. ISBN 9780132366755.
- Danesh, Arman; Jang, Michael (2006). Mastering Linux (2nd ed.). John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 9780782152777.
- Bodnar, Ladislav (2003-04-30). "A Look at Conectiva Linux". Linux Weekly News.

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Delete: It lacks any actual content for which anyone cares. One must apply common sense in these matters. flowing dreams (talk page) 07:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Would you say the same about its state before this AfD? [20] Andy Dingley (talk) 10:34, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The version you are showing tries to demonstrate the impact of the company on the world around it, but it lacks source. Without source, we will never know the truth of it. flowing dreams (talk page) 11:43, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is unclear if Uncle G has explicitly !voted to Keep in this AfD, but his research has revealed two references that meet the criteria for establishing notability as per WP:NCORP. Both the "Linux Patch Management" book and the lwn.net article provide in-depth information on the company. Topic therefore meets GNG and WP:NCORP. HighKing⁺⁺ 11:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The 'research' mentioned above does not discuss how significant the coverage of the company is in detail, but gives the impression it simply confirms the company was mentioned in passing for its business as usual/press release type activity. Nothing presented so far suggests it would pass WP:NORG. PS. I did, in fact, look at the first book source, [21], which mentions the company several times, but in passing. The book does not discuss the company, just talks a bit about the product (code) it produced. If this represents the best sources we have, this is very much a failure. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I don't think there are sufficient reliable sources to meet the "significant coverage" standard described at Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Edgeweyes (talk) 20:45, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:12, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Greater Valley School, Greater Noida

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Fails WP:GNG. Not major alumni from the school yet and the page doesn't cite any type of the citations to establish the notability. Harshil ^{want to talk?} 04:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No adequate sourcing found and no indication of notability. AmericanAir88^(talk) 19:59, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment, yeah well with their German Club and their Robotics Club and so on, they are learning more than your kids are, and they are gonna eat your lunch. --Doncram (talk) 01:00, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I understand that there are many schools in India and there may not be adequate news coverage on each of them. However, quite a few schools in Delhi/NCR region are often reported in newspapers, usually in context of some student activities or if they have some well known students. For example, for this school I found Noida’s Arjun Bhati wins third junior golf world title, 14-year-old Noida golfer Arjun Bhati: My target is to be World No 1 and win an Olympic medal for India. I believe the school is also recognised by CBSE (can be cross checked from the website)--DreamLinker (talk) 20:22, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

n number of schools have been recognised by CBSE. Here, you are failed to provide rationale on the basis of Wikipedia policy. Alumni of this school have not been participated in olympic yet. Plus, trival mention doesn’t pass WP:GNG. Your argument more seemed like WP:IJUSTLIKEIT. — Harshil ^{want to talk?} 04:26, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, let me explain my rationale. I think if a school has well known students (not only alumni), that is an indication that there could be more coverage available, particularly in non-English media. Activities of various schools are often reported in the newspaper (particularly the "city" pages) though these resources may not always be available online. I am reluctant to delete articles like this. Another factor I consider (to guess if coverage would be available) is how long the school has been established and the location (rural or urban). In this particular case, I looked at Hindi sources after DBigXray mentioned Navbharat Times and I can find quite a lot of news reports which I think justifies keeping this article. I will add the sources shortly.--DreamLinker (talk) 08:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The mentioning of CBSE recognition is to ensure the school is genuine. If a school doesn't have recognition from the education board, I am usually reluctant to keep the article.--DreamLinker (talk) 08:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep in addition to the source and rationale put forth by DreamLinker, I would add another coverage of the school in Navbharat Times, (Noida News: ग्रेटर वैली स्कूल में हुआ समारोह का आयोजन - celebration held in greater valley school) It is a senior secondary school and more SIGCOV can be found in Hindi language media. The existing sources confirm this assumption. --DBig Xrayᗙ 07:45, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Some more sources in Hindi (apologies as I don't have enough time to properly format these) ^[1]^[2] ^[3],^[4]^[5] ^[6].--DreamLinker (talk) 08:35, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DreamLinker, Formatted it for you.--DBig Xrayᗙ 16:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Noida News: अनमोल और यशिका बने मिस्टर व मिस ग्रेटर वैली - anmol and yashika made mr. and miss greater valley". Navbharat Times. February 2, 2019.
^ "बच्चों ने फैशन में जलवे दिखाए". livehindustan.com.
^ "कैंब्रिज व ग्रेटर वैली स्कूल को मिली शानदार जीत". Dainik Jagran.
^ "क्रिसमस कार्निवाल में स्कूली बच्चों ने की मस्ती". Amar Ujala.
^ "ग्रेटर वैली ने दी एएसएन स्कूल को शिकस्त". jagran.com.
^ "Noida News: मुकुंद ने ग्रेटर वैली स्कूल को दिलाई बड़ी जीत - mukund congratulates greater valley school". Navbharat Times. April 17, 2019.

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Keep Seems notable and can be improved.Zinzhanglee (talk) 15:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - non-notable run of the mill school, nothing to establish notability and distinguish it from a million other schools; WP:MILL - coverage is run of the mill for school activities, no in-depth coverage of the school itself - does not meet WP:NSCHOOL or WP:ORGCRITE which require significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources with an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the school - Epinoia (talk) 23:49, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. I'm just going to say that neither side gave compelling, policy-based arguments. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 21:51, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Arne Senstad

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Just being a coach is not enough. Slatersteven (talk) 17:10, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, invalid reason given for the desired deletion. Geschichte (talk) 19:04, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is all they seem to be notable for, What else dose the article say about them? They are Norwegian, again this is not a reason for them to be notable.Slatersteven (talk) 07:06, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no demonstration of notability in article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:39, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, He's a coach of a handball national team, because of this he's notable. Additionally he was coach of an elite club team. --Malo95 (talk) 18:30, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I don't know how much weight IP views carry but, FWIW, this is a clear fail of WP:BIO lacking the substantial multiple coverage in reliable sources required. The first 'Keep', above, is invalid as it gives no justification for keeping and the second 'keep' is just plain wrong. There is nothing in WP:NSPORTS that says that a coach of a handball national team is inherently notable. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 (talk) 00:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I did a little research about him and after this it's clear for me that he's notable. He played professional handball in Norway and Switzerland, was in the national team and coached professional teams. Furthermore there are news coverage about him in Norway, Poland, Switzerland and Germany.--Malo95 (talk) 13:35, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Doesn't seem notable for inclusion in wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zinzhanglee (talk • contribs) 15:46, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Zinzhanglee: Why? Please can you sare your reasons? And not only say no. --Malo95 (talk) 08:37, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete My lack of Norwegian and Polish language skills caused me to need computer translations. I did get a lot of ghits, but the translations all seemed to be either typical sports reporting or about his becoming the head coach of the Polish women's national handball team. I don't see anything as a player or coach that would show he meets WP:NSPORT and I would deem the coverage of his becoming Poland's head coach as WP:BLP1E. I might feel differently if he had played or coached at the world championships or Olympics. If someone can provide some other significant coverage I would consider changing my vote. Papaursa (talk) 04:08, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:08, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Upsilon Sigma Phi leaks scandal

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This incident initially occurred Nov 20, 2018, and caused a minor scandal in the Philippines. There was a two-week flurry of outraged press coverage as everyone and their grandmother rushed to comment on the situation, and then - nothing. I searched Philippine news sites like Rappler, PhilStar, Inquirer.net, and ABS-CBN news and came up with basically nothing new since the initial incident. That tells me that there is no lasting effect to this scandal, and that it should not have its own standalone article.

As it stands, the article is half a tabulated list of nasty comments, which is inappropriate since we are not an indiscriminate collection of information. The other half is a list of reactions from people, including individual non-notable fraternity members. We do not exist as a repository for reactions to events.

Full disclosure: I tagged this for merge to Upsilon Sigma Phi in April, but the discussion didn't go anywhere. Having circled back to the article and realizing how limited the coverage really was, I've changed my opinion about the appropriateness of the merge. In my opinion, a significant merge would constitute undue weight relative to the degree of coverage the leaks received. I think the summary already present at the USP article is sufficient coverage without becoming overly focused on a single negative event.

Pinging Naraht and Koakaulana, who commented on the merge request, and DGG, who did some work on the article during its creation in November. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 15:24, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge (expand somewhat the entry in the parent article) I agree with the indiscriminate list, at most, descriptions of the type of comments in the newsmedia. If one of the sources consider them Misogynistic, list it that way. Given the level of converage at the time which was National, I think there is more information, if only the reaction from significantly notable Upsilonians which needs to be kept. By comparison, this generated considerably more coverage than the Theta Tau at Syracuse issue, but considerably less than the Trijicon bible quotes. (Also, I'm much happier to see this in this context than a SLA trying to completely delete the issue from Wikipedia.Naraht (talk) 16:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
delete or, possibly restore to my version, [22], and protect or instead of protection ban the user who restored my deletions from the article. DGG ( talk ) 00:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. People in the Philippines can be very passionate, but they are quick to forgive and move on too. This incident had no lasting effect. Filipinos moved on. I think there was a "boys will boys" attitude towards this incident. In addition, the country is patriarchal and very Catholic so the misogny and anti-Muslim part of the controversy never got much long term traction. Wikipedia's Filipino values article indicates: "Women in the Philippines are expected to become caring and nurturing mothers for their own children. Female Filipinos are also expected to lend a hand in household work. They are even anticipated to offer assistance after being married. On the other hand, Filipino men are expected to assume the role of becoming the primary source of income and financial support of his family." In other words, traditional gender roles and a more patriarchal society exists in the Philippines and feminism is less influential than in the West. So the misogny part of the controversy didn't have enough passion about it to be a defining moment in Filipino history/culture. In addition, Wikipedia's article Filipino psychology article indicates: "Pakikisama and Pakikipagkapwa: Smooth Interpersonal Relationship, or SIR, as coined by Lynch (1961 and 1973). This attitude is primarily guided by conformity with the majority." In other words, there is more of a live and let live culture in the Philippines and less culture war like in the West.Knox490 (talk) 02:57, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- How does any of this related to whether the Wikipedia article should be kept or deleted?Naraht (talk) 13:31, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As per Wikipedia notability rules for events, although we may want to summarize the quoted statements, rather than quote them directly. The event has had lasting effects on and is part of a pattern of Fraternity behavior and politics in the Philippines; it's geographical impact is arguably large given that UP is the Philippines' National university, with members consistently occupying high government positions; there's clearly both depth of coverage and diversity of coverage based on coverage by interaksyon, abs cbn, the star and the inquirer. - Koakaulana (talk) 00:45, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to L.G. Balfour Company. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:43, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Celestrium

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As a trademarked product (steel alloy) - should probably at most be a subsection on L.G. Balfour Company. Setting aside the fact that the second paragraph has some apparenty COPYVIO with https://www.reference.com/beauty-fashion/celestrium-a04f2ef0decf191d . I also don't think this article will ever be more than a stub. Ich (talk) 11:25, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to L.G. Balfour Company - Epinoia (talk) 23:53, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - worthwhile content to add (post copyright considerations), but an unneeded fork. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

American Working Red

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Completely fails GNG and V, zero RS. Cavalryman (talk) 11:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, no evidence of notability – no verifiable hits on Gbooks, no hits at all on Gnews. Appears to be an invention of the American Preservation Dog Registry, a wholly non-notable organisation (no verifiable hits on Gbooks, no hits at all on Gnews). Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - there is no method to the madness of all these new registries and fictitious dog breeds popping up on the internet - the here today, gone tomorrow types - most of which are simply marketing and trying to get recognition for new dog types that long established, reputable breed registries refuse to recognize because they do not qualify as purebred. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 14:52, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Non-notable, not recognized by any reputable registry. oknazevad (talk) 18:31, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I concur with the editors above. William Harristalk 09:31, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - For all the reasons above. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:21, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Brazilian Monster Pit

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Completely fails GNG and V, zero RS. Cavalryman (talk) 11:19, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:RELIABLE, WP:VERIFY, and one of the two cited "registries", the website ibcdogs.org, does not claim that it is a registry but a dog breeder. William Harristalk 09:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - none of the sources qualify as RS - we must not allow WP to be used to promote fictitious breeds. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 23:41, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I agree with the comments recorded here. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk)
Delete - Unable to find any decent sources on the subject. Plus, I'm not sure that even were reliable sources available, that the subject is noteworthy enough to merit it's own article. ZBM-2 (talk) 09:30, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 00:57, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gerard Barba

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It's totally an autobiography. It contains unreliable sources and doesn't have significant coverage. Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG. Masum Reza^📞 11:18, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Hello, we strongly disagree. There are reliable sources in the press (in French) that are cited. In addition, Gerard Barba's partner, Bruce Craig, has a page in Wikipedia, so it should be a reliable source. Together they sold their company to Apax Partners. It was the first major private equity transaction since the fall of Lehman Brother. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GerardBarba (talk • contribs) 17:09, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
GerardBarba, who is "we"? Shared accounts aren't permitted. creffett (talk) 00:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, apparently not notable. He gets about a dozen verifiable hits on Gnews, almost all relating to the possibility that he might have bought a rugby club; he didn't. One verifiable hit on Gbooks relates to the same (non-)event. Blatant COI/autobiography problems, too. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:49, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete given it's unambiguous advertising that would require a fundamental rewrite to be policy compliant. There's a reason that we have rules around COI and it's because the ability of such an editor to write neutrally is going to be compromised even with the best of intentions. Note that this is a delete purely on these grounds, which if it weren't at AfD would have lead me to nominate for speedy deletion, and I have made no assessment of notability. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the supposedly significant coverage in reliable sources doesn't exist. There might be more coverage out there, but it is unlikely. Rockphed (talk) 12:10, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete creating articles on oneself is a total violation of Wikipedia rules which we must act to stop.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:59, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:35, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Ambedkar Institute of Careers and Courses

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One of the numerous state-government initiatives. Fails WP:NOTNEWS. ∯WBG^converse 10:59, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Coverage isn't substantial; what little there is is brief, routine, news coverage of a government announcement. At best, this is a case of WP:TOOSOON; if the policy comes to something, there may eventually be substantive sources about it. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete'. How is a local cram course notable? Bearian (talk) 15:19, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 14:26, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Working Pit Bulldog

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Article fails GNG and V, none of the sources come close to being RS. Cavalryman (talk) 10:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:RELIABLE, WP:VERIFY, and the dog appears to be a marketing opportunity by the organisation promoting it, because these types of dogs were once classified as APBTs but now fall outside the new APBT breed standard, so they classified them as a new "breed". William Harristalk 09:57, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - another case of WP being used to market/promote a fictitious breed. In full agreement with William Harris in that it fails our core content policy, WP:V. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 23:44, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - A pitiful attempt to bypass our standards. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:12, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 00:56, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mehar Baba Charitable Trust

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Fails WP:NCORP by a few many miles. Nil significant coverage in any reliable source. ∯WBG^converse 10:16, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, fails WP:GNG and WP:NCORP. I have searched Google, Google scholar, Google books, and news: Mehar Baba Charitable Trust is mentioned in several reliable sources but I found no significant coverage. JimRenge (talk) 11:52, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, as above. I am unable to find substantive coverage in reliable secondary sources. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:42, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mz7 (talk) 09:28, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of Muslims in business

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Per WP:LISTCRUFT. Störm (talk) 09:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. For countries with significant Muslim majorities, this amounts to just a random list of businesspeople and is of no value. There is possibly some interest in having a list of Muslims in business in countries where this is unusual (though even this is doubtful). If such a list were to be created we would need solid evidence that everyone included was in fact a Muslim by self-identification and not just by heritage. For example there’s nothing to support the inclusion of Zaha Hadid in this list. Mccapra (talk) 10:33, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. What's next, a list of left-handed civil engineers? Agree with WP:LISTCRUFT. Simon Wright (talk) 13:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Overly broad article; with a fifth of the world's population being Muslim there is little keeping this from being an indiscriminate list. This is virtually all business people from many countries and it is not worth listing in this fashion. Reywas92^Talk 23:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not enough solid sources backing inclusion and no strong evidence this is looked at as a cohesive group.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:48, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of Muslims in entertainment and the media

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Per WP:LISTCRUFT. Obviously no indication that Islam has an effect on their lives or helped them in their careers in entertainment. Fails list purpose. Störm (talk) 09:23, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not ready to take a position yet, but just out of curiosity, which of the 12 reasons for something to fall afoul of WP:LISTCRUFT do you think this falls under? Cause I don't really see this as falling under any of them. PraiseVivec (talk) 11:30, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep listcruft is an essay not a policy. While it's fine to include it in your reasoning for nominating an article for deletion, it should not be your sole argument. We have numerous lists of Muslims. See Lists of Muslims. The article is well sourced and is not too long. I see no reason at all for deletion. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:42, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral comment Please expand your deletion reason for all three of these noms; WP:CRUFT has specifically been called out in the past as an inappropriate deletion rationale, especially alone as the only reason. Nate • (chatter) 16:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment At the moment I'm inclined to keep. Unlike some of the other lists of Muslims we've recently considered, this list refers to a more clearly definable set of people and is not indiscriminate in its nature; it also appears that every entry is individually sourced. In my view the section on Literature and Art should be removed as these don't really qualify as entertainment or media, but apart from that I'm waiting for someone to explain clearly what's wrong with the article as it stands. Mccapra (talk) 10:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as for the reasons above I can’t see what’s wrong with it. Mccapra (talk) 06:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I don't think WP:LISTCRUFT applies here. Mujinga (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - what does being a Muslim have to do with being an entertainer? - if they converted to another religion would they stop being entertainers? - an arbitrary category; WP:INDISCRIMINATE - WP:LISTPEOPLE says "Special care must be taken when adding living persons to lists based on religion" (see also WP:BLPCAT and WP:CAT/R) - Epinoia (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Epinoia:. Why does being a Muslim have to have something to do with entertainment? How is this list more indiscriminate than List of Hungarian Nobel laureates or List of Catholic clergy scientists? Here again you say that ‘special care must be taken.....’ implying that it hasn’t when it looks to me like it has. Mccapra (talk) 05:50, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

-see Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#What about article x? and Wikipedia:Other stuff exists - Epinoia (talk) 14:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

-The onus is on the nominator and on those supporting deletion to show that notability is not met. ‘What does being a Muslim have to do with being an entertainer?‘ is not a rationale for deletion. Mccapra (talk) 20:48, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, how it is a notable cross categorisation that they are also famous entertainers or media personalities? Ajf773 (talk) 09:04, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ajf773: a false argument since nobody is proposing a list of a billion or more people. There are perhaps some thousands of Muslims in the music and entertainment industry so we’d likely end up with something larger than List of Jewish American entertainers. The issue is whether the people on the list are otherwise notable, and whether their religious views can be reliably sourced. Mccapra (talk) 06:05, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish-American is more of a categorisation as it deals with a minority religious group in that country. In this AfD, the list criteria is a global categorisation. If we listed only the notable ones, the list would be unwieldy and indiscriminate. Ajf773 (talk) 19:55, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for reasons already given by User:JDDJS above. Maestro2016 (talk) 19:50, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Indiscriminate list. This would basically include all entertainers in Muslim countries. We don't have "Jewish entertainers" or "Christian entertainers" either. Following Ajf773, I could imagine a category "Muslim American entertainers" or Muslim Hungarian entertainers, but a worldwide list of Muslim entertainers is not manageable. In addition, for many of these people, being Muslims will hardly affect their performances, so I doubt even the usefulness of national lists. --Randykitty (talk) 21:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mz7 (talk) 09:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of Muslim leaders and politicians

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Per WP:LISTCRUFT. Störm (talk) 09:21, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Massive catch-all with no real scope. I think there would be value in having a list of Muslim politicians from countries without a Muslim majority as this is a much smaller and definable set, but sources would be required to show that each individual entry was Muslim by self-identification and not just by heritage. Mccapra (talk) 10:38, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As noted, there are many countries in the world (Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Syria, etc.) where a large majority of politicians and leaders would simply be expected to be Muslim — meaning that in those countries it violates WP:INDISCRIMINATE, while trying to keep their sections manageable by imposing some arbitrary standard beyond being a Muslim politician would violate WP:ARBITRARY. Mccapra has a point that a list of Muslim politicians in non-Muslim majority countries might have more value — but including politicians from countries where most politicians would simply be expected to be Muslim approaches total unmaintainability. Bearcat (talk) 17:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per Bearcat and the list is indiscriminate. "Leader" is too vague of a term to pinpoint all the entries who fall under this over-extending umbrella. Utopes (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As I said before, the thousands in Category:Pakistani politicians, Category:Indonesian politicians, etc. could be imported in mass to List of Muslim leaders and politicians, making this even more of an indiscriminate list. Perhaps a well-sourced article appending "outside the Muslim world" could be a legitimate way to do this. Reywas92^Talk 23:18, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per nomination. --SalmanZ (talk) 17:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and draftify Delete per nom and per Bearcat. Since there is encyclopedic value in a list of Muslim politicians from a specific country (specifically those from non-Muslim majority countries), sending the information to draft space preserves the information currently contained here until country-specific lists are created. --Enos733 (talk) 01:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete in many places this will be a list of all leaders and politicians, some places going back 100s of years.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, how it is a notable cross categorisation that they are also famous political figures? Ajf773 (talk) 09:05, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:48, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paško Rakić (politician)

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Not meeting WP:NPOL. Just being a Deputy Mayor of a city is not enough to demonstrate notability. Available online references about the subject are mostly from local news agencies. Not meeting WP:GNG. Hitro talk 08:23, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:RS. Just being a Deputy Mayor of the twelfth largest city in a country is not enough for a Wikipedia article. A majority of sources are from local news agencies, not from major, national news agencies, as required. LefcentrerightTalk 10:23, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Deputy mayor of a city in the 30K population range is not a role that guarantees passage of WP:NPOL #2 just because the person exists — it's a role that would require him to be the subject of a lot more nationalized reliable source coverage than this is actually showing. Two of the four footnotes are just photographs of him, not substantive prose content about him, and the two which are actual prose journalism are purely local — but every municipal councillor in every city on earth can always show two pieces of journalism in their local media, so that does not represent enough coverage to hand him a GNG-based exemption from having to pass NPOL. GNG, as always, is not just "anybody who's gotten their name into their local newspaper(s) twice for any reason whatsoever": it tests the sources for volume and depth and geographic range and context, not just for n>1. Bearcat (talk) 15:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
'Delete - fails my standards and based on our recent past practice should be deleted. There's insufficient evidence of general notability. FWIW, I've been to Croatia twice, and have never heard of this town. Bearian (talk) 15:22, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:RS --SalmanZ (talk) 22:11, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:48, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Medi Script

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I recently put this up for PROD but it was contested by another editor. This article has been unsourced since 2007. The only things I can find online are Wikipedia mirrors so unless anyone can find anything to show otherwise my conclusion is it’s not notable. Mccapra (talk) 07:06, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy delete. Unreferenced, fails GNG. I don't see anything relevant in Scholar/Books. Contesting this should be considered borderline vandalism; I'd have expected better from the otherwise very experienced editor who deprodded it... :/ --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I'm not even convinced that this supposed credit system existed. This article might be a hoax. Rockphed (talk) 12:02, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:48, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Photo-quality printing

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I PRODed this article but another editor disagreed. The reasons for deletion are: “photo-quality printing’ is a descriptive advertising term and not the name of a recognised process. The article is essay-like original research and the talk page shows that there have been major concerns about the reliability of the content since it was written in 2007. It has no sources and while sources could perhaps be found to support individual statements in the article (or to correct them), the topic as a whole is essentially as meaningless as ‘restaurant-quality cooking’ or ‘F1-quality driving.’ Mccapra (talk) 06:59, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - No citations, but more importantly, no real reason to exist. So it's just printing that is a bit better than other printing? Like Mccapra said, this is an advertising term that isn't grounded in any technical definition and doesn't qualify as encyclopedic content. I was surprised to find the term in a scientific paper, but it's a paper published by Hewlett-Packard Laboratories and even there the term is only used to describe "print images that are comparable, in terms of image quality and image permanence, to the traditional prints produced on silver halide photographic paper".^[1] So it's not a function, it's not a technical process, it's just good printing.PraiseVivec (talk) 11:52, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, essentially per nom. I'm not seeing anything here that can't be covered at existing articles on related topics; and I'm not seeing anything after a quick search suggesting this is a coherent topic distinct from existing articles. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:27, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. It's not unanimou, but there is consensus that the sourcing is not good enough for an article. The text can be userfied and/or restored if more sources appear. I'd like to commend everybody for the scholarly and constructive discussion. Sandstein 22:08, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

John Gambril Nicholson

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A schoolteacher who wrote some "love" poetry about the boys he taught. The references do not establish notability; all but one either do not mention this person or only do so in passing. The nature of the Love in earnest source is unclear and it could not be followed up on, but it seems it may just be a brief mention. A search for new sources did not turn up "significant coverage in multiple...secondary sources that are reliable" as WP:NBIO requires. -Crossroads- (talk) 06:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Timothy D'Arch Smith's work on Nicholson appears to be fringe scholarship. D'Arch Smith was a contributor[23] to the International Journal of Greek Love(AfD), published by the paederasty advocate and convicted sex offender Walter H. Breen. According to this article by D.H. Mader (himself a NAMBLA supporter, "boy-love" advocate, and photographer of nude children), Breen first advanced the notion of a "Victorian Paidophilic Poetaster Clique" in 1964 and D'Arch Smith built on the idea in his 1970 work Love in Earnest, coining the term "Uranian poetry" (here using "uranian" not in the Ulrichs sense, but as a stand-in for "paederastic"). Google snippet searches of Love in Earnest yield lines which, devoid of context, appear to be fringe advocacy, like:
- (on child pornography): "Photographs of the orgies held on the ship, a little dulled by time and persistent copying, still circulate in some coteries."
- "If there is a tragedy in Uranian affections, it is not the crime of a man's preventing a boy's development of his natural instincts towards the opposite sex, but the hopelessly onesided adoration of the man for the boy whose young and immature mind cannot intellectually or emotionally ..."
- "It must be confessed, too, that there is a certain freshness in the Uranians' insistence on the superiority of adolescent male beauty ..."
  Another of D'Arch Smith's works on the "Uranians" was published in the notorious pro-pedophilia anthology "The Betrayal of Youth: Radical Perspectives on Childhood Sexuality, Intergenerational Sex, and the Social Oppression of Children and Young People". There, he says:

Extended content

Shot through with simple yearnings – analogy with the negro blues not too far-fetched, both reflecting the discontents of an outcast people – it was permeated with longings for the poets’ lost boyhood; with regrets for the briefness of boyhood’s span; with declarations of the supremacy of Uranian love over other manifestations of affection; its, as it were, rightness.
As might be expected, dissatisfactions outweighed euphoria. Celebrations of untroubled and untrammelled love affairs were few and far between. With admirable stoicism, however, the Uranians were able to console themselves with very little: a boy seen in the street, the sound of a treble voice, glimpses of bare flesh at a bathing place, and on occasions, a kiss. Hard won, of rare occurrence, these to the Uranians were riches indeed.
...The uniqueness of the Uranians’ ideal lay in their single-minded tenet that society should discard the socially acceptable prerogative of parenthood and allow them to take from a boy such love as he has had, in the past, to reserve for his father and mother at a time in his life when he most needs a trusted adult guide outside the confines of home and school.
...the Uranians maintained that the very nature of male-to-male experience of sex, with its unwritten code of impermanence, was not callous or immoral but altogether harmless. It was their bravery in throwing down this challenge which demands our attention.

I've searched for other coverage of Nicholson and found mainly other pedophilia advocacy sources, plus one 1978 article by David Hall in The Book Collector which might possibly represent mainstream scholarship.paywall snippet view. Cheers, gnu 57 08:13, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like he's probably notable. Snippet view on Google Books shows a chapter is devoted to Nicholson in The Joy of Bad Verse (1988). Also two pages in Gay Novels of Britain, Ireland and the Commonwealth, 1881-1981: A Reader's Guide and I can view those pages in full on Google Books. These are not mere mentions in passing. Plenty of other hits on ProQuest, Google Books and Google Scholar including discourse on Nicholson's possible influence on Oscar Wilde. Also note the incoming link from The Importance of Being Earnest and several other articles. Haukur (talk) 08:43, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Joy of Bad Verse appears to be a book making fun of bad poetry. [24] I can't view it, but I don't know if it constitutes significant coverage. As for the Gay Novels... source, it's really two half-pages, and only one paragraph is about Nicholson (the rest is about one of his works). Also, it's published by McFarland, who don't seem too selective in what they publish, considering they have books on things like parapsychology. [25] You mention other hits, but I looked twice for sources significantly covering this person and did not find any. -Crossroads- (talk) 02:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's about bad verse but being noted for bad verse is still being noted and this does appear to go into a lot of detail and analysis. If you search for 'Nicholson' on the page you linked to you'll see what I mean. Should we see if anyone at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request can get us the relevant pages? As for the other source, you're right that a lot of it is on a book by Nicholson but that still counts for our purposes since authors WP:INHERIT notability from their works. Haukur (talk) 11:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to check there, go ahead. WP:INHERIT seems to say the opposite - that notability is not inherited. All I'm seeing so far are sources that are either unreliable or are insignificant coverage. Even if we grant the "bad poetry" source, which is not certain, we need multiple such quality sources. -Crossroads- (talk) 21:17, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I cited WP:INHERIT somewhat cheekily but note the "do allow for inherited notability in certain circumstances" sentence which applies to authors. Anyway, I'll see if anyone can help is with that bad poetry resource. I still think the Gay Novels source is a non-trivial WP:RS as well. Haukur (talk) 21:25, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Along with the sources that Haukurth points to, there's also some discussion of Nicholson in the introduction to Brian Reade, Sexual Heretics: Male Homosexuality in English Literature from 1850–1900, and several of his poems are anthologised in that work, and several mentions of him in Brian Taylor, "Motives for Guilt-Free Pederasty: Some Literary Considerations" in The Sociological Review. I'm leaning keep. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 10:50, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, for all he may have been associated with Breen (which is, ugh, not a good look) I am not convinced that D'Arch Smith is really fringe. Love in Earnest is cited by respectable scholars such as Rictor Norton (in Myth of the Modern Homosexual) Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 11:02, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Brian Taylor was allegedly a research director for the Paedophile Information Exchange under a pseudonym. "Motives for Guilt-Free Pederasty" also cites Breen (as "Eglinton"), Ken Plummer, and Mader, and includes lines like "Quite apart from the emotive, and often erroneous use of the terms 'victim' and 'assault' [FOOTNOTE: West notes how 'many of the children who fall victim to sexual offences have laid themselves open to advances by their coy provocative behaviour'...]..." Cheers, gnu 57 14:00, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The Sexual Heretics source doesn't include any information about Nicholson, just a few of his poems and a name drop. The Brian Taylor source is junk as gnu57 explained. I think the evidence that the D'Arch Smith source is mostly fringe advocacy is strong, and managing to get cited by Norton doesn't disprove that. For a similar example of someone getting mainstream citations to support some things, but otherwise engaging in fringe advocacy, see Rind et al. controversy. -Crossroads- (talk) 03:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Sexual Heretics has three paragraphs of discussion of Nicholson in the introduction, which is non-trivial. This includes mention of a review of his 1892 book in The Hobby Horse, which would itself count towards notability. Haukur (talk) 22:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Crossroads1. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:38, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we can write off Love in Earnest as a source counting towards notability. It was published by a mainstream academic publisher and has more than a hundred citations listed on Google Scholar. Gay Histories and Cultures: An Encyclopedia calls it an "important study" (p. 908). Of course, we don't have to accept it as a source for whatever non-mainstream views appear in it. Haukur (talk) 21:51, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Long review of Nicholson's book by Charles Edward Sayle: Sayle, C. (October 1892). "A New Poet". The Hobby Horse: 128–138. [26] Haukur (talk) 23:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete there are not enough significant sources, the article uses primary sources far too much. It clearly violates what encyclopedia articles should be.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:43, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Seems like there are a couple of sources that require more discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:51, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Let's look at some more sources. Here's Fone, Byrne R. S. 1995. A Road to Stonewall, p. 116: "The silence imposed by homophobia and the need to declare the nature of desire intersect in Nicholson's poem "I Love Him Wisely" (1892) and produce a small but telling masterpiece: I love him wisely if I love him well [14 lines are quoted] "The prudent distance that the speaker keeps between himself and the man he loves is a gulf across which the strong current of sexual desire arcs like an electric charge." Nicholson is also mentioned on pages 94, 95 and 170. On page 287 there's a bibliographic essay which approvingly mentions Love in Earnest: "For the study of nineteenth-century English homoerotic texts, the following should be consulted by any student: Timothy d'Arch Smith's Love in Earnest..." This sort of WP:USEBYOTHERS shows that Love in Earnest cannot be ruled out as a source. Haukur (talk) 10:10, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I think we should keep since there is plenty of coverage. For WP:THREE I'd nominate a) Love in Earnest (1970) by d'Arch Smith which is a book-length study that features Nicholson prominently and has him on the cover.[27] Whatever can be said about d'Arch Smith and however distasteful some of his views may have been, his book is routinely cited, and even praised, by other researchers of gay literature. b) The Joy of Bad Verse (1988) by Parsons which has a ~~long~~ chapter (pp. 282–291) devoted to analyzing Nicholson's works.[28] c) A highly detailed review of Nicholson's first book in The Hobby Horse (1892) by Sayle. [29] Haukur (talk) 10:31, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I now have the chapter by Parsons. It has nine pages of poems and commentary, most of it on Garland and Chaplet. There's some useful information in there (like: "Love in Earnest represents the respectable face of the poet. Although the topic is love, the actual gender of the loved one is left discreetly vague", p. 283) but some of it is tongue-in-cheek commentary that we can't really do anything with. Does anyone else want to take a look? Haukur (talk) 21:10, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I still maintain that we don't meet GNG or NBIO. A Road to Stonewall doesn't sound like in-depth coverage. D'Arch Smith is still pretty fringey for a lot of stuff, and I think he would profile any 19th century pederast. So I don't think he counts much towards notability. Joy of Bad Verse, while 9 pages long, it sounds to me from your description like a lot of that is occupied by the poems and by humorous commentary, so actual coverage on the man doesn't sound that great. The Hobby Horse may, despite its age, be our best source, but it is still just one book review. A couple other sources were mentioned above, but the problems with those have been pointed out (however, I guess Sexual Heretics does have 3 paragraphs on Nicholson - don't know how I missed that - but that still isn't a lot). At this point, we seem to be at 4 (including myself) in favor of deletion and 2 in favor of keeping. I will ping Genericusername57, Flyer22 Reborn, and Johnpacklambert to make sure they see the latest findings here, so if they wish to change to keep, they can do so. If it stays at 4-2, and given the discussion had, I'm not sure if that would be enough to count as a consensus for deletion for the closer; but I would prefer to see another week of discussion rather than a no consensus close. -Crossroads- (talk) 21:24, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for updating and summing up. Your comment is a model of clarity. To add a bit: You can check A Road to Stonewall for yourself on the Internet Archive – you may need to create an account but that's quick and easy. I'll also happily send you the Joy of Bad Verse chapter if you want, that way you don't have to rely on my summary. The only thing I think I see differently here is the "he would profile any 19th century pederast" part. The thing with notability is that that's how it's created. If an eccentric scholar publishes detailed research on an eccentric topic then, ipso facto, that topic is now more notable than it was before. So it's possible that D'Arch Smith made Nicholson notable. Haukur (talk) 21:37, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yeah, you may as well send me the chapter. -Crossroads- (talk) 21:49, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I read the excerpt. It seems to me to consist of maybe 4ish paragraphs about Nicholson directly, with the rest being poetry quotations and commentary on those that we can't do much with, at least in terms of supporting article content. -Crossroads- (talk) 06:00, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unreliable sources. Also, because of all the reasons that Crossroads1 mentioned above. Love in Earnest reads like advocacy. TrynaMakeADollar (talk) 04:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Source comment. This whole discussion seems to hinge on the value of Love in Earnest (1970) by D'Arch Smith. The argument that it can be dismissed as a source seems to be that you can find snippets in it that may suggest sympathy with pedophilia. The argument that it is nevertheless a suitable source is that it is used by others. It has some 150 citations on Google Scholar. A search for it there or on Google Books or on Internet Archive reveals that it is cited again and again in mainstream research on gay literature. Sometimes it's even explicitly recommended to readers, as in a book I cited above. If it's good enough for scholars in the field then it should be good enough for Wikipedia. On a more personal note, I really can sympathize with the desire to delete the Nicholson article. To abandon the dispassionate tone for a moment, I find Nicholson to be an unpleasant person to think about and reading his poems is nausea-inducing. But Wikipedia is not censored and we shouldn't write unpleasant people out of history. The Nicholson article has a number of incoming links, including from The Importance of Being Earnest. We would be serving our readers poorly by deleting it. We should, however, improve it and it should certainly be no hagiography. Haukur (talk) 10:09, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, I still think Love in Earnest (1970) is comparable to Rind et al. 1998. Both sources have use by others for mainstream purposes, and both have questionable content. Such a source would have to be used carefully; and I commented above on why I don't think it contributes to notability. I agree with you that if kept, the article should be improved and hagiography should be avoided. I have found that in the past Wikipedia has been used to promote or whitewash persons like this. But to be clear, I would not have nominated this simply because I don't like this person (though I absolutely do not). If someone is like this and is notable, better to have an article on them, so others may know how these people are - know thy enemy. -Crossroads- (talk) 16:40, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:03, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That Cursed House in Amityville

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Non-notable Spanish adaptation of a notable book. Searching for sources for "That Cursed House in Amityville" to prove notability of this adaptation only lead to finding sources for the English adaptation, "The Amityville Horror". The Spanish adaptation within itself is non-notable with no claim to notability. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:NBOOK. Don't let the notability of "The Amityville Horror" add to the discussion; keep it centered on this particular Spanish translation. Utopes (talk) 05:30, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - does not meet WP:GNG due to complete lack of sources - does not meet WP:NBOOK as it does not appear to have been been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in reliable sources - Epinoia (talk) 00:20, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 06:03, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kai Braden

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Pure puff piece. Please note that things like this don't add to notability, and that "references" like this one are just spam links. Maybe db-person or db-spam are applicable. Drmies (talk) 04:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Article reads like a resume. And not a terribly impressive one at that. Guy seems to have appeared in a bunch of ads and the occasional TV Show episode and is now a group crossfit coach. The only mention of him I found on a website that's not some sort of model search engine is this one article in Queerty, where, to be fair, he is described as a "top male model".^[2] He also seems to have appeared on the cover of a magazine called iFitness^[3], but I don't know enough about the field to say if that's a big deal or meaningless. PraiseVivec (talk) 12:37, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Obviously fails the WP:GNG, WP:NACTOR, and WP:NMODEL. -- LACaliNYC ✉ 21:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails the WP:GNG, WP:NACTOR. - MA Javadi (talk) 22:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination reason. Abtehas98 (talk) 19:28, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Simon Wright (talk) 15:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nick Bell (businessman)

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The subject of the article doesn't seem to have done anything notable per WP:GNG. Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:NBUSINESSPEOPLE.

Most notable for being a middle management employee who resigned by sending a company-wide email? Simon Wright (talk) 02:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - The article isn't written very well, but I think he does qualify per WP:GNG. Mass email antics aside he was notable enough to have several article written about him in the Hollywood Reporter ^[4], to make the list of Most Creative People of 2016 in Fast Company^[5], and to be profiled among the Snap "power players" by Business Insider^[6]. His teenage dot-com-era success story with teenfront is also mentioned in more sources than I could cite here. This page needs improvement, not deletion. PraiseVivec (talk) 13:00, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Agar, A. Ufuk; Dispoto, Gary J.; Tastl, Ingeborg; Koh, Kok-Wei; Damera-Venkata, Niranjan (April 2011). "Photo Quality Printing on a Digital Press". Hewlett-Packard Laboratories: 1.
^ Gremore, Graham (19 July 2018). "Two top male models accuse renowned fashion photographer Rick Day of sexual assault". Queerty. Retrieved 8 September 2019.
^ "Kai Braden". TNGModels. Retrieved 8 September 2019.
^ Jarvey, Natalie (24 August 2017). "Snapchat Content Chief Reveals Key to Creating Shows for Mobile". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 8 September 2019.
^ "Nick Bell: VP of content, Snap - For creating and curating the most clickable content on the Internet". Fast Company. 2016. Retrieved 8 September 2019.
^ Carson, Biz; Heath, Alex (7 February 2017). "Meet the power players who help Evan Spiegel run Snap Inc". Business Insider. Retrieved 8 September 2019.

Comment - Fair enough, though my reading of GNG suggests the threshold is rather higher than this, especially for businesspeople. To go through your citations... Hollywood Reporter: non-journalistic interview. Fast Company: a citation handed out like confetti to 100 people every year. Business Insider: an arbitrary list of corporate employees which says manager inside company led team that built feature. This is Wikipedia, not LinkedIn. Simon Wright (talk) 13:14, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like your mind is made up and you're not going to be convinced regardless of how many sources people will bring here. Yeah, this is Wikipedia, not LinkedIn. That's why I argue that having dozens of articles written about him in the media, from Hollywood Reporter, to Vox,^[1] to CNBC^[2] to Variety^[3]^[4] clearly makes him claim WP:GNG. Or maybe you believe that the entire web media is reporting whenever any old middle management guy quits his job. The guy was profiled constantly while he had his position at Snap, his departure was widely publicized, and there's even articles dealing with his new position. I feel like the last link, where he joins a startup incubator gives it away. Since that particularly company is pretty obscure, it's clear that Bell is the main subject of the article and his notability has grown beyond that of his position at Snap.PraiseVivec (talk) 12:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Johnson, Eric (25 October 2018). "Taking a page from YouTube, Snap VP Nick Bell wants to find the next generation of media stars". Vox. Retrieved 10 September 2019.
^ Castillo, Miechelle (12 November 2018). "Snap's vice president of content Nick Bell is leaving the company". CNBC. Retrieved 10 September 2019.
^ Spangler, Todd (12 November 2018). "Nick Bell Out as Snap's Head of Content". Variety. Retrieved 10 September 2019.
^ Spangler, Todd (5 March 2019). "Former Snap Content Head Nick Bell Joins Startup Incubator Human Ventures". Variety. Retrieved 10 September 2019.

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 14:30, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jacqui Jackson

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Sources are self-published book, documentary which I couldn't find much info about, and an old BBC article. Her son Luke may barely meet notability guidelines but she doesnt Jerry (talk) 02:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. This isn't a slam-dunk keep, but there's a fair bit of source material out there if you look hard enough. There's a full profile in The Guardian [30], a profile in the BBC [31], a non-trivial amoung of stuff in the Evening Standard [32], a scholarly review of her book [33], a fair amount of material in a book by an independent author [34], a BBC2 documentary about the family (see previous book source), a film based on said BBC documentary starring Helena Bonham Carter (see previous book source), some commentary on the documentary [35], and at least some mentions in another book which I can't access [36]. Now it's possible this article should be about the family, rather than the mother; but she is the focus of a lot of the stuff, and there's certainly enough to clear GNG. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:31, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Vanamonde93's post above. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:06, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Vanamonde93.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:07, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Apparent lack of enough independent sources to demonstrate notability. RL0919 (talk) 02:46, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DeRose (yoga teacher)

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Not notable. Approximately two daily lifestyle-section type articles mention him. The article is obvious promotion and the previous AFD notes that it was created by someone affiliated with him. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Well, searching gives very few links, but there are 12 citations in the Portuguese Wiki article, and they include ITU.com.br which seems to be a serious broadcaster, Folha de S.Paulo which is a national daily newspaper, and Globo.com which is a major web portal in Brazil. All three have given DeRose substantial coverage. I think we should ask a Portuguese speaker or better a Brazilian resident, but this looks close to notability to me. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:38, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The first one does appear to be a press release. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:59, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roscelese -- thanks! Of the 11 refs in the Portuguese Wiki, how many do you think are substantial and in reliable sources? Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete promotional context, a yoga teacher by that references is not notable. Abtehas98 (talk) 18:24, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you may well be correct, but I would welcome confirmation from Portuguese speakers on the quality of the sources cited in the Portuguese Wiki (linked above). Abtehas98, does that include you? Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Having looked through the sources on portugese wiki, the only one I see that is significant and independent is an article in globo [37]. Rockphed (talk) 11:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for checking. We should therefore Delete for lack of sources in any language. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:04, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I should probably clarify that I used machine translation and threw out about half the sources as unindependent because they were sourced to one of the schools he founded. Rockphed (talk) 15:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You'll be adding Portuguese to your WikiBabel list of userboxen, then... Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:30, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per lack of sources to establish GNG. MB 16:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete. This article is promotional crap, but I think there's a case to be made that the DeRose method, at least, has some claim to notability; I'm seeing a number of mentions in reliable sources, and it's possible that there are more substantive mentions that I'm not seeing. It's "delete" on the person, though. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 07:50, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mountain Valley School

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Doesn't appear to meet WP:NSCHOOL. Vermont (talk) 01:34, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The school has received lots of coverage due to its demolition and reconstruction process; the governor had some involvement in this. It's the biggest, most comprehensive school in one of Colorado's geographically largest counties.Jeffrey Beall (talk) 11:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

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Delete Sources I found include editorials about repairing the school, passage of the bond for repairing the school, and a single source that looked at the renovations (albeit paywalled without any indication that there is anything interesting beyond the paywall). I think this school is is WP:MILL. Rockphed (talk) 11:45, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Repurpose as Mountain Valley School District. At the end of the day we need to take a view as to whether the Project gains from the deletion of a page and I don't see how deleting an article on a public school is beneficial. However, whatever view is taken on the notability of high schools, school district articles are invariably kept. In this case we have a one school district. Therefore moving the page and rewriting the lead to reflect the district (which I am happy to do) seems the pragmatic way forward. 2A02:C7F:4481:8300:90DC:E235:5074:54B0 (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability, run of the mill school; WP:MILL - does not meet WP:NSCHOOL or WP:ORG which require significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources - Epinoia (talk) 00:28, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 23:38, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per not meeting WP:NSCHOOL and not having enough secondary sources. Oshawott 12 ==()== Talk to me! 00:18, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a little K-12 school in a very rural area, no sign of notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:20, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As per above editors it is just a little k-12 school in rural area which doesn't show any sign of notability. Funnygooster (talk) 14:30, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Blocked sock. MER-C 16:52, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No significant coverage. Barca (talk) 18:25, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSCHOOL.4meter4 (talk) 05:39, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per sources found. Renaming is a separate matter that can be addressed through the usual processes for moves. RL0919 (talk) 03:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Part Time

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Fails notability criterion of Wikipedia:Notability (people), Wikipedia:Notability (music), or Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Sources might be alright for content, but not for advancing notability. Talk page discussion was ignored and two sources added, 1)- a 2014 promo for a future "My Jamey" single and, 2)- The 405 source centers on the "musical project" and what is provided centers on David Loca with virtually nothing on the band (group) to be in line with NBAND. Otr500 (talk) 01:23, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per [38], [39], [40], [41], etc. Drmies (talk) 01:31, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Per Drmies. The sources he found are significant and look to be independent (if in smaller papers). Rockphed (talk) 11:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as has significant coverage in multiple reliable sources as shown above and in the article so passes WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC criteria#1 (only one criteria needed) thanks, Atlantic306 (talk) 18:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - if kept, the article should be moved to Part Time (band) to disambiguate from other uses of "part time", which is a common term - Epinoia (talk) 00:39, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep based on updated sourcing. RL0919 (talk) 03:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of film director and actor collaborations

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Doesn't pass notability WP:LISTN as a stand-alone list. The article has a complete lack of sources, almost no inclusion criteria and is mostly just an indiscriminate collection. Any future attempt at anything similar to this should surely start from new. Onetwothreeip (talk) 00:49, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to keep as I find the new form to be sufficient. How do I withdraw this nomination? Onetwothreeip (talk) 10:32, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Onetwothreeip, unfortunately, per WP:WDAFD, you can only withdraw it if no one else has supported the deletion proposal. Unless the outstanding delete !votes get struck out by the editors, we'll have to see this through. My assumption is that it will not close as "delete", only "no consensus" as the worst outcome. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:02, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Undecided, but leaning toward delete. I can name a few notable ones off the top of my head - Alfred Hitchcock and Cary Grant, Preston Sturges and a group of actors he regularly used - but is that enough to overcome the lack of definition of what a "collaboration" is? Probably not. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:09, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:HEY. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The information can be found in the articles linked to. There is no need to have a lot of pointless references confirming this person worked in that film. This seems like a notable topic. Search for the names of the director and the actor and the word collaborations and you can find reliable sources giving significant coverage of this such as [42] Dream Focus 07:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would have nothing against someone trying to start this article from new after it's deleted. The current article is simply not appropriate for an encyclopaedia, which completely exaggerates collaborations. Would you agree? Onetwothreeip (talk) 07:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to destroy something that has been worked on for years by many different editors, because you hope a new article more to your liking will be created in its place, is ridiculous. Use the talk page to discuss how you think the article should be changed, and work from there. Dream Focus 07:39, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to seek discussion on the talk page, but nothing has been forthcoming. I have brought the article to the attention of other editors as well, to seek their advice. I agree that what you describe would be ridiculous, but it is completely not what I hope to happen or am doing. This isn't an article that has really been worked on, it has simply been added to with no care about notability or inclusion criteria.

I have also tried to find reliable sources for the collaborations but there are none for the vast majority. This is clear when searching the supposed collaborations alphabetically, and that's after I've removed entries in the "A" section where there were only three films between the actor and director. Onetwothreeip (talk) 08:43, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Just because a director works with same actor in several films, does that make it a collaboration or is it something shallower? It could just be that there are a finite number of directors and established actors and they happen to get assigned to the same project again. You work long enough, and reteamings are bound to happen. Or maybe a director likes an actor's performance in their first film together and decides to use them again later. That in itself isn't noteworthy. You'd have to establish something stronger (and sourced), like the director insisting on using a specific actor over and over again. Are Robert Altman and René Auberjonois really indelibly linked together? I think not. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I'm inclined to agree with the nom here, the list is indiscriminate and completely unsourced. There has to be a better way of covering genuinely notable director/actor collaborations, Martin Scorsese and Leonardo DiCaprio being one such example. PC78 (talk) 09:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is a subject best fit for an article, where some of the more notable examples can be mentioned.★Trekker (talk) 13:25, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:LISTN and WP:Original research. Obviously some director-actor relationships are notable (Scorsese/DeNiro, Woody Allen/Mia Farrow & Diane Keaton) and it is not unusual to discuss such collaborations (see Martin_Scorsese#Frequent_collaborators and Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro) but I see little purpose in this index. It is completely unsourced and while some colloborations are notable these are best served by the categeory at Category:Filmmaking collaborations, where a suitably sourced and notable collaboration can be simply categorised as such. Even if the list was pared down to just include those articles in the category (and thus just including notable collaborations) I am not sure it would satisfy LISTN even then. Collaborations are generally discussed in the context of the careers of those people, not in the context of collaborations. Betty Logan (talk) 14:42, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment See Category:Filmmaking collaborations for a variety of categories and lists of this kind. Andrew D. (talk) 16:39, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Much work to source - and a bit overwhelming. However WP:NEXIST. Lightburst (talk) 18:01, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but absolutely nuke the unsourced content. This is a notable list topic that has multiple reliable sources:

10 Great Modern Day Actor/Director Collaborations by IndieWire
It Takes Two: The 15 Most Influential Actor-Director Movie Combos of All Time by VH1
The Freshest Actor-Director Collaborations Working Today, Ranked by Tomatometer by Rotten Tomatoes
7 greatest actor-director collaborations in sci-fi movies and TV by Syfy
15 potent Hollywood partnerships by Entertainment Weekly

I get that the article as it is is garbage. I could simply go ahead and wipe this content and start from scratch with the above references. Not sure if I should do that now or after this gets deleted. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:07, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Using the above references and others that I found, I've overhauled the article from this to this. I apologize that the names are not sorted and that some actors are grouped under the director and that some are not, and that the "Films" column does not have titles at this time. If editors can see the potential in this kind of list, being strict about sourcing and inclusion criteria, then we can hammer out the formatting and organizational details. Pinging those who have commented here already: Onetwothreeip, Clarityfiend, Dream Focus, PC78, *Treker, Betty Logan, Andrew Davidson, Lightburst. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:55, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- A grand improvement I'd say.★Trekker (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I put the table in alpha order but did not add any sort keys yet. A few directors were listed in seperate rows while others had multiple actors on one row. For the directors in multiple rows I merged their listing but I didn't break out the actors into their own separate rows as I wasn't sure what the intent or plan was. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in its current, greatly improved form. As long as the list is maintained to only include sourced examples, and doesn't become the indiscriminate mess it was before, it is a valid list article, as demonstrated by the now-included sources. Kudos to Erik for actually taking the time to put that work in! Rorshacma (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Now Erik has worked on it, trimmed the cruft and sourced it. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:37, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per improvements. Will try to withdraw later today. Onetwothreeip (talk) 02:17, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It needs more work but it's certainly an improvement, so I guess we should give this new version the benefit of the doubt. PC78 (talk) 06:56, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per improvements by Erik and WP:SKCRIT withdrawn nomination. Lightburst (talk) 17:33, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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