Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

Baby Kia

AfDs for this article:

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all the sources are unreliable or don't have significant coverage Genius is not reliable, sister dominic is not reliable, AllMusic is barely reliable , complex don't have significant coverage of the artist, Billboard don't have significant coverage of the artist, Rap-Up don't have significant coverage of the artist, XXL MAG don't have significant coverage of the artist. Momentoftrue (talk) 17:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2025 April 22. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:50, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Steve Currie

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Fails WP:BAND and WP:GNG in that his notability is related primarily to membership in T Rex. References cited mention him only in passing and primarily in that connection. Should be a redirect to the band article, and lacks sufficient notability to warrant a standalone article. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 12:13, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect Per nom the sources in the article only cover currie in regards to his membership in the band or when its about his connection to Marc Bolan Scooby453w (talk) 15:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to T. Rex (band). This article may have been created because other non-Bolan members of T. Rex also have their own articles, but the others have more activities of note outside the band. Currie was a longtime member during the band's most massive success, but I must agree with the nominator and previous voter on how he has little outside of the band with which to build an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:51, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Untrue to say that the sources are mere mentions in passing - although all four are from Bolan/T.Rex books, they nonetheless substantially record Currie's background and career prior to joining the band. They are not quick one liners by any means. They are adequate (if similar in content to each other) and there are other examples like them e.g. The Official Marc Bolan Story by George Tremlett. (Futura 1975) or Marc Bolan:The Legendary Years by John & Shan Bramley (Gryphon 1997) Romomusicfan (talk) 20:53, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Shannon Durig

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Doesn't seem to have enough sources with SIGCOV. I found this with sparse coverage, this with moderate coverage, and this. LastJabberwocky (talk) 09:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment, there is a ton of coverage in the Kansas City Star, see [1], [2], [3]. I think that's one element of an ideal three to establish GNG. Will see if I can find dig up more. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:22, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The New York Daily News also published a two page spread upon her 1,000th performance. I'm still probably at a Weak delete, but maybe someone else will find a bit more coverage. Maybve there is a world where this could be redirected to the musical's article, but her name isn't really there in any substantial way right now. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:37, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Bedridden

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This was flagged since 2007, although the citations template was removed without improvement [4]. There is only one source on the page and that is just a reference to playing a song on a radio show. Searches show almost nothing. I found a reference to a saying attributed to them (wrongly), and some primary sourcing but I cannot find any independent reliable secondary sourced coverage of this non notable band. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:33, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: The band has this good coverage and this article mentions a Rock 'n' Roll City: Adelaide Babylon, which promises to elaborate on The Bedridden, but I don't have access to the book to confirm. It feels like a weak delete, but it still needs another good sources to keep the article. LastJabberwocky (talk) 15:41, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Haroon-Gavin

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Non-notable music composer duo. Sources are just passing mentions and reworded press releases. Nothing in-depth or independent. Doesn't meet WP:GNG or WP:BIO. Junbeesh (talk) 08:27, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Does not satisfy notability and there is no significant coverage. Pizza on Pineapple ^{(Let's eat🍕)} 19:48, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Abortive Gasp

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Was deprodded. The rationale is explained on the talk page of the article. However, searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:29, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete seeing some coverage but not enough to justify or meet GNG. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 22:59, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I'd hate to agree, but there's not much margin for this band to work with in the notability requirements for bands - not on significant label, no notable members, no evidence of tours or other notable characteristics; most I could find was one review from 1991 -- t_kiehne (talk) 03:22, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A recent mark of its notability is the English-language documentary from 2022 'Nothing New But Abortive Gasp', available at [5], confirmed on [6] and reviewed on [7]] from Maryland, USA, for ex. Bunkerband (talk) 09:40, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Noting that I'm being canvassed by @Bunkerband on my talk page about this. It appears they've canvassed 14 people based on their current contributions, which I'm going to revert for the time being. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There were 17 canvassing messages sent, which I've now reverted. Several of those who were left a message haven't edited in a year plus. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:03, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Look, Bunkerband, I'm with you in spirit - I try hard to keep as many of Wikiproject Industrial articles going as I can, but without any of the criteria in WP:NMUSIC being met, even obliquely, it is next to impossible. Thanks for your concern but please don't take it personally -- t_kiehne (talk) 18:41, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, t_kiehne, for your kind words—I really feel they’re genuine. I got a bit too eager trying to drum up some lively participation in this deletion discussion and unknowingly went a bit overboard—sorry about that. Seems like it didn’t do much good anyway, unfortunately. Here’s hoping you can save as many industrial articles as possible—I’m rooting for the cause! Bunkerband (talk) 20:28, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete having had a gander, while you can see some coverage in places, I don't think it meets the notability guideline. Alssa1 (talk) 23:09, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mercy Kenneth Okonkwo

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No reliable sources, fails wp:gng ProtobowlAddict ^talk! 16:04, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Note that a duplicate article was created a couple of hours after this one, by the same editor, at Mercy Kenneth. PamD 08:10, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - When combining the duplicate articles, she appears to be working under three different names: Adaeze, Mercy Kenneth, and Mercy Kenneth Okonkwo. Under all three of those names I can only find very basic credits with no independent merdia coverage of her career, but she is good at promoting herself in social media and user-generated promotional platforms. Good luck to her as she gets started; at age 16 she has plenty of time to generate the reliable media coverage that is necessary for an article here. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:43, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The article cites zero reliable source—not even one. But I’m able to find this piece from Legit.ng and it satisfies everything needed in the GNG. I’ll keep digging for more. If this is the only source I find, then I’ll agree with DOOMSDAY that this is too soon. Another angle is also, NACTRESS, the piece from Legit.ng lists some films but the question is if played a lead role. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Save for the source from Legit.ng, every other source did not meet the threshold of being reliable, independent and indepth. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:37, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fantom (rapper)

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I have blocked the author as a probable UPE, but this page falls just short of G11, in my view. Nonetheless, I'm unable to find evidence that its subject meets GNG or any other applicable threshold. Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:30, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Grant Michaels (songwriter)

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Promotional tone, failed verifications, more citations needed... in the end, may not meet the notability standards. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 18:06, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Dynda

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nn musc group. Tagged sicne July 2024 with no improvmnt --Altenmann >talk 00:06, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom. No reliable sources found upon searching the subject, which means there is a significant amount of reasoning to believe that the subject is not notable.

WormEater13 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Bucci (Malawian singer)

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Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:32, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: It already has great sources Malawi24 and Music of Africa (it says at the bottom that they are supported by Siemens, which gives them a little bit credibility), and found no indication those sources are untrustworthy. Plus there is [ https://www.malawi-music.com/B/351-bucci.html malawimusic.com source with SIGCOV]. At the bottom they say: "We are proudly working with Musicians Union of Malawi (MAM)". The wiki page has a promotional undertone, but the sources are nice enough. LastJabberwocky (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I just added several new articles. These should be plenty to qualify.Originalflavors (talk) 06:25, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: plenty of sources. Not BBC of course but still plenty like Nyasa Times and allAfrica. FuzzyMagma (talk) 16:35, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Cherry

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Fails WP:NBIO and WP:SIGCOV. Of the four sources, three aren't even about Alan Cherry, just mention his name in passing. The fourth is a very sparse IMDB page. Jbt89 (talk) 06:33, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Pizza on Pineapple ^{(Let's eat🍕)} 19:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Marvin Perkins

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Fails WP:NBIO and WP:SIGCOV. Cites one source which is not WP:INDEPENDENT of Marvin Perkins and not a WP:RS. The seven external links are similarly neither reliable nor independent coverage. Jbt89 (talk) 06:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Anson Seabra

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Lots of hits on non-reliable and social media sites, can't find any in-depth references from independent, reliable sources, fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:25, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - a Lack of significant coverage. Bearian (talk) 09:38, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete clearly fails notability and he has no significant coverage. Pizza on Pineapple ^{(Let's eat🍕)} 19:37, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Summer Cem

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Upon searching for reliable sources, it looks like the subject fails WP:MUSICBIO. WormEater13 (talk • contribs) 17:17, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: From a surface google news search I found three good sources with relatively SIGCOV ([8], [9], [10]). Cem also has tons of charting singles already cited on the page. Easy keep. LastJabberwocky (talk) 06:39, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: meets WP:GNG [11][12] and multiple in-depth reviews of his albums on laut.de [13][14][15]. Also fulfills the multiple charted songs or albums criterion of WP:MUSICBIO. Nyamo Kurosawa (talk) 19:07, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wayne Lee Rea III

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Can't see anything that establishes notability. I don't think a redirect to Proton (band) is appropriate given their very dubious notability. TheLongTone (talk) 14:40, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Simply not enough in-depth coverage to show they meet WP:GNG, and I agree a redirect to the band is not appropriate. Apologies to TheLongTone for editing their comment, but the link to the band was a typo.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 15:09, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep if he did in fact have reached #82 on the ARIA Charts, he would meet #2 criteria on wp:musicbio. However, this article lacks proper sourcing on many sections and needs a reduction or someone to find citations.Originalflavors (talk) 05:58, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is an arguement for the bands notability, not this individual. TheLongTone (talk) 14:42, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Richards (musician)

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Lack of independent notability. I tried to redirect to Taproot, but this was reverted. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 14:28, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above, not independatly notable.TheLongTone (talk) 14:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that this article does have independent notability because it includes work that Stephen Richards has done outside of the band Taproot. T Yorke (talk) 18:50, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To T Yorke. Your opinion is clear that you think this article is notable, and should be kept. I agree with you. Snowman (talk) 09:44, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I believe that this article does have independent notability because it includes work that Stephen Richards has done outside of the band Taproot. T Yorke (talk) 12:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He has made contributions to various other bands music as mentioned in the article. Furrther, it is interesting and notworthy that he has been candid about how his illness has affected his career. Snowman (talk) 09:36, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Richards has done no notable work outside the scope of Taproot, and being candid about illness is not a good reason to have an independent page on WP. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 14:01, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Taproot (band). In fact he has not done enough outside of his main band to justify his own article. He's made some guest appearances with other bands, as many musicians do, but those are not necessary newsworty or notable. Those guest appearances and his comments on his medical condition can be mentioned briefly at the band's article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. His work outside the band does seem newsworthy and notable and all of the information in the article would be too much to add/seem out of place in Taproot's article. Clay...Bill Clay (talk) 02:02, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Clay...Bill Clay, what seems notable to you about his work outside Taproot? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:03, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dirty Karma

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Article about a Mexican band deleted in 2008 and recreated in 2012. I spotted only two independent sources with insignificant-to-sparse coverage ([16] and [17]). Checked archive.org, google news, google books. LastJabberwocky (talk) 10:14, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Rob Fusari

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and WP:INDEPENDENT.

Per WP:INVALIDBIO, this article hangs onto relevance through the subject's passing involvement with notable figures. The subject is not independently notable, and certainly not one worthy of a stand-alone article.

The article lacks significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources that provide substantial information about Fusari’s career and contributions. The majority of available sources focus predominantly on his association with Lady Gaga, particularly their professional collaborations and subsequent legal disputes. This reliance on coverage tied to another individual’s notability does not satisfy the criteria for a standalone article. Without independent and in-depth coverage, the subject does not meet the necessary standards for notability on Wikipedia. Brickto (talk) 22:29, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and New Jersey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:09, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I mostly agree and wouldn't mind a Merge with Lady Gaga (if she doesn't already have this dispute info with Fusari). Searching only Google News, I found two articles somewhat independent from Lady Gaga this Billboard article/interview touching on both the dispute and his career prior. Also review journal published a mini pieace in 2017, somewhat independent from the disputes with Gaga. He produced one Will Smith song, and is a member of a band that doesn't have a wiki page. Maybe if we can find another independent source with SIGCOV, like review journal, the article can be safely saved. LastJabberwocky (talk) 05:35, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Took a look, there seems to be a section on the Lady Gaga article that covers the situation. I looked at the sources to see if maybe there had been something prior to the court case, but the sources there also seem to be from articles about the legal dispute. I checked out the review journal article, and I don’t know why but something about the fact that the article is literally called “The man who named Lady Gaga is his own man now”just reinforces the assumption that this person really is not notable separate from his association to Lady Gaga. Maybe I’m being too bureaucratic lol. Brickto (talk) 18:21, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Forgot to include in the argument that notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. The subject seems to only be notable because of his former involvement with someone who is very notable. Lady Gaga’s notability isn’t passed down to the subject. He needs to be notable separate from her, and I just can’t seem to find anything that would suggest he is.

Brickto (talk) 18:34, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FyaVerse

Ted Perlman

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Non-notable musician. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 14:03, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I think this talks about him [18] in the "Starshine" article, says "award winning", but that's all there seems to be about this person. Delete unless we can find more/better sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- The barest mention in passing. Apparently, Perlman expressed interest in producing a CD for an obscure teen singing duo in 2007. There's no indication any such CD was ever produced. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:01, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete clearly fails notability and no significant coverage found. Pizza on Pineapple ^{(Let's eat🍕)} 20:03, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Whistle & Trick

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No sources, lack of categories, page looks untidy Dipper Dalmatian (talk) 07:28, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I’m still working on this. Apologies if I published this too early, I’m still learning. Please can it be kept, I’ll have references and tidy it within the next few hours. Is there a way to unpublish it but not delete it? Kwinky (talk) 08:07, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s a tip: create a draft page for the article(s) you’re working on. That way you can edit without the risk of deletion. You’ll be able to get sources, constantly check them to make sure they’re reliable sources (hint: sources leading to sites like Fandom aren’t reliable). Once you feel the page is ready you can submit it and wait for an admin to look over it. If the admin thinks that the page is good, it’ll be published. If the admin thinks it’s not good, the submission will be rejected. Dipper Dalmatian (talk) 08:59, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I appreciate your help. I did edit some articles years ago and thought I would remember but I'm a bit rusty.

I've corrected the issues that you mentioned above in the published version and will continue to add more content in a draft version. While it is still a bit brief, is this enough to stop the current published version from being deleted?

(Please note that I have included a citation which links to Paul Kelly's official Instagram where he states who his daughters are as I have not been able to locate this information elsewhere. I understand while this is not ideal it can be acceptable in some circumstances.) Kwinky (talk) 11:14, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Dipper Dalmatian I see you've edited the page too, thanks. It's now also been reviewed. In the circumstances, could we remove the "deletion" tag? Cheers Kwinky (talk) 01:13, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We can’t. Someone else has to do that. Dipper Dalmatian (talk) 05:42, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Dipper Dalmatian You are allowed to withdraw your nomination if you no longer believe the page should be deleted. Since no one else has yet supported deletion, the discussion could then be closed as a speedy keep. See WP:WITHDRAWN. MCE89 (talk) 06:19, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @MCE89, really appreciate all your help and guidance. @Dipper Dalmatian, ok with keeping the article now it’s been updated, so we can close this deletion discussion? Kwinky (talk) 03:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Australia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:46, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep per criteria 3 based on the absence of a valid deletion rationale. Having no sources, lacking categories and looking untidy are not valid reasons for deletion, especially since none of these are true of the article anymore. I don't see any reason why this needed to be nominated for deletion just 15 minutes after it was created when it was clearly still being worked on.

In terms of notability, I don't often participate in music-related AfDs and don't have a strong view about notability in this case. But a nomination for an ARIA, which is generally considered to be Australia's most prominent music award, seems to me like a reasonable claim for notability under WP:NMUSICIAN criteria 8. MCE89 (talk) 11:29, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dylan Cramer

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article was created by the subject's son in 2006 (edit: looks like Cramer edited his article a few times under Dylanrcramer12 (talk · contribs) and Dylanrcramer (talk · contribs)) and has survived for nineteen years with a single source – the subject's own website. I found two news articles on Dylan Cramer (one, two), but they do not mention any major works or accomplishments. The book Journeys to the Bandstand has a chapter on him and his father, but is unlikely to mention anything that would make him notable (or there would be other news sources reporting on it). Cramer appears to be a local Vancouver musician who does not satisfy WP:MUSICBIO. Iiii I I I (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Bands and musicians, Music, and Canada. Iiii I I I (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as subject does not appear to meet any of the 12 criteria for WP:MUSICBIO. I searched newspapers.com as well and found many notices about upcoming performances and the like (mainly in Vancouver area) but I don't see any sigcov to support WP:BASIC either. Zzz plant (talk) 04:37, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - This is a close call because the musician has gained respect from other musicians, and that generated some basic coverage among afficionados, but unfortunately I must agree with the in-depth conclusions by the nominator and previous voter. There simply isn't enough with which to build an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 12:47, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as well as the book chapter and news pieces highlighted by the nominator I found two staff-written album reviews at AllMusic here and here. Haven't done a full search yet, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:41, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In addition to the above, I found reviews for All Night Long at JazzTimes, All About Jazz, de:Rondo (Musikmagazin) [19] [20] [21] and in an index for Jazz Improv (magazine) [22]. I only searched for that one album. The fact that reviews are found across continents negates the "local musician" claim. Geschichte (talk) 07:32, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He meets WP:NMUSIC with the reviews found by the previous two editors, plus the chapter, plus there are long articles about Cramer and his first album (The First One, DSM, 1998, later re-released as Remembering Sonny Criss) in the French language newspaper Le Devoir (from the opposite side of Canada), one of which says "Il faut connaître Dylan Cramer. ... Cet album, il faut en goûter chaque note. Car Dylan Cramer a ceci qui est trės rare: chaque note mérite le doigté le plus fin qui soit." (You have to know Dylan Cramer. ...With this album, you have to savor every note. Because Dylan Cramer has something that is very rare: every note merits the finest fingering possible.) Plus, WP:MUSICBIO#5 says "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels" - he has released 3 albums on Nagel-Heyer Records. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sean Orr

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Disputed PROD, and that’s totally fine. But the de-PROD-der did so with summary that prompted me to do another cursory search, but still didn’t come up with anything tangible. My PROD statement Subject fails WP:NPOL and current sources do not help to qualify for WP:GNG still stands. I particularly went through the cited sources to find GNG-passable sources but yielded nothing. There are no sufficient independent sources that provide substantial coverage of the subject to establish the minimum GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:15, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Politicians, and Canada. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:15, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Bands and musicians, and Photography. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:19, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Plenty of news coverage, and other evidence of relavance. Maybe a rewrite is in order but deletion doesnt seem needed Antiblastic (talk) 23:19, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Seems to be plenty of secondary source and independent media coverage to me. Article could use some work, but that is not grounds for deletion. RedBlueGreen93 23:43, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: City councillors are not notable by default per NPOL#1. Facebook post, Tweets and routine election news coverage is definitely not what is needed to meet NPOL#2 (which is basically GNG). Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 13:59, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Normally I'd vote delete for city councillors, especially newly-elected ones who haven't done much in office yet, but recent coverage of Sean Orr specifically has not been routine or minor. An elected official being at the municipal level is not a hard rule; if notability can be demonstrated by significant coverage, then the subject is notable (WP:GNG). Recent allegations of antisemitism and promotion of violence levied at Orr, and counter-allegations of libel and mischaracterisations, have earned Orr coverage at the national level beyond routine election and council coverage (e.g. CBC article on the accusations). Yue🌙 05:56, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Yue Kindly present the sources you think makes this subject pass GNG. I didn’t see any, hence why I nominated. Social media links or PR pieces with insignificant coverages that are clearly dependent on the subject do not substantiate notability as long as GNG is concerned, so kindly provide your own sources that makes you think this, thank you. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:28, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The CBC sources reads: In a Wednesday morning news conference, is not indepth and so, we can’t rely on it to establish notability. Even if we did, a source isn’t enough. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 19:30, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Vancouver city councillors are notable political figures in BC. Other councillors have pages with similar sourcing and levels of detail. RedactedSagan (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The multiple calls for deletion from a single user Vanderwaalforces for an article under 1 month old without first contributing any clean up tags to the article fails to follow general protocol of steps C. according to WP:BEFORE. With Vanderwaalforces's issue with the notability of the person in this article, I question why a tag such as {{notability}} was not added to the article at the time of doubt, instead of the more aggressive, unnecessary deletion action. Particularly when there has been evidence leaning towards GNG, just poorly cited initially.

Sean Orr is notable as a Vancouver public figure due to his writing, activism and occupation as a politician. He has more significant news coverage citations than many similar level politicians with articles. His win in the latest by-election was notable as part of a historic by-election in Vancouver where voters waited up to 3 hours to cast their votes (and a majority of whom voted for Orr)^[1]. During his election campaign he has been endorsed by a number of well known politicians and public figures, such as Svend Robinson and Gabor Maté which in itself shows GNG.^[2] The lack of GNG-passable sources that were included when this article has been recently created does not indicate the lack of GNG sources of this person, it simply indicated the article was a stub in need of further work, added citations and additional edits. ColourfulCreative :DFTBA! (talk) 10:03, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Greta points. Sean is clearly an important figure. DFTBA! RedactedSagan (talk) 15:25, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Holliday, Ian (5 April 2025). "'It's a voter deterrent': Vancouver byelection voters face long lineups to cast their ballots". CTVNews.
^ "Instagram". www.instagram.com.

Comment: As long as NPOL is concerned, this subject utterly fails criterion one. For criterion two, which is nothing far from WP:GNG, and as far as GNG is concerned in itself, below is an analysis of the sources currently cited in the article in which the keep !voters claim it enough to pass GNG. There are three parameters that must be met by a source before it can be considered to substantiate notability per GNG, all of the sources fail at least one or two of the parameters.

Source assessment table
Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
https://scoutmagazine.ca/sean-orr-obscure-bands-played-my-friends-secret-loft-party/	By Sean Orr.			✘ No
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-councillor-sean-orr-past-remarks	~ Clearly WP:ROTM.			✘ No
https://www.ctvnews.ca/vancouver/article/2-new-councillors-elected-in-chaotic-vancouver-byelection/				✘ No
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-election-analysis-orr-maloney-abc-sim-1.7503180				✘ No
https://www.vancitylookout.com/p/cope-council-candidate-sean-orr	Orr added he’d..., Orr said he’d..., Orr said he’s..., etc.	~		✘ No
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/events-and-entertainment/pretty-drifted-photos-by-sean-orr-1917634				✘ No
https://scoutmagazine.ca/contributor/seanorr/	Author page	per WP:IRS.		✘ No
https://thetyee.ca/Music/2006/01/27/MusicPix/	~			✘ No
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/events-and-entertainment/9506-1917679	~		~	~ Partial
https://miss604.com/2007/10/vancouver-blogger-profile-sean-orr/	Clearly an interview.		~	✘ No
https://exclaim.ca/music/article/vancouver-just-elected-a-hardcore-punk-vocalist-to-city-council			Mostly WP:ROUTINE.	✘ No
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/jewish-groups-condemn-statements-from-new-vancouver-councillor-sean-orr/ar-AA1CzoUA			Clearly WP:ROUTINE.	✘ No
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/woodsquat-retrospective-2022-1.6586412				✘ No
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-police-union-endorsement-1.6607093				✘ No
https://en.votemate.org/local2022/candidates/6690	Biography submitted by the candidate or their team.		~	✘ No
https://results.vancouver.ca/2022/results.html				✘ No
https://elections.bc.ca/docs/rpt/2005GEResults/SOV-GEcomplete.pdf				✘ No
https://www.democraticsocialistsyvr.ca/vancouver-by-election-2025?utm_source=www.vancitylookout.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cope-council-candidate-sean-orr-opens-up-about-advocacy-pragmatism-and-the-intimidation-of-city-hall		~		✘ No
https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/04/14/Sean-Orr-Fired-Up-Grill-Ken-Sim/	Interview piece.			✘ No
https://results.vancouver.ca/results.html				✘ No
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/declaration-of-2025-official-by-election-results.pdf				✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:24, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Article does need some improvement, as it is a bit more reliant on primary sources than it should be — update: far less so now that I've poleaxed the unnecessary list of social media endorsements and added real media sourcing for his prior candidacies — but Vancouver is a global city whose city councillors do get a presumption of notability under WP:NPOL #2. I'm also almost certain that the nominator only looked for within-the-past-month political coverage, and failed to search for any art or music coverage from the 2010s. Bearcat (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat Thank you for dropping this comment. I have some questions; NPOL does not cover municipal politicians or councillors whatsoever, was there a discussion somewhere that said councillors from "global cities" are presumptively notable under the same NPOL that doesn't give provisions for people of that status? I definitely cannot see how Orr passes WP:NMUSICIAN or WP:COMPOSER either, can you try to give direct address on these questions, please? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:33, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
NPOL #2 ("local political figures") absolutely covers municipal councillors: mayors and city councillors are literally who that criterion was written for. It's also a longstanding consensus, upheld by hundreds or even thousands of past AFD discussions on councillors in cities like New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, London, Paris or Berlin, that city councillors in global cities are much more likely to cross the notability bar than city councillors in non-global cities — the article does still have to be more than just "So-and-so is a city councillor who exists, the end", but city councillors in global cities are very routinely kept so long as the article contains some useful and properly sourced context above and beyond "person who exists", as this one already does. See also WP:POLOUTCOMES. Bearcat (talk) 14:46, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat Of course, but that is immediately followed by who have received significant press coverage. With a note saying ... A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists. ... (I claim the emphasis). This is a parameter that must be met before a "local politician" can be considered presumptively notable per #2. Orr currently does not meet this parameter for NPOL #2 based on my analysis of the sources cited in the table above. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Per longstanding consensus, city councillors in global cities pass the test as long as they have enough coverage in reliable sources to enable us to write more than just "So-and-so is a city councillor who exists, the end". Orr has that. He also had coverage a decade ago as a musician and photographer and writer that you wouldn't find on Google, as Google very routinely fails to find decade-old coverage. There are a couple of sources here that could still stand to be replaced if possible (e.g. the one citation that's just his "staff" profile on a website that he wrote for), but there are already GNG-worthy media outlets being cited here, covering him in the context of more than just simple verification of his vote total on election night — and for a person who just took office within the past couple of weeks, there will clearly be more coverage in the future as well. Bearcat (talk) 15:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with your assessment of GNG for this subject, I’m sorry. It is also clearly incorrect to me because not even a single source passes all three parameters required to meet GNG. With your assessment, this also means local politicians from my country are covered by NPOL#2. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 02:26, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Sources seem to indicate notability and passes WP:NPOL. m a MANÍ^{1990(talk | contribs)} 23:37, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Allegiance (American band)

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This page was created by a user who has the same name as one of the members of the group. Beyond that it doesn't appear like there's any reliable sources about this band. GamerPro64 18:09, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. GamerPro64 18:09, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Blatant WP:PROMO and WP:COI issue. I can't tell whether the OP was a huge fan of the band or a band member himself. ロドリゲス恭子 (talk) 22:07, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I'm a member of the band and I setup the initial page, which looks like others have also contributed to, based on the revision history. With that said, how do I remove this off the deletion list?

I've reviewed everything on the page and it all checks out and is completely factual. Do I need I need to find links and add sources to as much as I can find? If so, I can move this forward and start submitting source links. With that said, some items may not be available online, due to the fact that the band broke up years ago - although, we are doing a reunion soon.

Any guidance here would be appreciated and I can move this forward.

Thanks,

Duane Duanexharris (talk) 20:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: After searching, I can't find any reliable, third-party sources about this band. No indication of meeting WP:GNG and it doesn't seem like any verifiable sources exist. – AllCatsAreGrey ^(talk) 22:54, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I could not find any reliable, secondary sourcing. Best I found was an interview. Schützenpanzer (Talk) 23:19, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Trish Doan

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I am the creator of this page. I have felt kinda guilty about this for a while because I think I did a terrible job at it. My reasons for deletion are as follows:

1. Most of the article is based on an web source from the Headbanging Moose, which I realise now is unverifiable/not an interview. In one recent search I found it was citing text from a Tumblr interview (alas that too was inaccessible). Either way; bad source, which makes up most of the article. Also, Hergirlrock and trishdoan.com are primary sources

2. Most of the reliable source coverage about Trish concerns her departure from the band in 2008, or her death in 2017. I feel both of these can be explained just as well in the Kittie band article or in other related articles (i.e. the documentary stuff)

3. When I made this page, I thought I was doing so primarily because I though Trish was an underrated bassist on Funeral for Yesterday and I wanted them to be known for other stuff outside of their struggles. In hindsight and in other words, I was trying to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. I am kinda more accepting of the fact that shit things do happen to people. I recognise the feelings I had at the time (aka when this was made; 2023) reflected my life situation which I didn't think I had a way out of at the time, and as such my edits were kinda projections of that mentality. I'm in a better place now (in part thanks to Funeral for Yesterday, actually) but I still feel as though I failed. If I made things worse, I am sorry.

// Chchcheckit (talk) 13:41, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, South Korea, and Canada. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:37, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Kittie. Thanks to the nominator for being honest. Per Wikipedia's rules for the notability of band members, evidence is needed that Trish Doan accomplished additional notable things outside of Kittie, but that just didn't happen. Info on her early bands and day jobs are fan trivia but don't pass the notability test. On the other hand, her achievements within Kittie, and sadly her death and how it affected the band, are Kittie-specific and can be adequately described at their article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 12:56, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think I lean more towards Redirect then: the point about how it affected the band is very much described on Fire (Kittie album) and Doan has mentions in two other album articles (FFY and I've Failed You) anyway. // Chchcheckit (talk) 14:19, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Keep well sourced article. If the page cannot be kept, it should be redirected to Kittie. --Jax 0677 (talk) 09:49, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The history of the article should be kept in tact, so the page should not be deleted. --Jax 0677 (talk) 01:01, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – I don't think deletion is an appropriate decision given the nominator's rationale, and I don't think merging the article is better than the status quo of keeping the article as it is because the rationale doesn't make sense. Paraphrasing but "I think this section can be covered in another article so we should get rid of the whole article" isn't convincing and doesn't make a clear connection to deletion policy. The sourcing seems mostly fine to me because most aren't unreliable and of course a niche musician is going to be covered mostly by outlets in their niche. Having reporting after certain events isn't a disqualifying factor at all either; I'm not sure what is meant by that. Yue🌙 06:02, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I mean in the sense that most of the text used to make the body of the article is based on unreliable sourcing so it's like Chchcheckit (talk) 14:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/Merge with Kittie: In solidarity with the page creator, Chchcheckit. There are three sections individualizing Trish Doan from her band. "Early life" is based on two sources and both seem to be dubious (hergirlrock.com. and THE HEADBANGING MOOSE), especially as primary sources for this section. "Return to Kittie and Kittie.." is based on self-published source (robmccallumfilms.com) and has a nice but brief sentences on her depression. "Death" is the best section, but it would be sad article if 90% of it is about the subject's death. Most of the information backed up by reliable sources can be merged with Kittie. LastJabberwocky (talk) 10:48, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Macan Band

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Notability of the band is disputed as not enough significant coverage provided (yet). Norlk (talk) 13:13, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Iran. Skynxnex (talk) 16:29, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A Course of Action

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There is no evidence of notability. In my WP:BEFORE search, I couldn't find any significant coverage in reliable sources. Many of the sources are press releases, profile listings, social media posts and unreliable blogs. Doesn't meet WP:NMUSIC.

Also nominating the band's album and single articles for the same reasons:

Dark Before the Dawn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Treason (A Course of Action album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Rocklahoma (EP) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Never There (A Course of Action song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Beautiful (A Course of Action song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Who We Are (A Course of Action song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
107 (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Frost 13:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Albums and songs. Frost 13:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This band while not achieving large mainstream success was very active for over 16 years with multiple albums, EP's, and singles. Also, this band participated in numerous large music festivals allover the United States that toured in support of various different mainstream acts. To delete such articles, especially of a group who was active for nearly two decades would be a great disservice. After all, is Wikipedia not an open-sourced community open for individuals to share their knowledge of something that others are not familiar with? I mean no disrespect to the individual who nominated this article for deletion, but I spent well over a week researching this artist to verify all these facts and sources to confirm all the information is factual. The lack of sources from major outlets is due to the fact the band has been inactive for nearly a decade and many sources are long gone and were not saved to the internet archive. But as stated I spent over a week combing through old videos and interviews from the band directly to confirm all the details were true and correct without positive or negative bias. I'm just a fan of music with a goal of preserving the history of artists and bands who left their mark on the industry, and though A Course of Action didn't make a historic mark like The Beatles or Michael Jackson, nearly two decades of activity and releases would be a tragedy to just forget about and label as non-noteworthy. Bruteforce7700 (talk) 22:30, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia has a different definition of notability for an article to be accepted - it largely falls on whether multiple reliable, independent, and significant sources exist or not. There doesn't seem to be any that discuss the band or its singles and albums significantly, and none of the sources in the articles contribute to notability:
A Course of Action: 24-7pressrelease.com, acourseofaction.com, airplaydirect.com, amazon.com, broadjam.com, cdbaby.com, crypticrock.com, discogs.com, facebook.com, youtube.com, myspace.com, spotify.com, iheart.com, hickoryrecord.com, mtsmanagementgroup.com, museboat.com, music2deal.com, muzicnotez.com, prweb.com, reverbnation.com, rockrevoltmagazine.com, sellaband.com, songs-that-should-be-mainstream.blogspot.com, sonicbids.com, sromag.wordpress.com, teenviewmusic.com, thehybridband.com, wsfairgrounds.com, backstagelosangeles.net, last.fm, musify.club, prlog.org, rockunderground.tv

Dark Before the Dawn: bandcamp.com, acourseofaction.com, cdbaby.com, crypticrock.com, museboat.com, apple.com, spotify.com, prostudiolive.net, 24-7pressrelease.com, amazon.com, backstagelosangeles.net, broadjam.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prlog.org, prweb.com, reverbnation.com, rockrevoltmagazine.com, shazam.com

Treason (A Course of Action album): acourseofaction.com, echo-asylum.com, reverbnation.com, rockrevoltmagazine.com, crypticrock.com, hickoryrecord.com, music.apple.com, musictalkers.com, myglobalmind.com, open.spotify.com, buffalochip.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prlog.org, prweb.com, setlist.fm, sonicbids.com, unratedmetal.com, youtube.com

Rocklahoma (EP): music.apple.com, musictalkers.com, open.spotify.com, switchbitchnoise.com, web.archive.org, reverbnation.com, acourseofaction.com, hickoryrecord.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prweb.com, sonicbids.com, unratedmetal.com

Never There (A Course of Action song): acourseofaction.com, reverbnation.com, rockrevoltmagazine.com, museboat.com, music.apple.com, open.spotify.com, songs-that-should-be-mainstream.blogspot.com, amazon.com, broadjam.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prweb.com

Beautiful (A Course of Action song): musictalkers.com, myglobalmind.com, spotify.com, switchbitchnoise.com, reverbnation.com, acourseofaction.com, unratedmetal.com, 24-7pressrelease.com, buffalochip.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prlog.org, prweb.com, sonicbids.com

Who We Are (A Course of Action song): acourseofaction.com, echo-asylum.com, reverbnation.com, rockrevoltmagazine.com, broadjam.com, spotify.com, 24-7pressrelease.com, discogs.com, last.fm, prweb.com, sonicbids.com, unratedmetal.com, youtube.com

107 (song): open.spotify.com, web.archive.org, discogs.com, last.fm, prlog.org, prweb.com, reverbnation.com, sonicbids.com

AllMusic [23][24][25], is reliable but is not significant, as it contains nothing more than a credit listing.
Frost 06:43, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Nominated and deleted once before in an AfD ten years ago. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Course Of Action. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 19:16, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Iren Dimitrova

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Pianist that fails WP:GNG. No in-depth sources found. WhoIsCentreLeft (talk) 09:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: The page currently has a self-published source and [https://web.archive.org/web/20150528143345/http://www.ubmd.org/static_info.php?id=18 a list of her awards. Checked Google News and archive.org; found only passing mentions. LastJabberwocky (talk) 10:03, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Requesting information form someone who can read the language about what the "lifetime achievement award" is about -- I think the entire notability of the subject might rest on this and don't think I can vote until I have a decent translation and interpretation of the award is. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 08:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Mscuthbert: the award is "Crystal Lyre". here are some articles about it in english [26] and [27]. LastJabberwocky (talk) 08:52, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cassidy (musician)

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No apparent notability outside of the band Antigone Rising. The majority of the page is unsourced solo work. BuySomeApples (talk) 01:25, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep: There are bunch of independent sources on her with SIGCOV, but not all of them may be reliable. This, this, and this for SIGCOV. And these ones for individual claims: [28] and [29]. Only searched Google news. LastJabberwocky (talk) 13:39, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep while this article has enough sources to meet WP:BASIC, it's in desparate need of a re-write to remove promotional language and non-cited/non-verifiable content. Nnev66 (talk) 18:22, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect, this subject does not seem notable on her own, but maybe as part of Antigone Rising as an AtD. like so. I can't see any reliably sourced information here, but if there is it can be merged. Jdcooper (talk) 15:54, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There are reliable sources with WP:SIGCOV in this article: The Seattle Times (2005) and New Jersey Herald (2017). There are other RS's that have only a paragraph or few sentences that I believe also contribute to notability. I acknowledge it's a close call but there is reliably sourced information in the article. Nnev66 (talk) 18:36, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- The Seattle Times article is about Antigone Rising again, and the NJ Herald is a fluffy interview piece about a local musician which includes the text: "Arguably, Cassidy's biggest moment of fame so far came in the early- to mid-2000s when she was doing 250 shows a year with Antigone Rising." I still don't see any sigcov, or indeed notability, outside the band. Jdcooper (talk) 20:16, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is not correct that this person has had "no apparent notability outside of the band Antigone Rising," and there is a reliably-sourced information here. Specific concerns should be listed and the opportunity for added citations and/or editing should be allowed. Whiplashmash (talk) 22:00, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tian Boothe

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Not a notable person. A lot of the sources are press releases and blogs, and the reliability of AllHipHop, although listed on WP:A/S based on one comment in 2008, has been questioned multiple times.[30][31][32] The article creator appears to have a history of creating articles with COI and paid editing issues. Frost 13:11, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST. Svartner (talk) 15:44, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom ,Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:53, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom. ロドリゲス恭子 (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Article has been significantly expanded since the last "delete" !vote. Thoughts on the expansion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Von Grey

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Never signed to a major label only self-released a handful of EPs and never a full album. The group did some tours as support act but never internationally as far as I can gather. Fails the notability guidelines for WP:MUSIC. Karst (talk) 10:12, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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In addition, the page was created by a staff member of Red Light Management who had the band on their roster at the time. See this Billboard article where she is mentioned. Karst (talk) 11:32, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Blatant advertising and COI issue. ロドリゲス恭子 (talk) 22:14, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: COI issues can be fixed, as well as the citation format. It has at least two good sources with SIGCOV (NPR and Billboard), plus they made appearances on Colbert and Conan shows (the links are broken but I double-checked they had). LastJabberwocky (talk) 09:49, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:24, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There's also coverage in digitised newspapers, from 2012-2016 at least. I'll try to add some to the article. Other issues in the article can be addressed. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, in addition to NPR and Billboard links, Atlanta Constitution, Asheville Citizen-Times, Gainesville Times, Arts ATL. Meets GNG if not NMUSIC. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:54, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in view of the additional reliable sources coverage identified in this discussion that together with references in the article shows a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my opinion, Atlantic306 (talk) 20:09, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

James Worthy (record producer)

AfDs for this article:

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The problem with this article is the same as when it was deleted the last time: almost all of the sources are not journalism but thinly veiled promotional material dressed up to look like "interviews," which are simply softball question templates filled in by the artist himself.

For example, this source is written by Lenell Johnson, whom Allmusic lists as Worthy's A&R rep. Another source, Singersoom, doesn't even mask its identity as a paid PR platform, as it has an "Advertise your music" banner on its site. Even an article in a source which might be thought of as reliable, The Source, reads like a PR blog post and claims, like the rest of Worthy's PR material, that he has been nominated for three Grammy awards, which I have not been able to corroborate with a WP:RS. This article in "Elevator" magazine is an article clearly tagged "promoted" and whose author is listed as "Advertiser."

I see no indication that Worthy has received any in-depth coverage from reliable independent sources that will satisfy WP:MUSICBIO, despite the "citation bombing" from Allmusic, Discogs, Spotify, iTunes, and IMDB. Rift (talk) 19:19, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This article has already been to AFD so Soft deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:09, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/Weak Delete: I share your suspicions about promotional material, and you mention that "Elevator" article is outwardly marked as promotional. Do have other articles we can definitively prove to be promotional? Because otherwise it sounds understandably conspiratory. The Source.com is reliable source and has moderately SIGCOV. This one seems fine. To me, the articles feel promotional because they don't really describe Worthy's work, but use flavor words trying to sell his work to a reader. That's said I don't know in which direction to lean in. :) LastJabberwocky (talk) 10:07, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 06:48, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OGOGO

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Original 2008 argument for keeping this article was based upon the fact they released two albums on major labels. They released albums on Innova Records and III Records, but III Records has notability issues itself, so I don’t see how it can upholster another article.

Also, there are few sources I can find. Google came back with All About Jazz, but that’s a database. They had one passing mention in a book from 2000. Otherwise, I’d say they’re unnotable. Roasted (talk) 22:32, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Further research: I don't believe it should’ve been kept the first time. The argument was that they released an album under a major label (Innova Recordings). The article itself doesn’t source that fact. The only place on the internet I could find stating such a fact was on Discogs.com. Also, Innova's website doesn’t know of an Ogogo.

Lugnuts argued that they released on two notable labels, but I couldn’t find sources for III Records, and placed a PROD tag accordingly. It should also be noted that Armatist participated in the deletion discussion. Armatist was the creator of the Ogogo and III Records article. Roasted (talk) 02:37, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected, their website mentions Ogogo. Roasted (talk) 02:45, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, this one just screams Wikipedia:Delete the junk, it's a nothing-burger from the early days of Wikipedia and lacks any notable coverage. Irruptive Creditor (talk) 08:54, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already brought to AFD before so not eligible for a Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:24, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I tried to conjure some results by typing the name of their work and their colloboarators (Schulman, Redux, solo view, Linden), but nothing much appeared. Found this press release, which isn't reliable per WP:PRNEWSWIRE and this review, which doesn't like notability-giver. Searched ProQuest, archive.org, and good old google. LastJabberwocky (talk) 04:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Blutonium Boy

AfDs for this article:

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Blutonium is German DJ. The article was nominated for deletion in 2008 and kept based on this source, which seems notable but doesn't have WP:SIGCOV. The other sources I found are: [33], [34], [35]. This self-published book mentions him in a list of hardstyle djs. German Music Archive doesn't give anything. It feels notable but notable sources couldn't be found. LastJabberwocky (talk) 15:32, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment This album review, available via TWL, calls the subject a "biggie in the genre". One of his remixes got a positive review in Muzik. Appears to have an extensive discography as seen here. Tending to agree with the nominator, the subject "feels notable" but this still needs better sourcing to meet MUSICBIO. ResonantDis_tortion 18:55, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already brought to AFD before so not eligible for Soft deletion.
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Daniel Saks

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Semi-advertorialized WP:BLP of a writer and musician, not properly referenced as passing inclusion criteria for writers or musicians. As always, writers and musicians are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and have to pass certain defined notability criteria verified by WP:GNG-worthy coverage about them and their work in reliable sources independent of themselves -- for example, you don't make a writer notable enough for Wikipedia by referencing his books to themselves as circular metaverification of their own existence, you make a writer notable enough for Wikipedia by referencing his books to third-party media coverage about them, such as professional book reviews and/or evidence that they've won or been nominated for major literary awards.
But this essentially just states that his work exists, without documenting anything that would meet WP:NMUSIC or WP:AUTHOR criteria, and it's referenced almost entirely to primary sourcing that isn't support for notability, such as his own podcast and the books metaverifying themselves. The only secondary source cited here at all is a (deadlinked but recoverable) Tiny Desk Concert, which just briefly namechecks his participation in the surrounding text without saying anything substantive about him, and thus isn't sufficient to get him over GNG all by itself.
Nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to pass GNG on better sourcing than this. Bearcat (talk) 16:46, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Moderate Keep: It already has bare minimum of sources + this source from Jewish Telegraphic Agency. I seen worse cases where there's nothing to be done, and the deletion is reserved for these cases. LastJabberwocky (talk) 12:46, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's referenced entirely to primary sources that aren't support for notability, except for a single glancing namecheck of his existence in a media source that is not about him in any substantive or notability-building sense. What bare minimum of GNG-worthy sourcing does that add up to? Bearcat (talk) 15:27, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I agree with the nomination. He hasn’t yet achieved enough coverage or notoriety to merit keeping the article. Go4thProsper (talk) 20:12, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 09:48, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Suggestibles

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A comedy group that improvises musicals. It's an uncited biography of living people, which failed speedy in 2007 for lack of independent reliable sources, so I'm going through this process. LastJabberwocky (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete looks like they still exist according to their website[36] but the only coverage they've received is an interview on a local website in 2019[37]. Unless better sources can be found, they don't meet wp:gng. Orange sticker (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. WP:MILL improv group with very little press coverage. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:30, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete: limited amount of mentions in Gnews above, but sourcing is lacking. We simply don't have enough to show notability. Oaktree b (talk) 20:48, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Lots of hits with sustained secondary coverage available via Proquest, including bylined article in a national newspaper stating this group is one of the "hottest comedy tickets in the north-east". See for example: Guardian, 2007, Evening Chronicle 2004, Journal 2010, Northern Echo 2011. ResonantDis_tortion 09:57, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi, can you drop a couple of more things we can draw from these articles. I still figuring out the best way to find sources for free, and your source isn't free showing me only a preview :). The only things I got are: "Newcastle-based" and one source says they are in-demand. LastJabberwocky (talk) 11:12, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Hi @LastJabberwocky You can get free access to a variety of databases, including Proquest, via the Wikipedia Library. You need 500 edits and to have had an account for 6 months: Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library. As well as Proquest it also includes access to the Gale database, which also has hits for the subject, such as this one providing bylined commentary on the popularity of the subject's performances. ResonantDis_tortion 11:27, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have added several of these sources to the article, so it is no longer unreferenced. This includes a further sigcov article, archived here. Article still needs work. ResonantDis_tortion 15:22, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for spending your time on a random article! Do you think the cited sentences would be enough for a servable article; and delete the rest. I assume you scanned all the internet and nothing else would be cited if you will not cite it :). LastJabberwocky (talk) 15:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  I did a minimum level of analysis to ensure the article is no longer uncited. Please make no further assumptions. For the record, there are so many hits on proquest, ranging from bylined coverage to pure listings, that it's a non-trivial job to trawl through and work out what text can and can't be cited. ResonantDis_tortion 18:46, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Even with new sources provided, which were human interest stories about local artists, these two improv performers still do not meet notability guidelines, certainly not WP:ENT, making "unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." -- Wikipedical (talk) 18:21, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I find I cannot agree with this characterisation of the 6 sources provided above. The subject has been performing for at minimum 10-years, according to The Journal source, and evidently has a level of cultural ENT impact given these quotes from bylined secondary sources: "hottest comedy tickets in the north-east" (Guardian), "one of the in-demand acts on the stand-up circuit" (Northern Echo), "Infamous" (Journal), "a high standard of entirely improvised comedy" (Journal), "rise to the top of Newcastle's cultural agenda with the improvisational comedy troupe The Suggestibles" (Evening Chronicle), "despite having no script or plans of action, The Suggestibles managed to turn around an hour-and-a-half of comedy gold" (Shields Gazette), and "It's proved so popular in recent years" (Journal). ResonantDis_tortion 19:34, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as they do have a dedicated article in a national UK newspaper the Guardian already referenced in the article as well as multiple regional newspaper coverage so I believe they pass WP:GNG Atlantic306 (talk) 20:19, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:52, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete/Weak Keep: ResonantDistortion found good sources confirming the notability of the subject, but there not still not enough coverage. At least currently, the Suggestibles page has the coverage that they exist and perform in this list of clubs. If we get just a little bit more, the would be finally convincing. I searched archive.org for the Suggestibles, and there is nothing. LastJabberwocky (talk) 09:42, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aditi Saigal

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This is a case of Wp:TOOSOON. Just one film as acting career and one ep for that she received some press coverage. Other than that she is daughter of singer and actor parents but notability is not inherited. Fails wp:NACTOR and Wp:NMUSIC as well. Zuck28 (talk) 11:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Per WP:FORBES, Forbes is generally considered a reliable source and can see Forbes covering profile for this person in their article here ^[1] Circular Karma (talk) 14:06, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://www.forbesindia.com/article/30-under-30-2024/aditi-saigal-aka-dot-winning-with-words-and-melody/91751/1

Not all individuals featured in Forbes necessarily meet the eligibility threshold for a standalone Wikipedia article.

The subject must first satisfy the notability criteria outlined in Wikipedia's WP:Notability guidelines as a prerequisite for inclusion.

Zuck28 (talk) 14:23, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Notability is not established per WP:NACTOR, WP:MUSICBIO nor WP:GNG. The sourcing consists of standard PR type promo that one would see for any emerging actor with a press agent, including Forbes, which is not significant coverage, it's simply a photo of her with a caption mentioning her name, thus trivial. The Forbes "profile" link above is more standard PR ~~written by "Forbes Staff", (it does not even have a by-line)~~. I agree with the nom that this is a case of WP:TOOSOON. Perhaps in a few more years this emerging actor will become notable, but at this time, one acting role, Spotify "fans" and famous parents is not enough. Netherzone (talk) 15:46, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It does have a byline and in my view counts as one piece of significant reliable sources coverage. Another reliable bylined piece in the Hindu here, another bylined piece here, leaning Keep for WP:GNG rather than WP:NACTOR imvAtlantic306 (talk) 20:50, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: One film is not sufficient to pass WP:NACTOR. Need at-least three feature films/web series/TV to comply WP:ACTOR. Forbes 30 Under 30 is paid. Bakhtar40 (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
General comment: Two is enough. Guideline says "multiple" not "several". -Mushy Yank. 14:35, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: coverage has her meet WP:GNG. At worst a redirect to The_Archies_(film)#Cast is totally warranted so opposed to deletion. -Mushy Yank. 14:38, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails to meet WP:NACTRESS. RangersRus (talk) 18:44, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR.Upcoming not notable at this point a case of WP:TOOSOON.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:49, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Upcoming?? What is upcoming and not notable? And what about a redirect? Also, of course NACTOR cannot be met with 1 role but please note that she is also a singer.... the articles in The Hindu (note that there are 2, although containing bits of interviews) Elle India, Rolling Stone (India) and Forbes seem reliable, independent and secondary enough and they are significant. Add https://www.hindustantimes.com/htcity/cinema/friendship-day-2024-aditi-saigal-aka-dot-defines-friendship-as-a-space-without-judgement-101722614530065.html https://telanganatoday.com/the-archies-actor-aditi-saigal-to-make-her-big-screen-debut-with-sci-fi-thriller-decibel and many other articles, and with WP:INTERVIEWS in mind, GNG seems to be met.... -Mushy Yank. 11:33, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
These are light-weight human interest stories, not serious journalism about her profession nor critial/analytical reviews of her work. The first is filler - her talking about her friendships, the second is a PR preview for an upcoming project. It's her talking about herself, which is analogous to an interview. Interviews are considered primary sources, not independent sources, and anyone can say anything to promote themself or their causes. And bits and pieces of interviews cobbled together does not make a strong case for notability. It's TOOSOON, maybe in a few years there might be enough in-depth, serious significant coverage, but right now, as @Pharaoh of the Wizards says, she's an "upcoming, non-notable entertainer." This is not a reflection on her or the work that she has done, it is simply too soon for an article in an encyclopedia. Netherzone (talk) 15:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You already said that and I disagree. -Mushy Yank. 16:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes and I was trying to be helpful. The reason for doing so is that it seemed that you may not have understood another editor's comments based on your response: "Upcoming?? What is upcoming and not notable?" and "containing bits of interviews" which led to my second comment regarding about role of interviews and their relation to notability which might need clarification. Netherzone (talk) 16:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, then, and thanks. But, for example, her role is not upcoming (and is significant, so that a Redirect (or Draft if TOOSOON is what you argue for) should be considered, then; and coverage seems significant enough, as, again, long interviews with bylined secondary coverage in reputable sources (Elle, Hindu, Rolling Stones) count for notability. Again, apologies for my too sharp response. -Mushy Yank. 18:28, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As per nomination. MD Edit 123 (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Guy Schwartz

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Lack of any notability whatsoever - prior print sources were bogus and unverifiable. Biased and POV statements littered throughout the article and the subject has flaunted said article on social media (facebook) many times. Large chunk of contributions to the article are from suspicious anonymous IP addresses that have only edited that page, as well as Guy Schwartz's own wikipedia account. Subject has not established notability and this page should be deleted. Brandonac4473 (talk) 09:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Well, the article is unsourced, so that's of no help. I don't find anything for sourcing. Could be notable, but the lack of any kind of sourcing isn't helpful. Could be a hoax or an LLM article for all I know. Could likely speedy this. Oaktree b (talk) 14:47, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment is the nominator the ip who removed the references which are shown here on the basis that they were bogus such as the Houston Press?. However, I did find this piece in the Houston Press here so maybe they weren't as bogus as is claimed, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:59, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep also found these other Houston Press articles about him here, here,here, here, here, and here. Going by this evidence the other references removed such as Billboard may be genuine as well, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 22:21, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, yes I am the user who called the Houston press in an attempt to independently verify the articles he cited on his own wikipedia page - none of those print articles existed according to them.

Your first link to houston press is talking about MARTY schwartz, not Guy Schwartz - Marty is a youtuber with infinitely more notoriety.

Of the rest of the articles you linked, guy schwartz is the main subject of only TWO of those articles - and not to mention, they are all by the same publication. Which per WP:GNG - "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability."

The only cited source within the entire article that I could find that had any direct ties to guy schwartz was yet another Houston Press article from 2007 entitled "South By Due East↵Racket heads for Austin as Guy Schwartz and M. Martin bicker over the history of a local festival" and it was incorrectly cited for a statement that claimed they have been running said festival since 2003 - which the article mentions nowhere. Thus why I pulled it from the article.

Perhaps Guy Schwartz could write a new wikipedia page about himself with info from those two articles that he is the subject of, appropriately citing things that are within those articles for the information therein. But the article as it stands is a plethora of wild unsupported claims - such as claims of a 2016 presidential campaign that are based in nothing but fantasy. Claiming he toured with Duran Duran, Todd Rundgren and Huey Lewis.

If Guy Schwartz was truly notable, then one would think he would manage more than a couple articles in Houston Press about his band. Brandonac4473 (talk) 09:17, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the Billboard references I confirmed were bogus through online archives of those issues he claimed he was in.

It also doesnt change the fact that none of those articles you linked were cited within the page. Had they been, this may have been a different story. Albeit the issue still stands: Per WP:GNG "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability." Brandonac4473 (talk) 10:12, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response, I've removed the Marty Schwartz reference. Agree more sources are required, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 19:25, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you agree more sources are required for notability, then please consider changing your recommendation to delete. Brandonac4473 (talk) 03:12, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kindly remove the bold in your request as it might be considered a !vote and it is assumed that nominators are generally in favour of deletion and cannot !vote. ◇Not sure it is appropriate to ask a voter to change their suggestion the way you did, but maybe that’s not an issue. -Mushy Yank. 18:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies - unbolded that word.

They can obviously do whatever they want, but I figured asking them to reconsider their vote would be appropriate considering that they now agree with the basis of my issue with the article to begin with - that more sources are needed. Brandonac4473 (talk) 20:20, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not yet fully convinced that additional sources do not exist so am sticking with my keep vote pending further evidence, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:18, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Houston Chronicle has bits of coverage about him; including this presenting him as "an icon of the Houston scene". -Mushy Yank. 00:11, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(and same media: https://www.chron.com/entertainment/music/article/guy-schwartz-new-jack-hippies-1979508.php (based on an interview)+ or this (short/similar to first and with similar appraisal, "a Houston institution"); this interview at Rag Radio (with an extensive presentation) (see WP:INTERVIEWS, an essay) can serve is this is kept to expand and verify. So that imv, he might meet one or two of the inclusion criteria as defined in the guideline about WP:Notability (music), namely:

"Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself"

(excludes interviews) and/or, more likely:

"Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city"

Houston is a city. GS, at 73, seems to be listed among the most prominent Americana musicians of its local scene. Ergo (weak) keep? If kept, the article, currently tag-bombed, should be cleaned up. -Mushy Yank. 00:31, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do any of these articles you linked support the plethora of claims made throughout the article?

This is why my attempts to verify them were so exhaustive. There are no credible sources for him having ran a 2016 presidential campaign, no credible sources for having toured with Duran Duran or Huey Lewis.

He might've passed WP:GNG if those articles were properly cited within the article but they weren't cited at all.

And Houston Chronicle calling his band an "icon" is a stretch particularly when their latest "music video" has 48 views on youtube. link

Houston Chronicle is open for business btw for paid promotions. Brandonac4473 (talk) 04:38, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Even if notability is established, WP:NDELETE still says a wikipedia article must cite sources for whatever information it presents - regardless of notability.

The entirety of the article is filled with unverifiable claims. He still doesn't pass WP:GNG in my opinion but the criteria to delete the page has absolutely been met per WP:NDELETE even if he is truly notable. Brandonac4473 (talk) 09:16, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to fix it, then and remove everything you think is inappropriate (please do not WP:BLANK the page, though). As for the idea that a page about a "truly notable subject" should (or even could) be deleted because the page has no sources cited, although sources exist (and in the case of an/this AfD, especially if sources are presented!!!!), I am very sorry, but: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Just read Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_based_on_the_existence_of_suitable_sources,_not_on_the_state_of_sourcing_in_an_article, which is a WP:guideline. "WP:NDELETE" is an essay (="the advice or opinions of one [..] Wikipedia contributor[s]", not a policy or guideline). You are totally free to cite it and it is not a problem, but it has little, if any, weight as an argument to delete a page. (I completely disagree with that essay, personally, and find it is full of wild and reckless assertions). Also, articles that do not pass WP:GNG but meet a given WP:SNG may be kept, depending on the case. Best, -Mushy Yank. 10:43, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, so you disagree with WP:NDELETE, thats fine.

Do you think Guy Schwartz meets WP:SIGCOV?

A brief mention in a list of other houston musicians seems like a trivial mention. Brandonac4473 (talk) 22:09, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: fails WP:N. The phoney 2016 presidential campaign with no citations to back it up says everything to me. Nominator appears to have tried to independently verify the print articles thoroughly. My own searching of “Guy Schwartz” on the internet doesnt produce much either, except for his wiki page. Non-notable. Brenae wafato (talk) 21:56, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment found this here about his supposed 2016 Presidential bid but he doesn't seem to have made the ballot according to official records, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 19:07, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

so this guy connected with me on a site called ome.tv and one of the first things he told me to do was check his wikipedia page, trying to tell me he was famous. i googled him and literally this was the only thing i found on him. given that... seems like he shouldnt have a wikipedia page LOL. he has no followers or coverage anywhere else.

i saw the notification at the top of his article inviting me to leave an opinion..

so i'd say delete but i also dont know how wikipedia works. but this guy is not famous or notable and definitely shouldnt have a wikipedia page if he just goes around telling random people to check it out and has no real coverage anywhere else lmao. 24.27.40.108 (talk) 05:03, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I mentioned how he flaunts his wikipedia article on his facebook page, its clear he uses the article as a trophy - so this doesnt surprise me that he is telling strangers on the internet to go check it out. Brandonac4473 (talk) 22:08, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

this guy did the same thing to me!!! he was all bragging about being famous and having a wikipedia page and i was like “dude… theres a thing right there that says your page is about to get deleted” and he was like “WHAT?!?” and disconnected 😂😂 70.113.49.149 (talk) 04:41, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Need more input from other experienced editors
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 10:49, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This seems like an easier call than indicated by some of the discussion here. Fails GNG and RS criterion and should be deleted. Go4thProsper (talk) 20:19, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And yet it does seem more complicated than that, because there are reliable sources and he might meet the specific guideline for musicians. -Mushy Yank. 09:24, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
None were in the article. The only one was incorrectly cited. He surely doesn't meet WP:SIGCOV. His band releasing an album in an article with 20 other bands is a trivial mention. Him flaunting the wikipedia article on social media and apparently telling strangers about it on chat sites is a major red flag that he isnt notable. Brandonac4473 (talk) 22:10, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As Mushy Yank has noted, notability does not depend on the sourcing in the article, but on whether sourcing exists. In this case, looking for reviews of his albums seems like a useful thing to do. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:18, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

delete absolutely this guy is not famous or notable AT ALL. he pulled the same thing with me on ome.tv that the person above mentioned. bro is literally going around the internet showing off his wikipedia page yet he doesnt know its about to get deleted??? 😂 ive met famous people and they NEVER bring up their wiki page to brag about it lmao. yet that is apparently all this guy does. 70.113.49.149 (talk) 04:45, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 16:31, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Wow, it is incredible how many other people here came to meet Guy the same way I did. I too met him on ome.tv and he spent the entire time dropping names about all these people he supposedly performed with. Telling me he’s a “band leader” and this and that. I started asking him questions about it (he mentioned something about U2 before they were famous which raised major alarm bells) and he was like “go google me! look at my wikipedia page if you don’t believe me!”

Well, Guy, I did. And at the very top of that page (not withstanding the fact that your page is littered with insane claims with no citations) there was a link to this very deletion discussion. It is hilarious to see that there are others that arrived here by the very same way.

I’ve never considered editing wikipedia until tonight. But from my research this Guy Schwartz is not notable, and does absolutely boast about his “fame” and wikipedia page to strangers on the internet - when he really has no leg to stand on.

Makes no sense to have an article about a non notable artist who just uses it for bragging rights. At the minimum i would think the article should be stripped of ALL ridiculous claims until such a time that anything can be verified. 2600:100C:B038:61B0:ED9E:5801:481D:D04B (talk) 07:28, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete I can't find any reviews of his albums or live performances. I found and added one notice about an upcoming performance in 1983, which names the tracks that were local hits. There are no reviews on AllMusic. There are some Houston media sources - HoustonPress had coverage of a new album in 2023 [38], which is mostly an interview, so not a secondary source; there's a bit here [39], also in the HoustonPress; Rag Radio interviewed him in 2013 [40]; I can only see snippets from the book Big Boss Man: The Life and Music of Jimmy Reed [41], which says some have called Schwartz the godfather of the Houston local music scene; the Houston Chronicle has listed him in "Houston music you need to hear in 20xx" a couple of times (2013, 2025), but it's paywalled. So he does seem to be known in the Houston music scene. According to the ReverbNation Artist Bio for Z-Rocks [42], a band he was in, the song "Autorock" was added into rotation on KROQ in Los Angeles and the song "The Teacher's A Punk was added to over two hundred radio stations. I haven't found more about that, though, and the songwriter was Randy Soffar, so that doesn't really add to notability of Guy Schwartz. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Holliday, Ian (5 April 2025). "'It's a voter deterrent': Vancouver byelection voters face long lineups to cast their ballots". CTVNews.

[2] "Instagram". www.instagram.com.

[3] ttps://www.forbesindia.com/article/30-under-30-2024/aditi-saigal-aka-dot-winning-with-words-and-melody/91751/1

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