Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Balkan Spring

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. First, I see policy-based reasons for Deleting this article. Most of the Keep arguments are talking about an article that they hope this will become some day but not about its present condition.

Secondly, do not retitle an article that is being discussed at an AFD discussion, it confusese the tools we use to manage, relist and close discussions. Wait until the discussion is closed to move an article.

Finally, this article could have been moved to Draft space rather than brought to AFD but that sometimes results in move wars by editors who insist articles be in main space. I'm happy to restore this article to Draft space (or you can make a request at WP:REFUND) but since this AFD discussion closed with a Delete outcome, know that you will have to submit a draft to WP:AFC for review and not just move it back to main space in a few days. This article will need improvement with sourcing and also editors will have to rewrite or refocus the article so it is clear that the concept refers to a unitifed, coherent event, not separate, different occurrences that just happened around the same time of the year. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:42, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Balkan Spring

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This page lacks any sources - it fails WP:GNG and WP:V. The author of the article themself (or rather, the editor that changed it from a redirect to an article) only cited a Reddit thread in one of his edits. And indeed, there are no reliable sources that can be found. The article wishes to refer to a wave of anti-government protests and civil unrest that swept across Southeastern and Central Europe in late 2024 and 2025, yet apart from the Reddit thread, the sources are either irrelevant (a movie) or are from 2018-2020, thus unrelated to what the subject is supposed to be. Brat Forelli🦊 18:37, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Greece, North Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, and Turkey. Zeibgeist (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Though I understand and appreciate your thoughts, what I meant with Reddit was to show that this term is now broadly being used in Balkan youth, and I am not capable of writing whole details of events here. I know that Turkey’s situation is fairly new though.

I was hoping other authors can participate further, instead of deleting it. Mavreju (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, all Slovakia, Serbia and Turkey protests are from 2025. Aren’t they?

If not, feel free to fix them instead of deleting it. Mavreju (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is a bit of a different issue. Per WP:RSREDDIT, it is impossible for us to consider Reddit a reliable source for any sort of claim. You do wish to prove that this term is now broadly being used in Balkan youth, but this cannot be done. If this term was widespread, then we would have reliable sources to show its WP:N. But we do not. Brat Forelli🦊 18:45, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I see. You are a better Wiki author than me, to be honest. So I won’t insist. Thanks!

Let’s see what others think too! Mavreju (talk) 18:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian protests have been going on since 3rd november DJpro39 (talk) 05:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I said late 2024 actually. Mavreju (talk) 07:06, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless reliable sources find these events connected, then recreate the article with valid sources. Polish kurd (talk) 19:22, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with the sources is that none of them actually talk about a Balkan Spring and searching "Balkan Spring" brings up stuff from 2019. Polish kurd (talk) 08:01, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete No sources. You could have also draftified this yourself too, no need for AFD on a new page – it is not acceptable to create an article without reliable sources. Reywas92^Talk 19:53, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This does not seem to be enough to need an article to tie them all together. Yes many countries in the region have experienced protests recently, no this is not a unified concept since all of the things being protested are quite distinct and independent. Reywas92^Talk 04:25, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete for now as we don't have any sources to support the article. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:36, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You appear to have added 5 sources - 4 of those do not use the label of "Balkan Spring". One source does, Newsweek. The problem is, this is not a reliable source. Take a look at WP:NEWSWEEK: Newsweek articles since 2013 are not generally reliable. (...) In addition, as of April 2024, Newsweek has disclosed that they make use of AI assistance to write articles. Brat Forelli🦊 08:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, shame on them to be honest. Mavreju (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article could be renamed to "2024–present Balkan anti-government protests". Arsabent (talk) 13:40, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, could we please stop with the "-present"? 2024-25 is fine, if it lasts longer it can be extended. Polish kurd (talk) 15:07, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think -present is a general usage. Mavreju (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’m fine with the title change. Mavreju (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, but are these protests related to eachother? In Romania they're anti-EU, in Slovakia they're pro-EU, etc... Polish kurd (talk) 16:54, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kind of. They are all considered to be anti-government protests. Arsabent (talk) 17:00, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Romania may be the only exception but still it’s freedom-related. Mavreju (talk) 17:05, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Slovakia is a long way from the Balkans. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Its close enough for it to be relevant also the protests are similar so it makes sense for them to fall under this umbrella term. Roc1233 (talk) 17:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Do sources group them in this way? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article title issue can be worked out and "Balkans" may well not be the best descriptor but the phenomenon is real. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (now being gutted by the US Trump administration) covered the protests in four countries in this article What's Fueling Protests In Georgia, Hungary, Romania, And Serbia?. Cullen328 (talk) 18:57, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And Georgia is even further. Only one and a bit of those four countries are in the Balkans (Serbia and some of Romania). I'm finding it difficult to discern what the subject of this article actually is. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep While I agree that the title can be changed, it's slowly being mentioned in the media that these protests are inspired by each other, and people tell each other to get courage from the other countries. Thousands of edits are being shared in social media as a solidarity. Though I know original researches are not allowed, I'm pretty sure there are solid sources that can be found about it. I think up until the name "Balkan Spring" is widely accepted, 2024-25 Balkan protests or 2024-25 Anti-authoritarianism protests can be okay for this page. Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 04:20, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete Article blatantly fails WP:V, there is no source that events are connected, no usage of the term, apart from pushing fringe internet theories. Romania421 (talk) 10:59, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep With the title change, the article no longer fails WP:V, nor WP:GNG: notability is obvious due to international and trustworthy agencies and press covering it, also being noted as a phenomenon. Verifiability is now also valid, due to the title change, as indeed no articles explicitly called it "Balkan Spring", but would refer to them as more of a "wave of protests in Southeast Europe". Boria02 (talk) 13:46, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
+1, Agreed Mavreju (talk) 12:23, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

+1, makes sense in its current form Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 12:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article still very much fails WP:V and WP:GNG, because there are likewise no reliable sources that would demonstrate the sufficient notability of the name "Southeast Europe protests". Thus, so far the article has the same issues, not to mention that it is trying to establish a connection between these protests in a WP:OR manner. Brat Forelli🦊 19:47, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep Just look at the news and certain countries, it's an important event Yesyesmrcool (talk) 21:43, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Theres very little legitimate sources which refer to these disconnected protests as the Balkan Spring. This article, as OP stated, originates from Reddit and is a sort of attempt to make these events larger than life, like a movie. EmilePersaud (talk) 13:26, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep multiple protests across multiple countries with the same goal. Scuba 17:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The term "balkan spring" certainly isn't appropriate, but there have been a surge of protests since October 2024. The best, most neutral, and most appropriate way to "do" this article would be as a smaller list Castroonthemoon (talk) 21:25, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive IP hopper comments

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

~~I don’t really get why this has to be deleted~~. The protests are real, and even if "Balkan Spring" isn’t a widely used term yet, that doesn’t mean we should erase the article. Wouldn’t it make more sense to rename it to something like "2024–25 Anti-Government Protests in the Balkans" instead? Just feels like an unnecessary removal otherwise. 91.97.114.88 (talk) 16:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.88 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Definitely keep~~ the term "Balkan Spring" follows the naming convention of the "Arab Spring," which initially faced similar skepticism but later became widely accepted as media and scholars recognized the connections between the protests. While the Balkan protests of 2024–25 may not yet have a universally agreed-upon label, the existence of mass demonstrations against governments in multiple countries suggests a regional pattern. Instead of outright deletion, renaming the article to "2024–25 Balkan anti-government protests" would align with Wikipedia’s approach to covering ongoing political movements while allowing space for further documentation as events unfo 91.97.114.238 (talk) 16:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.238 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Definitly Keep~~ I totally understand the concerns about sourcing, but the protests themselves are pretty significant. Maybe instead of deleting the article, a better option would be renaming it to something like "2024–25 Political Unrest in the Balkans." That way, we keep the information while avoiding any issues with terminology. 91.97.114.93 (talk) 16:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.93 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
~~Deleting this seems unnecessary~~. The protests are happening, and even if the label "Balkan Spring" isn’t in widespread use yet, that doesn’t mean the events themselves should be ignored. A better approach would be renaming the article to something like "2024–25 Anti-Government Protests in the Balkans" rather than erasing valid information just because of a naming issue. 91.97.114.93 (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.93 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Definitely keep~~ the term "Balkan Spring" follows the naming convention of the "Arab Spring," which initially faced similar skepticism but later became widely accepted as media and scholars recognized the connections between the protests. While the Balkan protests of 2024–25 may not yet have a universally agreed-upon label, the existence of mass demonstrations against governments in multiple countries suggests a regional pattern. Instead of outright deletion, renaming the article to "2024–25 Balkan anti-government protests" would align with Wikipedia’s approach to covering ongoing political movements while allowing space for further documentation as events unfold. 91.248.54.82 (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.248.54.82 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

KEEP As the Person above said, Similar to how the Arab Spring was initially just a series of protests across multiple countries before the term became widely accepted, the ongoing protests in the Balkans share common themes of dissatisfaction with governments, economic struggles, and democratic concerns. While reliable sources may not yet use "Balkan Spring" consistently, the protests themselves are well-documented. A more neutral title, such as "2024–25 Balkan anti-government protests, Like the Arab Spring Article was called at the beginning would be a better alternative to deletion, allowing the article to evolve as more sources emerge. 91.248.54.140 (talk) 16:33, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.248.54.140 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I get that "Balkan Spring" might not be widely used in reliable sources yet, but the protests happening across the region are real. Maybe instead of deleting the article, we could adjust the title to something like "2024–25 Protests in the Balkans" and keep updating it as more sources emerge. That way, we don’t erase ongoing events just because a single term isn’t universally recognized yet, so of course ~~Keep~~ 91.248.54.171 (talk) 16:37, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.248.54.171 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~definitely keep~~ While "Balkan Spring" might not yet be a well-established term in scholarly literature, the existence of mass protests across multiple Balkan states is well-documented. Historically, major political movements often receive their defining names retroactively as already 2 persons said the "Arab Spring" was named after the fact. A more neutral title, such as "2024–25 Balkan Political Protests," would allow this article to remain factual while avoiding premature terminology. 91.248.54.222 (talk) 16:39, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.248.54.222 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Deleting this seems unnecessary.~~ The protests are happening, and even if the label "Balkan Spring" isn’t in widespread use yet, that doesn’t mean the events themselves should be ignored. A better approach would be renaming the article to something like "2024–25 Anti-Government Protests in the Balkans" rather than erasing valid information just because of a naming issue. 91.97.114.5 (talk) 16:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.5 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Keep~~ I see the concerns about the lack of sources using the term "Balkan Spring," but the protests themselves are clearly significant and ongoing. Instead of removing the article, a good compromise might be renaming it to "2024–25 Political Unrest in the Balkans" or something similar. That way, it remains informative while avoiding any terminology disputes. 91.97.114.18 (talk) 16:43, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.18 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

~~Definitely keep~~ I get why people are skeptical about the "Balkan Spring" label, but the protests are definitely happening across the region. Instead of deleting the whole article, why not tweak the title to something like "2024–25 Protests in the Balkans" and refine the content as more sources emerge? Feels like a better approach than just wiping it out completely. 91.97.114.18 (talk) 16:44, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.18 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I see the issue with the term "Balkan Spring" not being widely recognized in reliable sources yet, but big political movements don’t always get their names right away. The Arab Spring, for example, wasn’t called that from day one. Maybe renaming this to something like "2024–25 Balkan Political Protests" would make sense? It keeps things factual without forcing a label too soon, so ~~Keeping is a good idea~~ 91.97.114.77 (talk) 16:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC) — 91.97.114.77 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment I've moved fraudulent !votes from an IP-hopping editor to the hatted section above. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 23:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not a single reference has coined the term Balkan Spring. Completely original research title. Ecrusized (talk) 11:04, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is still valuable information in this article. Why not just change the title and keep the page? Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 11:05, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I agree that the article should be kept. However, the term "Balkan spring", which I like, was used only on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ji90u8/the_balkan_spring_is_here/ . The title "2024-2025 Eastern European/Balkan Protests" is more fit, at least until the press adopts the balkan spring term. Edward Mike005 (talk) 12:11, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The term "2024-2025 Eastern European/Balkan Protests" would also need to be used by reliable sources however. Brat Forelli🦊 19:48, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Based on arguments already provided above. Rutdam (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The problems here were no sources and the term of Balkan Spring. Both of these were resolved when you commented. So what’s the problem now? Mavreju (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any sources for "Southeast Europe protests" either. Every one of those protest has its own article and this new article does not adds up anything new, it just summerizes every protest. The article is very OR with only one source backing the claim of the interrelated "Southeast European protests". Rutdam (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with this. If "Balkan Spring" already lacked sources to justify its usage on Wikipedia, then likewise, there are no reliable sources for "Southeast Europe protests" at all. Brat Forelli🦊 19:43, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What difference does this article have with 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts in terms of "having separate problems in the region"? Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 08:13, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: If it looks like WP:OR and sounds like WP:OR, then it probably is WP:OR Allan Nonymous (talk) 19:52, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify: Sources needed but i can see it becoming a thing in media so i would not delete it right away; also which boycotts are meant, 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts? Braganza (talk) 20:54, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article was moved [1] during this AfD, at 11:07, 28 March 2025. Toadspike [Talk] 21:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am leaning towards deletion or draftification here. I am very much concerned about SYNTH and I haven't seen any sources describing all of these protests with disparate causes as a group. However, many of the original !votes were specifically objecting to the original title, which has now been replaced with a much broader and less SYNTHy title, which might make those objections moot. Toadspike [Talk] 21:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

After the name change, I lean keep — IмSтevan ^talk 21:23, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The name change to Southeast Europe protests (2024–present) still leaves the title not describing the content of the article. Hungary is not in Southeast Europe and Slovakia is nowhere near it. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:04, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Sources have been found. [[2]] and [[3]]

For everyone that says Delete, can you please say why in detail? For example, what difference does it have with 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts? Which is also people inspired by each other. Why is one article ok, and the other is not? It's obvious that the people in these countries inspired by each other in the protests, and it's supported with sources. If you think this is not happening and not real, I would get the Delete vote, but saying that is kind of delusional imho. If you think if you have problems with wordings or sources, why don't you contribute and fix the article instead of deleting? Do we delete the Syrian civil war article just because we don't like wordings or sources? For some reason, even though there are sources and inspirations, I don't get why the authors here doesn't like to accept it. It's not about your personal opinion. Also, the people that say Slovakia is not in Southeast Europe, I can agree, but it's also in: 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts article too, that's why I'm not getting why it's ok in one article, but not in another. It reeks bias. For God's sake, even Czechia is colored in the article! And please don't come with "it's wrong in the other article too", no one is arguing if that article should be deleted there. Like I said, if you have problems with it, fix it. It's not that I care too much with this article, but I think it serves valuable information and trying to delete it seems contradictory to me. Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 08:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
these protests are independent from another, especially Romania & Greece Braganza (talk) 09:14, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Braganza already pointed out the problem briefly - the article seeks to combine all these protests and claims that they all represent a single movement, with shared goals. This is indeed unsourced and is a classic example of WP:OR. The article was created as "Balkan Spring" and AfD was created for this reason, as the thesis of the article lacks verifiable basis. The rename does not yet solve the issue.

Do we delete the Syrian civil war article just because we don't like wordings or sources?

This article is not like the Syrian Civil War article however. It is more like an article named "Middle East Civil War" that tries to bundle all civil wars happening in the Middle East together as a part of something. Understandably so, such article would also be deleted.

that's why I'm not getting why it's ok in one article, but not in another.

Per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS: The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on whether other articles do or do not exist. If the article's reason for existence hangs on the existence of 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts, then it should in fact be deleted. Brat Forelli🦊 11:15, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per WP:TOOSOON and WP:AtD, this may become a notable spinoff. It isn't notable enough for mainspace yet, though there's likely enough sources in other languages to establish notability DarmaniLink (talk) 16:39, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or delete the events are clearly notable on their own, but I fail to see a reason to make them part of a single event/movement. Seems that the main thing in common is the geographical proximity, which means nothing. Some sources might in the future make the connection but for now this seems like original research. Paprikaiser (talk) 00:22, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There is no data to verify existence of a spring (an at least partially common sphere of influence), and as a Turkish person I can verify that protests not only don't have any connection, but also only ones that made it to Turkish news are Serbian ones, which wasn't a great interest in Turkish media.
Kemkhachev (talk) 04:15, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, looking up "Southeast Europe protests" I can only find a couple sources grouping protests in the region as a single unitary phenomenon, and not necessarily all of the countries in the article are mentioned, some of the protests in the article are due to unrelated reasons from the majority. Super Ψ Dro 10:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but improve/split into two articles. I've already stated my arguments in the article talk page about no connection between Slovakia, Hungary and Georgia protests with the protests in Serbia, North Macedonia and Greece and the fact that the aforementioned countries are not from Southeast Europe geographically.Milosppf (talk) 11:41, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: this AfD nom needs to be re-made in light of the article name being changed This AfD nom has now gotten rather confusing, because when the article was created as Balkan Spring, it was indeed unreferenced and probably a good candidate for a speedy deletion. I would have supported deletion on the basis that there are no RS besides non-notable reddit threads and forums referring to any "Balkan Spring". However, there now in the last few days appears to be RS which connects the series of protests across Southeastern Europe together analytically (the Balkan Insight and Newsweek articles). Based on that new information, I might vote to keep - but that is a totally separate question from my position on the initial "Balkan Spring" issue. There is a confluence of rationales here, some of which are no longer useful or accurate. The result is that I think it is impossible for a true consensus to form from this AfD nom in particular. Flip^and Flopped ツ 18:14, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed - Though I don't exactly know how this process works. Can you recreate an AfD from scratch? Mavreju (talk) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seconded - my main objection was to the term itself, not to the events. This was listed on ANI too due to socking which brought in many !votes DarmaniLink (talk) 21:40, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

+1 from me too Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 21:43, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.