Template talk:Lang/Archive 15

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Broken usage of langx

I'm not sure how this template works, but this page is complaining about a missing parameter "p", and I'm not sure how to fix it. x42bn6 Talk Mess 18:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The page was calling {{lang-ru}} with |p=. The template has been deleted, so I don't know if |p= (for "pronunciation", possibly) was a valid parameter. An admin will be able to check. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Some history – I didn't go back to the very beginning:

• changed from {{lang-ru}} to {{lang-rus}} at this edit – {{lang-rus}} supports the |p= parameter
• changed from {{lang-rus}} to {{lang-ru}} at this edit – {{lang-ru}} ignored the unsupported |p= parameter
• changed from {{lang-ru}} to {{langx|ru|...}} at this edit – {{langx}} ignored the unsupported |p= parameter until just a day or so ago; now it emits an error message when editors give it parameters that it does not support.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

So it looks like one possible fix is to change the template transclusion back to {{lang-rus}}. Or is that creating more work in the future? This error is present in other articles, such as Denis Cheryshev. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

For now changing is the fix. I did however propose that we either disentangle the unsupported features from -rus or add support for them so other languages can use. There is really almost no reason at all for any specific-language template to stay after the creation of langx. Gonnym (talk) 19:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Pending more granular tracking categories or sorting within the category, an insource search shows 63 articles with this particular error. Most appear to be using lang|ru, but at least a few are using lang|zh, which I have not investigated. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks like there is also an error message with "sc", which presumably refers to script. Mellk (talk) 13:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, but it is not necessary for you to report each instance of unknown parameters causing error messages. They are all collected in Category:Lang and lang-xx template errors which at present lists 80 pages.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:57, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Since this is related to lang-rus, the issue is not just "p=". Mellk (talk) 14:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The 'issue' is {{lang}} and {{langx}} with parameters that are not know to those templates. The issue is not confined to {{lang-rus}} or {{lang-zh}} templates that have been improperly changed to {{lang}} or {{langx}}. Here are searches that are not parameter specific for both templates:

• {{lang}} ~680 articles
• {{langx}} ~190 articles

Yep, there is a lot of junk out there. You still don't need to make a report here for every subgroup of errors that you encounter out there.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I did not plan to make a report for every error. I also did not say that the errors are confined to lang-rus (that is pretty obvious when the search above showed that it was not just ru). I was referring to the fix suggested above. Mellk (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it is also possible to move pronunciation to the IPA template. I was under the impression that lang-rus would eventually be replaced, but it seems like this is not the case yet? Mellk (talk) 09:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Lang error category without error message?

Resolved

Church Slavonic is in Category:Lang and lang-xx template errors, but I am unable to find a red error message. Maybe I just can't see it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:30, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you see it here:

[ⱌⱃⰽⰲⰰⱀⱁⱄⰾⱁⰲⱑⱀⱄⰽⱜ ⰵⰸⰻⰽⱜ] Error: {{Langx}}: invalid parameter: |script= (help)

Fixing the deprecated |script= parameter (cu → cu-Glab) resolves the problem.

Croatian Church Slavonic: ⱌⱃⰽⰲⰰⱀⱁⱄⰾⱁⰲⱑⱀⱄⰽⱜ ⰵⰸⰻⰽⱜ, romanized: crkavnoslověnskь jezikь

It has been a while, but I've seen these before and if my failing memory is correct, always associated with {{efn}}. I was never able to figure out why the invalid error message gets sandwiched into and corrupts the maintenance message.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

No, I do not see an error message in this talk page section. Maybe my custom CSS is suppressing it? When I inspect the page, I see

<span class="lang-comment" style="font-style: normal; display: none; color: #33aa33; margin-left: 0.3em;">{{langx}} uses deprecated parameter(s) </span>

Note the display:none. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I can see error messages above now, and in the 20 October 2024 version of Church Slavonic. This appears to be resolved. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Non-latn text/Latn script subtag mismatch errors in ancient Iranian articles

Articles regarding ancient Iranian society like Mithra, Mantra (Zoroastrianism)#Etymology and Saoshyant#Etymology are showing this error recently, and I'm not sure how to fix them. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 13:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you really mean to romanize Miθra and Miθraʰ with 'θ' (Greek small letter theta)? Do you really mean to romanize Astwat̰-әrәta and astvat-әrәta with 'ә' (Cyrillic small letter schwa)?

Apparently there is no unicode for Latin theta so that may require some sort of modification to Module:Lang if, in fact, you did really mean to use the Greek theta character. There is a Latin small letter schwa: 'ə'. Wouldn't that be the correct choice when romanizing Astwat̰-әrәta and astvat-әrәta?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know much about how romanization works, but I believe you are correct about the schwa symbol. For Latin theta, I think there needs to be an exception. Or maybe {{transliteration}} would fit better here? I saw it work fine in some other articles. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 17:41, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

{{transliteration|ae|Miθra}} should emit an error message because Greek theta is not Latin theta and in the rendering, 'Miθra' is marked up as Latin text:

<span title="Avestan-language romanization"><i lang="ae-Latn">Miθra</i></span>

Miθra

For the same reason, were we using {{langx}}, there should be an error message:

{{langx|ae|𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀|Miθra}}

[[Avestan language|Avestan]]: <span lang="ae" dir="rtl">𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀</span>, <small>romanized:&nbsp;</small><span title="Avestan-language romanization"><i lang="ae-Latn">Miθra</i></span>

Avestan: 𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀, romanized: Miθra

These need to be fixed.

I think that I have a solution to the {{lang|ae-Latn|Miθra}} where 'θ' is the Greek form but I'll hold off on implementing that until I've fixed the missing transliteration error messaging.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I have tweaked the sandbox so that when the Greek theta (U+03B8) is the only non-Latin character in a string of text, it is assumed to represent the non-existent (in Unicode) Latin theta. Here are a variety of illustrations:

For {{lang}}:

• {{Lang/sandbox|ae-Latn|Miθraʰ}} → Miθraʰ – assume Latin theta because Latn script specified and all other characters in <text> are Latin script
• {{Lang/sandbox|ae-Cyrl|Miθraʰ}} → [Miθraʰ] Error: {{Lang}}: Latn text/non-Latn script subtag mismatch (help) – assume Latin theta because all other characters in <text> are Latin script; script/text mismatch: Cyrl script specified but <text> is Latin script
• {{Lang/sandbox|ae|Miθraʰ}} → Miθraʰ – assume Latin theta because all other characters in <text> are Latin script

When theta is the only character in <text>:

• {{Lang/sandbox|ae-Latn|θ}} → θ – assume Latin theta because Latn script specified
• {{Lang/sandbox|ae-Cyrl|θ}} → [θ] Error: {{Lang}}: Latn text/non-Latn script subtag mismatch (help) – assume Cyrillic theta because Cyrl script specified – Greek/Cyrillic Unicode mismatch not checked
• {{Lang/sandbox|ae|θ}} → θ – assume Greek theta because script not specified

For {{langx}}:

• {{Langx/sandbox|ae-Latn|Miθraʰ}} → Avestan: Miθraʰ – assume Latin theta because Latn script specified and all other characters in <text> are Latin script
• {{Langx/sandbox|ae-Cyrl|Miθraʰ}} → [Miθraʰ] Error: {{Langx}}: Latn text/non-Latn script subtag mismatch (help) – assume Latin theta because all other characters in <text> are Latin script; script/text mismatch: Cyrl script specified but <text> is Latin script
• {{Langx/sandbox|ae|Miθraʰ}} → Avestan: Miθraʰ – assume Latin theta because all other characters in <text> are Latin script

When theta is the only character in <text>:

• {{Langx/sandbox|ae-Latn|θ}} → Avestan: θ – assume Latin theta because Latn script specified
• {{Langx/sandbox|ae-Cyrl|θ}} → [θ] Error: {{Langx}}: Latn text/non-Latn script subtag mismatch (help) – assume Cyrillic theta because Cyrl script specified – Greek/Cyrillic Unicode mismatch not checked
• {{Langx/sandbox|ae|θ}} → Avestan: θ – assume Greek theta because script not specified

For {{langx}} with <translit>:

• {{langx/sandbox|ae|𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀|Miθra}} → Avestan: 𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀, romanized: Miθra – assume latin theta because all other characters in <translit> are Latin script
• {{langx/sandbox|ae|𐬚|θ}} → Avestan: 𐬚, romanized: θ – assume latin theta because this is the <translit> parameter

For: {{transliteration}}

• {{transliteration/sandbox|ae|Miθra}} → Miθra – assume latin theta because <code> is a language tag
• {{transliteration/sandbox|ae|θ}} → θ – assume latin theta because <code> is a language tag
• {{transliteration/sandbox|latn|θ}} → [θ] Error: {{Transliteration}}: transliteration text not Latin script (pos 1: θ) (help) – assume latin theta because <code> is a script tag
• {{transliteration/sandbox|cyrl|θ}} → [θ] Error: {{Transliteration}}: transliteration text not Latin script (pos 1: θ) (help) – assume latin theta because <code> is a script tag
• {{transliteration/sandbox|ru|ш}} → [ш] Error: {{Transliteration}}: transliteration text not Latin script (pos 1: ш) (help) – error because <translit> not latn script
• {{transliteration/sandbox|cyrl|ш}} → [ш] Error: {{Transliteration}}: transliteration text not Latin script (pos 1: ш) (help) – error because <translit> not latn script

Without objection, I shall update the live module.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Updated.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Category:Transliteration template errors $2

The article First Sino-Japanese War, in the sidebar box entitled "First Sino-Japanese War", contains a transliteration error and also appears to be assigning the nonexistent category Category:Transliteration template errors $2. I suspect that recent changes to this module or one of its subpages has caused this new, nonexistent category to appear. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Fixed I think; the miscoding (on my part) also added articles to Category:Lang and lang-xx template errors $2. The article count in Category:Lang and lang-xx template errors was going down, which is an expected result of the change. On the other hand, Category:Transliteration template errors was not changing so I was beginning to wonder why. Now I know why.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I figured it was a small typo like this. I don't go looking for these things, but I look at a lot of pages with errors in my travels, and I often stumble across new entries in error reports and categories that are caused by template and module changes. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:03, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

lang sandbox edits

@Gonnym: Something about this edit broke Module:Lang/sandbox so that the testcases fail.

Also: maker_error_span() should be make_error_span()?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:41, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Fixed both. make_error_span() could probably be replaced with make_error_msg() which also handles the span. I just created it to have that code be in one place while it was there. Gonnym (talk) 22:37, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Wrong font for lzh (Literary Chinese)

When using "lang|lzh" for Literary Chinese texts, it seems to be using a Taiwanese font?

For example, 有 is typically written as 月 which is also seen in historical texts such as in the Kangxi dictionary (inherited glyphs). But in the Taiwanese standard, they prefer to write it as ⺼ which is modern orthography (Traditional Chinese characters ≠ Literary Chinese characters). Another example would be 遣 where the radical ⻌ would be written as ⻍ according to the inherited glyphs, while the Taiwanese standard is ⻎. The template uses ⻎ instead of ⻍. How would one change it so that the template would use fonts (such as I.Ming) that are based on the inherited glyphs rather than the Taiwanese Traditional characters fonts (which are based on handwriting and their own standard)? Lachy70 (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

This is only related to the fonts your system picks to render specific languages, and has nothing to do with Wikipedia. Remsense ‥ 论 08:04, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't use Taiwanese font for me. Unfortunately browsers allow configuring default fonts only for handful of languages (if at all) and lzh isn't among them. And system configuration might be difficult. The easiest way is to add something like [lang]:lang(lzh){font-family:"I.Ming"} to your user style either in your browser, or just for when you're logged in to Wikipedia at common.css or global.css. The template documentation already covers that at § Applying styles. But if you think of something like overriding default fonts for everyone regardless of their system configuration, then this is something that definitely should not be done (MOS:FONTFAMILY). – MwGamera (talk) 05:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)