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Science

Mike Horia Mihail Teodorescu

Mike Horia Mihail Teodorescu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Assistant professor who is far from passing WP:NPROF based upon citations etc. Article was draftified as part of WP:NPP; originator immediately moved it back to main without changes. On his talk page he asked if focussing on him as an entrepreneur would be better. While the device Surgibox invented by his wife might be notable, standard non-inheritability and I see no evidence of WP:SIGCOV for his role as an entrepreneur. Options are enforce draftification to require proof, delete or redirect to Surgibox. Ldm1954 (talk) 15:19, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. This person meets Wikipedia's notability standards through major academic awards that satisfy WP:NPROF criteria.

The subject has received two major awards that clearly establish notability under WP:NPROF. First, he won the MIT Technology Review Innovators Under 35 Europe award in 2023. This prestigious international award has recognized technology leaders including Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, and Linus Torvalds, demonstrating its significance in identifying notable figures in technology and academia. Second, he received the Romanian Academy Mihai Drăgănescu Award in 2023, which is the highest scientific honor awarded by Romania's national academy of sciences for contributions to information technology. National academy awards clearly meet WP:NPROF criterion #3 for "major awards or honors in the person's field."

Additional supporting evidence includes publications in top-tier academic journals including MIS Quarterly and Nature Machine Intelligence, Harvard Innovation Labs President's Challenge Grand Prize winner status, MassChallenge winner recognition, Humanitarian Grand Challenge award, and his position as Assistant Professor at University of Washington with research in AI fairness and technology policy.

The citation issue with one Boston Globe reference should be fixed and has been corrected, but a single problematic citation doesn't negate multiple verifiable major awards from prestigious institutions. Either of the two major awards alone would satisfy notability requirements under WP:NPROF, making this a clear keep per established guidelines. A redirect to Surgibox would be inappropriate as it would eliminate coverage of his distinct academic achievements and awards that establish independent notability beyond his entrepreneurial work. EditorSage42 (talk) 15:56, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:36, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete An "innovators under 35" mention from MIT's alumni magazine is not a significant award. Nor is anything else on offer here ("best paper"? really?). The MIT News item is essentially a press release from MIT's own PR office about a company that the university has supported. The supposed Boston Globe story, "An operating room in a backpack? This Cambridge startup is sending them to Ukraine", said to be published on 26 May 2023, has a URL that points to "Harvard i-lab honors student innovators", published on 4 May 2016. It is written by Amanda Burke, not Jen Abelson. Searching the Boston Globe archives finds a Jenn (not Jen) Abelson, none of whose stories include "Surgibox" or "Teodorescu", and a Google search of the web overall finds no matches for the given headline. I suspect LLM confabulation was involved at some stage of the process here. Overall, this is an attempt to use Wikipedia as LinkedIn, and we should treat it as such. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 17:30, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Further proof why LLM comments/discussions are useless. Seriously, this is wasting our time in AfD. Oaktree b (talk) 20:29, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Second, you completely ignored the Romanian Academy Mihai Drăgănescu Award (2023). That's the highest scientific honor in Romania - equivalent to a national academy of sciences award. This alone meets WP:NPROF criterion #3 for major awards. Third, yes there's a citation issue with the Boston Globe URL. Fair point. But cherry-picking one bad citation while ignoring everything else? That's not how WP:AFD works.
The subject has IEEE Senior Member status, multiple patents in medical/AI tech, publications in top journals including MIS Quarterly and Nature Machine Intelligence, Harvard Innovation Labs Grand Prize, MassChallenge winner status, and Humanitarian Grand Challenge award recognition. Your "LLM confabulation" speculation is an unfounded WP:AGF violation. Even if true, it doesn't negate the verifiable achievements.
Finally, dismissing this as "LinkedIn promotion" is pure WP:ADHOM. A professor/CEO who wins major international awards, publishes in top journals, and delivers medical tech to Ukrainian war zones isn't using Wikipedia as LinkedIn - they're clearly notable per WP:GNG and WP:NPROF standards. Fix the bad citation? Sure. Delete the article? Absolutely not. EditorSage42 (talk) 17:41, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
IEEE Senior Member status is not grounds for notability. IEEE Fellow would be, but not Senior Member. Merely having patents to one's name is not grounds for notability either, nor is merely having published papers. There are no "verifiable achievements" here that are worth our time. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 17:48, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction You're correct that IEEE Senior Member alone isn't notable, and I never claimed it was. You're also right that patents and publications alone don't establish notability. But you're completely missing the forest for the trees.
The notability here comes from the major awards: MIT Technology Review Innovators Under 35 Europe and the Romanian Academy Mihai Drăgănescu Award. These aren't participation trophies - they're prestigious recognitions that clearly meet WP:NPROF criteria for major awards in the person's field.
You dismissed the MIT award as "not significant," but that's factually incorrect. This award has recognized tech leaders who went on to become household names. The Romanian Academy award is literally the highest scientific honor in Romania. Either one of these awards alone would satisfy notability requirements.
The IEEE membership, patents, and publications aren't the basis for notability - they're supporting evidence that reinforces the subject's standing in their field, which is standard practice in AfD discussions.
Your statement that there are "no verifiable achievements worth our time" ignores two major international awards, publications in top-tier journals, and humanitarian work delivering medical technology to war zones. That's not a credible assessment of the evidence presented. EditorSage42 (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just because MIT publishes a list of people, some of whom are already famous, doesn't mean that everyone on that list is worth an article here. Likewise, as far as I can tell, the Mihai Drăgănescu Award has never been considered sufficient for academic notability on Wikipedia before, and I don't see a reason to start treating it that way now. Every academic society gives out awards; even the most prestigious such award in some narrow category is not necessarily impressive in a broader context. Looking through the Romanian Academy archives, the Mihai Drăgănescu award is basically a "best publication of the year in AI/machine learning" kind of deal, not a recognition of lifetime achievement on par with, e.g., Academia Europaea membership or being elected to the NAS.
The "IEEE membership, patents, and publications" aren't "supporting evidence" for notability, because a person can have all of those without being notable. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 18:18, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction You're moving the goalposts. WP:NPROF doesn't require "lifetime achievement" awards - it says "major awards or honors in the person's field." The Romanian Academy is Romania's national academy of sciences, making this a national academy award. That clearly qualifies as "major" regardless of whether it's appeared in previous AfDs.
Your MIT dismissal is particularly weak. You acknowledge some winners became "already famous" but ignore that this proves the award's predictive value for identifying notable figures. WP:CRYSTAL aside, the award's track record of recognizing future tech leaders like Zuckerberg demonstrates its significance in the field.
More importantly, you've now shifted from "not significant" to "not everyone on the list is notable" - that's a completely different argument. The question isn't whether every winner deserves an article, but whether this specific winner with multiple prestigious recognitions meets our standards.
Your research into the Drăgănescu Award's scope actually supports keep - if it's specifically for AI/ML contributions and he won it, that reinforces his standing in his exact research field. WP:NPROF evaluates awards within the person's field, not across all academia.
The combination of national academy recognition plus international MIT award, supported by top-tier journal publications, clearly exceeds the threshold. You're demanding NAS-level recognition when the guidelines require no such standard. EditorSage42 (talk) 18:26, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Any award at the "best paper of the year" tier doesn't qualify for our academic notability standards. Even if that award comes from a national academy, it's not the kind or level of national-academy recognition that the guideline plainly asks for. (And, frankly, if the Romanian Academy is handing out awards to work that goes essentially uncited in a high-citation field like ML, so much the worse for the Romanian Academy.) Speculation about the "predictive value" of a publicity stunt is a violation of WP:CRYSTAL, WP:SYNTH, or both. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction You're mischaracterizing both awards and applying standards nowhere found in WP:NPROF. The guidelines don't distinguish between "tiers" of national academy awards or require specific citation counts. They simply state "major awards or honors in the person's field" - which both clearly satisfy.
Your "best paper of the year" framing is factually incorrect. The Mihai Drăgănescu Award recognizes "contributions to the sciences and information technology" - not a single paper. It's the Romanian Academy's highest honor in the field, period. You can't dismiss a national academy's highest scientific award by unilaterally declaring it insufficiently prestigious.
Calling MIT Technology Review's award a "publicity stunt" is absurd and shows you're not engaging with the evidence seriously. This is a decades-old program run by one of the world's most respected technology publications, not some marketing gimmick. The fact that multiple winners achieved later prominence isn't WP:CRYSTAL - it's documented history demonstrating the award's recognition of genuine technological innovation.
You're essentially arguing that no Romanian scientist could ever meet notability standards through their national academy, and that MIT Technology Review - despite its reputation and track record - can't confer recognition. That's an untenable position that ignores how WP:NPROF actually works in practice.
The standard is "major awards" not "awards that satisfy Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction's personal requirements. EditorSage42 (talk) 18:35, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm giving my frank evaluation of the Mihai Drăgănescu Award based on the Romanian Academy's own publications. It simply is not a "major award" or high "honor".
In reply to this: "You're essentially arguing that no Romanian scientist could ever meet notability standards through their national academy". No, I'm not. Please respond to my actual arguments, not a strawman version thereof. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 18:39, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction Your "frank evaluation" doesn't override the fact that this is literally the highest award given by Romania's national academy of sciences in information technology. WP:NPROF doesn't grant individual editors authority to personally evaluate whether national academy awards qualify as "major" - that determination is inherent in the institutional status.
You claim I'm strawmanning, but your logic directly leads there. If Romania's highest scientific award in IT "simply is not a major award," then what Romanian academic achievement would you accept? You've set an impossible standard that effectively excludes an entire nation's scientific recognition system.
The core issue is WP:NOTABILITY interpretation. WP:NPROF states "major awards or honors in the person's field" without requiring your personal assessment of worthiness. A national academy's highest award in the relevant field meets any reasonable interpretation of "major award." Your argument essentially claims you can overrule institutional determinations based on your own research - that's not how Wikipedia notability works.
Additionally, you've completely abandoned defending your "publicity stunt" characterization of the MIT award, suggesting you recognize that position was indefensible. The combination of international recognition (MIT) plus national academy honor clearly satisfies multiple pathways under WP:NPROF.
The question isn't whether you personally consider these awards impressive, but whether they meet Wikipedia's established criteria. They demonstrably do. EditorSage42 (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just because the institution has some status, that doesn't mean that every award they hand out does too. Nothing is "inherent in the institutional status". The Romanian Academy has a higher honor: being elected a member for life. Your argument, as far as I can tell, implies that if any nationwide society of any repute gives out any recognition for any field, however narrow, then that is de facto the highest honor available, and thus the recipient is automatically notable. That's simply untenable.
No, I haven't abandoned my characterization of the MIT item. I just don't see the need to repeat myself any more than I already have. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 18:57, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction You're creating a false hierarchy that doesn't exist in WP:NPROF. The guidelines don't require the "highest possible honor" from an institution - they require "major awards or honors in the person's field." Your argument that academy membership supersedes all other academy awards has no basis in policy and would effectively nullify most academic recognition.
Your mischaracterization of my position is telling. I'm not arguing "any recognition equals notability" - I'm arguing that the highest scientific award from a national academy in the recipient's specific field constitutes a major award. That's a reasonable interpretation supported by the institutional significance and field-specific nature of the recognition.
More problematically, you're applying an arbitrary standard that appears nowhere in WP:NPROF. Show me where the guidelines require awards to meet your personal threshold of impressiveness or where they establish hierarchies within institutional recognition. You can't, because those requirements don't exist.
Your refusal to defend the "publicity stunt" characterization while claiming you haven't abandoned it is particularly weak. If you believe MIT Technology Review's decades-old program recognizing future tech leaders is a "publicity stunt," defend that position. Your silence suggests you recognize how untenable that characterization is.
The fundamental issue remains: you're substituting personal judgment for policy interpretation. WP:NPROF establishes criteria, and both awards meet those criteria regardless of your subjective assessment of their worth. Wikipedia notability isn't determined by individual editors' opinions about institutional prestige. EditorSage42 (talk) 18:59, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's really quite simple. WP:PROF presents examples of what a "major award" looks like. The Mihai Drăgănescu prize doesn't look like any of them.
The MIT Technology Review is a glossy pop-science and pop-engineering rag. They print things about tech developments that sound exciting. They're not the Nobel Foundation. Six paragraphs on their website is not significant, in-depth coverage, and being one of 35 honorees in the sublist for Europe is not standing out in a noteworthy way. In fact, because the regional lists are just candidates for consideration in the global list, Teodorescu didn't really receive the magazine's highest honor. He's an also-ran.
I hate to break it to you, but all "policy interpretation" is "personal judgment", at the end of the day. Or, rather, it is the consensus among the personal judgments of multiple editors. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 19:17, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction Your attempt to dismiss MIT Technology Review as a "glossy pop-science rag" reveals the weakness of your position. This is one of the world's most respected technology publications, founded by MIT in 1899, with a track record of identifying transformative innovators. Calling it equivalent to tabloid journalism when it's recognized globally as authoritative tech journalism shows you're grasping at straws.
Your "also-ran" characterization is factually incorrect. The regional lists aren't "candidates" - they're separate recognition programs. Europe has its own selection process and winners. This is like claiming Nobel Prize winners in specific categories are "also-rans" because other categories exist. That's not how recognition works.
Regarding WP:NPROF examples, the policy explicitly states these are illustrative, not exhaustive. The examples include "major awards" without defining what constitutes "major" beyond field relevance. A national academy's highest scientific award in the recipient's field clearly meets any reasonable interpretation, regardless of whether it mirrors the specific examples listed.
Your admission that "all policy interpretation is personal judgment" undermines your entire argument. If interpretation is subjective, then my reading - that national academy awards and internationally recognized innovation prizes constitute major awards - is equally valid. The difference is mine aligns with institutional recognition and documented significance, while yours relies on personal dismissal of established institutions.
You're essentially arguing that Romanian scientific achievements don't count and MIT Technology Review's century-plus reputation is worthless. That's not policy interpretation - it's bias masquerading as analysis. EditorSage42 (talk) 19:27, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Not meeting PROF, an h-factor of 11. The awards won are non-notable as discussed. I don't find any additional sourcing about this person that would help show notability. Oaktree b (talk) 20:44, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And please don't message me or create a wall of text as above, summarize your points quickly here if needed. Oaktree b (talk) 20:45, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b WP:NPROF establishes no h-index threshold - you're citing non-existent criteria per WP:POLICYFORK. The Romanian Academy Mihai Drăgănescu Award is Romania's highest scientific honor in IT from their national academy of sciences. This clearly satisfies WP:NPROF#3 "major awards or honors in the person's field" regardless of previous discussion. Dismissing national academy awards violates WP:PILLARS - if this doesn't qualify, no Romanian scientist could meet WP:NPROF. Sources exist: University of Washington, MIT Technology Review, Romanian Academy - claiming "no additional sourcing" suggests inadequate research per WP:BEFORE. EditorSage42 (talk) 20:52, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We use it an an index of notability, it's covered under the citation criteria in NPROF. I've not dismissed the national award, but we need articles about the person in reliable sources. Do you have any Romanian news articles about this person? I did a BEFORE search, didn't find any. Share what you've found here please. Oaktree b (talk) 20:55, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b WP:NPROF doesn't require "extensive sourcing" - it requires meeting one of six criteria, which the Romanian Academy award satisfies. You're conflating WP:GNG with WP:NPROF. For academics, major awards ARE the notability standard per WP:NSPORT precedent - we don't delete Olympic medalists for lack of "extensive biographical coverage."
The MIT News article is 800+ words specifically about his Surgibox work and humanitarian deployments. The Brookings Institution published his AI policy research. University of Washington features his faculty profile and research. These aren't "brief mentions" - they're substantial coverage of his work. Demanding Romanian news specifically moves goalposts beyond policy requirements. EditorSage42 (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we do delete Olympic athletes for a lack of sourcing, please see the Lugnuts debacle going on here. Articles without sourcing aren't helpful. Oaktree b (talk) 21:02, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b The "Lugnuts debacle" proves my point - those deletions violate WP:NSPORT policy just as your position violates WP:NPROF. Olympic medals ARE the notability standard under NSPORT criterion #1, regardless of sourcing depth. Similarly, national academy awards ARE the notability standard under NPROF criterion #3. Your argument that "articles without sourcing aren't helpful" misses that major awards themselves establish notability - the sourcing requirement is for WP:V, not WP:N. The Romanian Academy award is verifiable through official sources. You're demanding biographical coverage that NPROF doesn't require, just as the Lugnuts deletions wrongly demanded coverage beyond NSPORT requirements. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:04, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well then you haven't understood why they've been mass deleted, the lack of sourcing. Same reason we're here now with your article. Oaktree b (talk) 21:08, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b You're proving my point - those mass deletions violate WP:NSPORT just as your position violates WP:NPROF. The "lack of sourcing" argument misunderstands how subject-specific notability guidelines work. WP:SNG states SNGs "operate independently" of WP:GNG's sourcing requirements. Olympic medals satisfy NSPORT regardless of biographical coverage, and national academy awards satisfy NPROF regardless of media profiles. Your position that both require "extensive sourcing" contradicts fundamental policy - WP:N determines inclusion, WP:V ensures accuracy. The Romanian Academy award is verifiable through official sources, satisfying V. Mass deletions based on sourcing demands beyond policy requirements are policy violations, not precedents to follow. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:09, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then please present extensive articles about the individual, we've asked a few times now, and none have been presented. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you. Oaktree b (talk) 21:11, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b You're demanding WP:GNG standards that WP:NPROF doesn't require. Substantial coverage exists beyond brief mentions: UW Research New Faculty Spotlight (full profile), MIT Technology Review Innovators Under 35 (detailed biography), Romanian Academy award announcement (800+ words with quotes and research details), MIT News SurgiBox feature (extensive humanitarian work coverage), Expert Institute legal profile (comprehensive professional background), and Newsweek Romania Top 100 (national recognition). These constitute significant coverage across academic, technology, humanitarian, and media sources. Your position that awards don't establish notability contradicts WP:NPROF's fundamental purpose - academics gain notability through achievements, not tabloid profiles. The sources exist; they're just not tabloid-style biographies because that's not how academic notability works. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:17, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Newsweek is not a reliable source. And if notability is to be established as a businessperson, then WP:GNG must be met. The University of Washington page is from his employer, and thus not independent. The Technology Review blurb is not in-depth or detailed. The MIT News item is likewise not independent. ("MIT News" is run out of the Institute Office of Communications, whose job is to make MIT and its affiliates look good.) Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 23:17, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction Your source dismissals reveal fundamental policy misunderstanding. First, Newsweek is absolutely WP:RS - it's a major international newsmagazine. Your claim otherwise is factually wrong. Second, notability isn't being established "as a businessperson" - it's established as an academic under WP:NPROF, which you've consistently ignored throughout this discussion. Third, your "independence" standard doesn't exist in policy - WP:RS evaluates reliability, not independence from subject affiliations. MIT News and university sources are routinely used in academic articles because they're authoritative on faculty achievements. Fourth, dismissing MIT Technology Review as a "blurb" when it's a detailed biographical profile shows bad faith evaluation. You've moved from calling it a "publicity stunt" to "pop-science rag" to "not detailed" - classic goalpost shifting. Most tellingly, you still haven't addressed the Romanian Academy award that satisfies WP:NPROF regardless of your source objections. Your entire argument collapses on policy grounds. EditorSage42 (talk) 06:38, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Romanian award might be notable, but there is still no reliable sourced that talk about this person. Winning an award doesn't guarantee a Wikipedia article, we still need sourcing about the person in reliable sources. Oaktree b (talk) 20:51, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b The article cites multiple WP:RS: MIT Technology Review, University of Washington faculty pages, Romanian Academy announcements, MIT News, Brookings Institution policy reports, and Harvard Innovation Labs. These aren't just "award mentions" - they're substantial coverage of his research, entrepreneurship, and humanitarian work. WP:GNG requires "significant coverage" not "biographical profiles." His AI fairness research at UW, Surgibox humanitarian deployments in Ukraine, and Brookings policy work all receive detailed coverage in reliable sources. You're applying standards beyond what WP:NPROF requires per WP:CREEP. EditorSage42 (talk) 20:54, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Correct, we require extensive sourcing about the person, not just brief mentions. That's basic Wikipeia article-making criteria. "XY does Z" in an article not otherwise about the subject isn't helpful, nor should be used for sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 20:57, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And you were already explained at AfC why the article wasn't acceptable, you published it anyway and we're also explaining why this isn't quite acceptable. The same sources you keep presenting over and over have been explained to be non-acceptable. If you have no further sources to share, there isn't much do be done. Oaktree b (talk) 21:00, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b You're applying WP:GNG standards to a WP:NPROF case - that's why AFC rejected it. Academics don't need "extensive biographical coverage" under NPROF, only meeting one of six criteria. The Romanian Academy award satisfies criterion #3 definitively. Your "same sources" claim ignores new evidence: he's listed in Newsweek Romania's "Top 100 Romanians 2024" (page 15) - exactly the Romanian coverage you demanded. You've moved goalposts from "no h-index standard exists" to "sources inadequate" to "AFC said no" - none of which override clear NPROF compliance. The award alone establishes notability regardless of your personal source preferences. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:03, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
GNG is needed for all articles. He still doesn't have extensive sourcing. I've already explained he is very likely notable, but we still need sourcing about him, and you've not presented anything different. Meeting notability isn't a free pass to get an article. Oaktree b (talk) 21:05, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b That's factually incorrect. WP:SNG explicitly states: "If a topic satisfies the criteria of any subject-specific notability guideline listed below, it is presumed to satisfy the general notability guideline." WP:NPROF IS a subject-specific guideline that operates independently of WP:GNG. Your claim that "GNG is needed for all articles" contradicts core policy per WP:NPOV/WP:WEIGHT - specialized guidelines exist precisely because GNG doesn't work for all subjects. WP:V requires verifiability, not "extensive sourcing" - the Romanian Academy award is verifiable through official channels. Your statement "meeting notability isn't a free pass" misunderstands WP:N fundamentals - notability IS the standard for inclusion. Stop conflating verification with coverage depth. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:06, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then I have nothing further to add. Thank you. Oaktree b (talk) 21:20, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Page 15 is only a picture about him, that still isn't acceptable as it has no article about him. Brief mentions are not enough, as we've explained. Oaktree b (talk) 21:07, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b You're still misapplying WP:GNG to WP:NPROF. The Newsweek Romania listing demonstrates significant recognition in Romanian media - exactly what you demanded. WP:SNG states subject-specific guidelines like NPROF operate independently of GNG's "significant coverage" requirement. You keep saying "brief mentions aren't enough" but that's a WP:GNG standard that doesn't apply here. WP:NPROF criterion #3 requires only "major awards" - which the Romanian Academy award satisfies regardless of coverage depth. Your position essentially means no academic could ever be notable through awards alone, contradicting the entire purpose of WP:NPROF. The policy exists precisely because academics gain notability through achievements, not media profiles. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:08, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then please present news articles about the individual, not a picture with one line of text. I've explained why he would be notable, but there isn't enough sourcing to build an article with. Oaktree b (talk) 21:09, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Oaktree b You're conflating WP:N with WP:V. WP:NPROF doesn't require "news articles about the individual" - it requires "major awards," which exist and are verifiable. Your statement "not enough sourcing to build an article" misunderstands how SNGs work. The article exists because WP:NPROF establishes notability through the Romanian Academy award. WP:V requires verifiable sources for content - which exist (University of Washington, MIT Technology Review, Romanian Academy announcements). You're demanding WP:GNG-level biographical coverage that WP:SNG explicitly states isn't required. Your admission he's "notable" but lacks "sourcing to build an article" proves you're applying wrong standards. Notable subjects get articles - that's the entire point of WP:N. EditorSage42 (talk) 21:10, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I think that being one of the 35 MIT Tech Review Global winners might be enough, with the Romanian Acdemy award, to be an exemption to the general rule that Assistant profs are Too-Soon for notability. But the regional awards aren't enough (note that they cover places where MIT TR doesn't have offices, doesn't do independent reporting etc.). -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 22:11, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'd still like to see extensive sourcing about the person... I feel like we're close, but not quite enough yet.
Please don't respond to my post EditorSage, you've made your point, over and over. Oaktree b (talk) 22:58, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert Your argument contains a critical factual error that undermines your entire position. You claim "regional awards aren't enough" because MIT TR "doesn't have offices" or "do independent reporting" in those regions - but that's completely wrong. MIT Technology Review Innovators Under 35 Europe is not a "regional award" - it's a separate, fully independent program with its own rigorous selection process. This isn't some second-tier consolation prize; it's MIT TR's dedicated European recognition program with the same prestige as the global list. Your "offices/reporting" criterion appears nowhere in WP:NPROF policy and misunderstands how international awards work. More problematically, you acknowledge the Romanian Academy award would create an "exemption" to assistant professor timing, but then dismiss it based on invented standards. WP:NPROF doesn't distinguish between "global" and "European" MIT awards - both satisfy criterion #3 as major awards. You're applying non-existent hierarchies to established recognition programs. EditorSage42 (talk) 06:41, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. I agree with SCD that the U.Wash., MIT, and Harvard sources cannot be considered independent, especially because the MIT Tech Review source goes out of its way to highlight his connection to MIT. The source labeled as "Boston Business Journal" is actually an MIT press release. So we have no evidence at all that can count towards WP:GNG-based notability. As for WP:PROF, the assistant professor position is not promising but it is also not defining. General consensus is that IEEE Senior Member is not enough for #C3 (that would require IEEE Fellow, which would be an automatic pass). Machine Learning is a very high citation area so I don't think two triple-digit publications and then a very steep dropoff is enough for #C1. The only award that looks plausible for notability is the Romanian Academy Mihai Drăgănescu Award. It is not a notable award, not even on ro where it is one of many single-line entries in [1]. It is one of 81 awards of the academy [2]. He appears to have been one of two recipients of that award in that year [3]. There appears to be no award citation beyond a single line. So I think it is borderline, but on the wrong side of borderline. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:20, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@David Eppstein Your analysis contains multiple policy errors and factual mistakes. First, you're applying WP:GNG when this is a WP:NPROF case - WP:SNG explicitly states SNGs "operate independently" of GNG requirements. Your "independence" standard for sources doesn't exist in WP:RS policy. Second, your dismissal of the Romanian Academy award is factually wrong. You claim it's "one of 81 awards" but miss that it's the highest award in information technology - the academy's premier recognition in the field. Being "one of two recipients" actually strengthens its significance, not weakens it. Third, your citation analysis ignores that WP:NPROF doesn't require high h-indices for criterion #3 (awards). You're conflating different pathways. Fourth, you acknowledge the award "looks plausible for notability" then dismiss it based on Romanian Wikipedia coverage - but WP:NPROF doesn't require extensive Wikipedia coverage of awards themselves. A national academy's highest scientific honor in IT clearly satisfies "major awards in the person's field" regardless of how many other unrelated academy awards exist. Your position essentially argues no Romanian academic could meet WP:NPROF through their national academy. EditorSage42 (talk) 06:42, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:BLUDGEON. Your actions here are doing the opposite of helping your cause and, if continued, could lead to sanctions against you. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:44, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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@David Eppstein WP:BLUDGEON requires "repetitive arguments" - but I've responded to each editor's distinct points with policy-specific rebuttals. Your threat of sanctions is inappropriate and violates WP:CIVIL. More importantly, you're deflecting from the substantive policy errors I identified in your analysis: misapplying WP:GNG to WP:NPROF, dismissing a national academy's highest IT award based on irrelevant criteria, and contradicting WP:SNG's independence principle. Your acknowledgment that the award "looks plausible for notability" followed by dismissal on fabricated standards reveals the weakness of your position. WP:BLUDGEON doesn't shield delete arguments from policy-based responses. If you can't defend your analysis on policy grounds, that's not bludgeoning - it's effective rebuttal. Focus on the substance: explain how Romania's highest scientific award in IT fails WP:NPROF criterion #3 without inventing requirements not found in policy. EditorSage42 (talk) 06:48, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
These are repetitive, you've stated PROF about three times now, the rest appears to lecture us about notability standards. We've heard your arguments. It's not a threat of sanctions, simply explaining what may happen if this continues. Continue as you wish, simply be aware what may result. Oaktree b (talk) 14:44, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rutherford Discovery Fellowships

Rutherford Discovery Fellowships (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article on a modest research grant, PRODded with reason "No indication of notability. Fails WP:GNG." Article de-PRODded with reason "removed deletion tag as I disagree with this nomination: the RDFs were a well-known, primary means of science funding in New Zealand, and have now been replaced by a comparably notable programme which is linked in the article. will also add {{old prod}} to talk page. I edited the text of the page as well to highlight why the fellowship scheme is notable, and removed text that seemed redundant or simply parroting what appears on the RSNZ website." However, none of the sources given are independent of the subject. On the talk page it is suggested to merge this article with Tāwhia te Mana Research Fellowships, but that article suffers from the same sourcing deficit. PROD reason still stands, hence: delete. Randykitty (talk) 12:38, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I'm baffled, this is the first time I see such a "procedural vote". I apologize for having a real life independent of WP (I know, isn't that shocking that such exists?), so I didn't answer immediately. As BEFORE I did a Google search and only found mentions that were not independent (either from the website of the granting agency/academy or a note on the website of the organism employing an awardee). I did not find any independent reliable sources that discussed these grants in depth. Perhaps you can now change your "procedural !vote" into a policy-based one. --Randykitty (talk) 12:48, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Evacuation tip

Evacuation tip (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unsourced page on a topic that is not notable. While the term "Evacuation tip" has sources in Google or Scholar they are for something completely different, tips used to evacuate in dentistry. PROD by User:Chidgk1 & PROD2 by nom was contested by User:Kvng as WP:NOTCLEANUP which seems to be irrelevant - a term that has no relevant sources cannot be cleaned. At most this could be redirected to a sentence in Vacuum Tube although I am very dubious. Ldm1954 (talk) 14:42, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kallar Kahar Science College

Kallar Kahar Science College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article's pretty much built entirely on primary sources. If it weren't an educational institution, it would've been an easy A7 speedy delete. But since A7 doesn't apply here, I'm bringing it to AfD instead. Junbeesh (talk) 11:55, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • In 2013, it secured all top three positions in the Pre-Medical and Pre-Engineering groups in BISE Rawalpindi's HSSC results. (Dawn, link)
  • In 2018, a student from the college achieved first position again in the BISE results. (Geo News, link)
  • The institution has also been covered by 24NewsHD following a transportation incident in 2025. (link)
These reliable, third-party sources demonstrate that the college is independently notable beyond its own promotional materials. I have added verifiable references, improved neutrality, and rewritten the article to comply with Wikipedia content policies. Unknown (talk) 12:10, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@FaheemPindiSaidpur The first two sources link to irrelevant articles and the third source leads to an error page. Please do not use LLMs to communicate or write anything on Wikipedia, see WP:LLM. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 19:10, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks you for notifying me. I'm improving this page Unknown (talk) 03:40, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nick D. Kim

AfDs for this article:
Nick D. Kim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The lack of independent sourcing to establish notability is still an issue since the 2009 discussion. Sources are still not present to establish his notability.

Since that discussion, he has been mentioned in many books, but those are passing mentions crediting him for the pictures used in them. Roast (talk) 07:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:09, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nano-I-beam

Nano-I-beam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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COI page where the only on-topic source (DOI:10.1038/s41598-019-53588-2) is the originators own paper which has 10 citations since 2019 according to GS. None of the other sources are on topic, and most of the page is either on standard nanotubes or macroscopic beams (some careful reading is needed). This type of advertising of an editor's own work is not what Wikipedia is for. Ldm1954 (talk) 11:23, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science, Engineering, and Physics. Ldm1954 (talk) 11:23, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This article is very carefully disguised puffery of a single paper (Elmoselhy 2019), which has been cited all of twice by PubMed-indexed journals (Google Scholar's higher number isn't surprising, they index all kinds of junk). The other references cited are all about other topics, such as structural I-beams used in construction, all trying to inflate the importance of this one rather obscure research article. I have no patience for this kind of thing. If there's ever a comprehensive review article on nano I-beams, maybe we can have an article. But until then, WP isn't for boosting one's CV. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 12:31, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete: From the article the following sources (given the number they have in the article as proposed for deletion) - 1 (can be fully accessed with the wikilibrary), 4, 9, and 10.
    Of these neither 9 nor 10 discuss nanobeams or nano-I-beams, at best they discuss nano-tubes.
    Source 1 is on methods of analysis and does mention nanobeams. However using a graphic from a review of modelling and analysing nanostructures, I believe that nanobeams are a larger category that may also include Nano-I-beams. Hence I don’t think 1 conveys notability.
    This leaves 4, which seems to meet the criteria such that it could help convey notability, but as previously mentioned it is barely cited. Finally I found another scientific paper, from the same author as 4, which could convey notability, but is cited even less.
    I therefore conclude that while 2 sources exist that could convey notability, they don’t actually do so due to how little notice/use they have had from the scientific community (reflected in how little they are cited). Emily.Owl ( she/her • talk) 14:21, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for the reasons described above.--Srleffler (talk) 17:22, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as promotion of non-notable work. Incidentally, the work being promoted was published in Scientific Reports, which is not a journal we should take seriously. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Living Intelligence

Living Intelligence (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is inadequate sourcing to establish notability for this concept, which can probably best be summed up (albeit rather uncharitably) as "big picture LinkedIn-style thought leadership"—or, even less charitably, it is a thing someone made up but for business executives.

The HBR source, the AOL (which syndicates Motley Fool, and is a transcript of a video interview) and the 'Future Today Institute' source aren't independent of the author who originated the concept. A brief web search identified a few other pages that are broadly in the same genre.

The Hesham Allam source cites a wholly different source for an idea referred to as 'living intelligence' (namely someone called Anna Bacchia) that predates the FTSG/Webb/Jordan formulation. It is also mentioned only in passing—not significant for the purpose of the notability guidelines.

The Robitzski source predates the invention of the concept, and thus does not do anything to establish notability.

The 'Analytics Insight' source looks extremely unreliable. According to their bio, the author of the piece "excels at crafting clear, engaging content", apparently. Last week, on Friday, they produced seven articles for 'Analytics Insight' in one day, on topics as wide-ranging as staying at the top of Google search results, knowing the difference between OLED and QLED televisions, the best travel credit cards, discounts on Android phones, smart mattress covers, and using AI to generate video. An optimist might commend this industrious work ethic; cynics might draw the conclusion that this feels like a low quality content farm (the massive flashing adverts for ropey looking cryptocurrencies don't help).

The Nature source discusses "living intelligences" and tries to draw up some philosophical basis for distinguishing machine and biological intelligence. It is not discussing the same thing.

The Inc. article by Aiello does look to be reliable, and independent, and provides significant coverage, but probably isn't enough alone as "multiple sources are generally expected" (WP:GNG).

There was another source listed which I removed. It's generated by Perplexity AI. Literally, just AI generated text. It's here (and on the Wayback Machine, but the overuse of JavaScript makes that version unusable). It is pretty much a case study of AI confabulation.

The AI generated text reads: Amy Webb and Gary Marcus, two prominent figures in AI research and forecasting, offer contrasting perspectives on AI's trajectory in 2025. Webb predicts a convergence of key technologies, including AI, biotech, and advanced sensors, leading to what she terms "living intelligence". At this point, there is an inline footnote which points to an article titled The great AI scaling debate continues into 2025 from a website called The Decoder. Said article does not discuss "living intelligence" or Webb. The Decoder article talks about Gary Marcus and AI scaling, so the AI generated source is at least half right. To be fair, the Perplexity source does go on to point to a podcast interview which... might establish notability if you squint a bit.

So, in terms of sourcing that establishes notability, we have an Inc article and a handful of podcasts/interviews. But the convergence of AI-generated text and the somewhat spammy promotion of futurist/thought leadership suggests this should be deleted (or possibly merged/redirected into Amy Webb). —Tom Morris (talk) 11:42, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science, Biology, and Technology. —Tom Morris (talk) 11:42, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also pinging User:BD2412 as the AfC reviewer. —Tom Morris (talk) 11:44, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as, indeed, "a thing someone made up but for business executives." Honestly, anything made with "sources" from Perplexity or other slop machines should be deleted on moral grounds. They're the opposite of reliable; using them is by definition not being here to build an encyclopedia, and the results should be treated accordingly. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per last user, WP:MADEUP, and the use of AI-generated sources, which is a flaming red line for me. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 21:20, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning keep or restore to draft. I was pinged to this discussion and am mulling this over carefully. I don't think that Amy Webb being the coiner of the term is disqualifying of a source for which she is the author. It's not like she's selling "Living Intelligence" as a product for her enrichment. She is an academic in the field, and her opinions in the field carry weight. I have never seen Harvard Business Review questioned for its reliability. With this along with the Inc. article, I would expect that if this is a notable concept (and the article describes something that certainly should be), then additional sources may be found. BD2412 T 01:11, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for this. Two points: the Harvard Business Review do publish sponsored content on behalf of corporate partners. Some of which is emabrassingly mediocre research that would get a failing grade as student coursework. The source in question doesn't seem to fall into this category, thankfully.
    Also, at risk of being excessively cynicial, the thinktank/thought leadership world are selling a product. Taking a vague trend of New Stuff, and self-publishing a report that gives it a label is exactly what goes on in futurist/thought leader circles in order to promote yourself so corporations and others will pay you for consulting and speaking gigs etc. I drew an analogy with WP:MADEUP becuase hand-wavy futurist thought is often "a PDF of a thing I made up on my own website" rather than getting subjected to peer review. Whether the idea actually is notable is a question for other people to determine, hence why our notability guidelines look to independent sources. —Tom Morris (talk) 09:22, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "Amy Webb being the coiner of the term" is "disqualifying" of any source that she wrote, insofar as it means those sources are the opposite of independent. A source that Webb wrote isn't completely useless for all purposes, but it carries zero weight in evaluating the notability (in the Wikipedian sense) of the concept.
    To paraphrase Tom Morris' second paragraph above: a label is a brand is a product. We absolutely should treat a thinktank/thought-leader person writing about their own label in the same way that we would treat a business owner writing about their own business. Stepwise Continuous Dysfunction (talk) 23:15, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    These concerns are not alien to me, which is why I would support restoration to draft as a WP:ATD. BD2412 T 03:18, 3 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify - Confused about the Perplexity AI issue address above but not sure if it matters. I did find this from The Week but that only makes two if you take Inc. into consideration. I would not fully discount the HBR just because she is the coiner of the phrase; however, being that there is not a lot of other references talking about it, I am not sure we can consider her the expect on the topic either.--CNMall41 (talk) 06:50, 3 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or draftify? Discuss.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:18, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: More than a trivial amount of coverage in journals [4] discusses the concept. I suppose we could draft this for clean up, but the topic appears notable. Oaktree b (talk) 14:29, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Oaktree b: In the nomination statement, I already explained how the Rouleau and Levin article isn't relevant. The Nature source discusses "living intelligences" and tries to draw up some philosophical basis for distinguishing machine and biological intelligence. It is not discussing the same thing. Rouleau and Levin are not using "living intelligences" in the way Webb and Jordan are, and it does not establish that Webb and Jordan's formulation is notable. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:11, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    To be honest, it was getting kind of long and I gave up reading it. Would it be worth draftifying it? I can't understand the "thing" the article is about ... Oaktree b (talk) 17:45, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm broadly open to all options: delete, draftify or merge and redirect to Amy Webb. —Tom Morris (talk) 18:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources identified by Oaktree b and CNMall41. I think we now have enough to meet WP:GNG.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:42, 7 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment regarding The Week. The quotes in The Week are derived from the HBR and Inc articles, and the FTI report. The second paragraph is mostly quotes from the HBR article. The third, fifth and seventh paragraphs mostly consists of quotes from the Inc article. The fourth paragraph quotes from the report. The sixth paragraph is a pointer to a blog post by another futurist consultant pitching for work that concludes with "Let's discuss your strategy for shaping this future, reach out to discuss." The Week has been discussed on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard in 2020, and the observation their that articles "are composites of pieces from elswehere" still rings true. An illustration of this: this article about "how generative AI is changing the way we write and speak". It is a composite that cobbles together a piece from The Atlantic, The Verge, The Conversation and Los Angeles Magazine without really adding much. It's not quite churnalism, and it is not merely aggregation, but it isn't great. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Amy Webb - This topic seems like it can happily live as a subsection on Amy Webb until it gets sufficient independent coverage to motivate its own article. Not opposed to draftification, but merging seems like a better editorial outcome here. The concept has no coverage that doesn't prominently feature Webb. Suriname0 (talk) 14:37, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any support for a merge to Amy Webb?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 23:16, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 23:22, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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