Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 Policy Technical Proposals Idea lab WMF Miscellaneous 
Shortcut
This page is for discussion about the page Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) only. You may want one of the village pump subpages above, or one of the links on the village pump main page. Irrelevant discussions will be moved or removed.

FAQ addition?

[edit]

It would be useful, at least to me, if you could provide a link in the FAQs to the page where it indicates whether there is a system lag that relates to the English Wikipedia. I find myself often searching for this information when there are delays to bot reports or other pages that see regular updating and the Wikimedia pages listed to not have this information. Thanks. Liz Read! Talk! 20:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz, do you mean WP:REPLAG? ― Qwerfjkltalk 20:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I found it https://replag.toolforge.org/. I think of it as a "system lag", not a replication lag. And now I know there is a shortcut, I won't forget it! Thanks, Qwerfjkl. And now that I see that there is no lag, I must clear my cache as there are structural features that are absent from a page I'm working with that are usually there. Plus, I have way too many open tabs, so it's clearly my computer, not the database servers. Liz Read! Talk! 20:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vector-2022 blank regions

[edit]

Now that I use Vector-2022 (default skin), and the TOC is moved away, it feels kind of weird for the huge white blank space on the left of centralised discussion template. Any redesigning ideas? Perhaps, bring the search boxes down to fill the void? —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 14:46, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CX Zoom I think you are on the wrong page, for general feedback on V22 please see Wikipedia talk:Vector 2022. — xaosflux Talk 15:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't intend it as a general feedback. Actually I'm just talking about redesigning the lead of VPT, and other Village pumps. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 15:36, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ahhh! OK. Got a mockup? — xaosflux Talk 15:40, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's no particular need to have the clear there. Izno (talk) 19:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ANI does it better by putting the centralized discussion box and archives side-by-side, rather than (the current version here) having the archives take up full-width space. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:02, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Teahouse

[edit]

This is the only page I could find that as an IP I can post to anymore when it comes to help page. Just wanted to inform all something is wrong with the banner/header at Wikipedia:Teahouse. 50.100.81.254 (talk) 06:39, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, WP:HD is semi-protected until the 25th. Anyway, Teahouse works for me. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:45, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wait, Teahouse is semi-protected until tomorrow, so you couldn't post there anyway. Lol. I suggest registration so you don't have to deal with such things. Anyway, "the banner/header" should still work for you, so I don't have an answer for you about that. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed one thing that was clearly unintended. Was that it? Izno (talk) 07:13, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The markup {{category tree all|Wikipedians looking for help|hideroot=on|mode=all|header=|showcount=on}} is currently rendering (for me, Firefox under Win 11 on laptop) as an empty square. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:07, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Skip to top and bottom

[edit]

I recently added {{skip to top and bottom}}—a template that improves the usability and accessibility of longer pages— to this VP.

I was reverted with the rather remarkable edit summary "rv, please establish consensus". I'd be interested to know if there is any sound reason for not including the template, other than a requirement to demonstrate consensus first (when it is, as every experienced editor should know, usually demonstrated by edits not being reverted for a good reason)?

Otherwise, is there consensus to add it? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:04, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd prefer to see a sound reason to include the template. "It adds accessibility and usability" is something that is not easily demonstrated, and in the default skins on both desktop and mobile the table of contents is trivial to access, so this is not a particular concern in those cases regardless. Izno (talk) 18:27, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"It adds accessibility and usability" is both a sound reason to add it and empirical. It may not add accessibility and usability for you, but it is not required to. It certainly adds accessibility and usability for me, and for others, and is easier to access than the table of contents. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:11, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I thought this would essentially turn into an ILIKEIT argument on your part. I'll leave this to others to (dis)agree to then. Izno (talk) 19:17, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You may have thought that. If so, you were wrong. It has practical, not aesthetic, benefit. But then, that's what I already said.
Noted you still offer no sound reason to remove it: the epitome of IDONTLIKEIT. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:25, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Noted you still offer no sound reason to remove it It duplicates function already provided by the skin. That is not an IDONTLIKEIT argument.
As I said, we can wait for someone else to chime in, I'm sure. Izno (talk) 20:42, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The function is not duplicated by the skin. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:11, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have it in my skin, Vector 2022. I can click (Top) in the TOC to go to the top of the page, and I can click the last item in the TOC to go to the last section of the page, which on a typical page will show me the bottom of the page. I can also hit Command-uparrow or Command-downarrow to get to the top or the bottom of the page, respectively; there are probably other shortcuts as well. I don't see why additional markup that blocks part of the right sidebar is helpful on this page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:19, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad that works for you. Hitting Command-uparrow or Command-downarrow would require a mouse-using reader to take their hand off the mouse and put it on the keyboard. For someone with mobility or dexterity issues, for example, that's an accessibility barrier, which a mouse-clickable template, with a decent sized target, removes.
As I said: the skin [sic] does not have that functionality. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that's a good idea, as those floating elements overlap text on the page. — xaosflux Talk 21:25, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's a criticism of the template (which is used on over 1600 similar pages) in general, not its relevance to this page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:34, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think this page, specifically, is too important to have this obscuring template on it. — xaosflux Talk 00:22, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If usability and accessibility of longer pages is the real issue, then this template is not the solution. Fix the skin that needs fixing or use a different skin. Yeah, those of us who don't want the skippy template can opt out, but why should we have to do that just because you want the skippy template. Perhaps visit Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests to get someone there to write you a script that does what you want without imposing your wants on anyone else.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:07, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Fix the skin that needs fixing" I'll be happy to remove this template - hell, I'll nominate it for deletion - when even just our most popular skins have the functionality. As you acknowledge, by suggesting they need fixing, they currently do not. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:46, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Is this the floating up/down skippy things that obscure the desktop toggle on minerva (mobile), as seen on the Help desk? This is a bit tongue in cheek, but by adding them here you reduce mobile usability while increasing the chance of someone tech-minded struggling with it and fixing it. For 1600 pages apparently. Commander Keane (talk) 11:05, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If "accessibility of long pages" really is a concern, then someone should get mobile browser makers to add it to the browsers so it can help people across the entire Internet. Failing that, someone should make a browser extension for it. Failing that, someone should make a gadget that people who actually want this can turn on. Failing that, a user script. Haphazardly adding a template to random pages (even if you've gotten away with it on some) and trying to shout down objections from those for whom it reduces accessibility is not a good solution. Anomie⚔ 12:19, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, investigating the "over 1600 pages" claim, I find that of the 1665 pages the template is currently transcluded on, 232 are user or user talk pages and 1366 are subpages of Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals/Journals cited by Wikipedia/ (due to this edit to Template:JCW-Main), leaving only 67 other pages. Anomie⚔ 12:35, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I personally find the template pretty distracting and not something that should be implemented on a per-page basis. The table of contents in the default skin works fine, sections on mobile are usually collapsed. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 13:21, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterday, I reverted the edits that added this template to the other village pumps. I did that before I saw this discussion but I would have reverted the edits anyway. My objections to this template are that it obscures part of the contents of the page while duplicating functionality that is already available in multiple places e.g., the table of contents, the vertical scrollbar, the home and end keys, the scroll wheel on my mouse. Several of those tools are only available for some readers and editors (i.e., those accessing from a computer, those using a mouse with a scroll wheel) but some are available to everyone. ElKevbo (talk) 23:32, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not one of the things you mention offers the same functionality. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:32, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst not my finest work, I just wrote User:Qwerfjkl/scripts/skipToTopAndBottom.js so you can have those buttons on all the pages you want without causing any upset. Hope this helps. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:57, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You have my thanks, Qwerfjkl, for this. I find this template exceedingly useless and annoying (yes, i'm aware that's an I[DONT]LIKEIT argument, along with several others in this discussion), so i am grateful to you for making its functionality available to those who want it without forcing it upon those who find it an unfortunate addition. Cheers, ~ LindsayHello 18:00, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's very kind, thank you. I will give it a try.
However, it resolves the issue for me, and anyone else who is lucky enough to find out about it, but not everyone—newbies and casual visitors, for example—who would benefit from the template version. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:24, 1 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Village_pump_(technical)&oldid=1288229434"