Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohammed Shakir

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 13:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammed Shakir

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Appears to fail WP:ATHLETE as he hasn't played in a professional league Spiderone (talk) 16:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Spiderone (talk) 16:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence he has played in a fully-pro league, so fails WP:ATHLETE. Also fails WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 16:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Mohammed Shakir is the main starter for his team and he is called for the Olympic team that will be played in October in Tehran. Mussav (talk) 17:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Um, the Olympics aren't until 2012! Giant Snowman 17:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Iraq Olympic team will play in an official tournament that will be held in Tehran in October and this tournament is called the 2009 Islamic Solidarity Games. Mussav (talk) 18:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of the notability of playing in such a tournament, it isn't until October, and is once again a case of WP:CRYSTALBALL. Giant Snowman 18:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He played in the AFC Champions League 2008 with Arbil (his number is 20) [1]. Mussav (talk) 14:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The no. 20 at that link has a very different name from that in the Wiki article? Eldumpo (talk) 20:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's Ahmaed Mohammed Karzan, I knew that I added a source of Karzan being played in the Champions League. I thought I added this info there but it seems I added it here mistakenly. sorry for confusing you. Mussav (talk) 20:22, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. -- Cybercobra (talk) 04:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions. -- Cybercobra (talk) 04:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- Cybercobra (talk) 04:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - has played in a top-level, continent-wide, professional competition. Giant Snowman 14:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm striking through this and unstriking my previous 'Delete' vote, as the source proves notability for a player with a different name. Giant Snowman 09:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 22:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - plays in top level of Iraqi football; Football is huge in Iraq, and there is no indication that the league isn't professional. Nfitz (talk) 03:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - It seems the first keep vote is now invalid since it was revolving around a source about a different player. Spiderone 08:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Where do you get that? A Mohhammed Shakir for the same team is listed as scoring goals in games - such as May 1 2009 - [2]. Nfitz (talk) 04:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm talking about Mussav's keep vote which involved Karzan and not Shakir Spiderone 08:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - His reference to Shakir wasn't in his keep vote - it seems to have been several posts later, when he seems to have posted to the wrong AfD, for which he later apologised. That mistake doesn't invalidate his keep vote ... and below he has since attempted to make it clear he is still Keep. I'm afraid you are only clouding the issue. He meets WP:Athlete playing in a league listed at List of professional sports leagues#Football: Association Football. Nfitz (talk) 22:31, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - He is called for the Olympic team and he will represnts Iraq in Islamic Tournament in Tehran. Mussav (talk) 21:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You already said that, please don't !vote twice -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NW (Talk) 01:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This footballer plays in a top tier league in a country. While he may not be known to us and the article lacks depth, it is no reason to delete it.--DragonFly31 (talk) 09:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Dragonfly31. His team play in the Iraqi Premier League. Why is that insufficient to make him a notable athlete? SpinningSpark 14:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Because the league isn't professional therefore failing WP:ATHLETE Spiderone 15:26, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wikipedia says it's profesional - List_of_professional_sports_leagues#Football:_Association_Football Nfitz (talk) 07:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - That list is utter rubbish. There is no proof that the Bangladeshi, Azerbaijani, Cypriot, Albanian and Iraqi leagues are professional. Spiderone 08:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - Only the Iraqi league is relevant to this debate. Do you have proof it is not professional? It may possibly not be, but you are conducting original research by assuming it is not. SpinningSpark 12:29, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        If there is no proof for either then can we assume it isn't professional or that it's professional? Spiderone 12:35, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        [3] talks about the Iraqi professional league which indicates that such an animal exists. SpinningSpark 13:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Per GiantSnowman. Even if the League is fully pro, there is no evidence he has played in it. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 21:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- He seems to have scored a few goals in this league he doesn't play in. SpinningSpark 23:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Prove Provided - SpinningSpark gave you the proves so I think the final answer is keep. Thanks SpinningSpark for your efforts. Mussav (talk) 01:57, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The final answer isn't keep until an admin says it is Spiderone 08:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. According to this, Iraqi clubs were excluded from the 2009 Champions League because the league isn't fully professional. This shows that this player fails WP:ATHLETE, and there's a lack of available sources to establish notability. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 13:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - We couldn't host clubs matches and promise for security at that time so our scors wasn't high for the AFC Champions league standars but now the AFC gave us the green light to host matches (Clubs and International matches) so I guess our score got higher and we might play in the Champions League next season. Mussav (talk) 18:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Bettia -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:54, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is a player in the top league of a large country where football is the number one sport. Let's not get into lawyering about whether every player in the league is paid a full-time wage and use a bit of common sense: policies and guidelines are to be followed by their spirit, not by their letter, and can anyone seriously say that the spirit of our guidelines means that a player in Iraq's top league is less notable than a fourth-level player in England? Phil Bridger (talk) 22:06, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fourth tier in England is full-pro, as per Bettia's source the Iraqi league isn't. The inclusion criteria for sportspeople is they must have played in at a fully-professional level, not a top league of a country. There's also no independent media sources about the subject of this article, failing WP:GNG. --Jimbo^[online] 18:32, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.