Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 September 11
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September 11
[edit]
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 04:02, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- File:Thevoiceph.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Hollyckuhno (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
The image is not really from the 'Official' The Voice Facebook account. So image is a fan made one. There are no official accounts available in internet as of this moment, and ABS-CBN has not yet created any social media account for the show. Renzoy16 | Contact Me 17:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Also the management of the network is still finalizing for the name of the franchise so there are still no official title cards/logo available in the internet as of this moment.--Renzoy16 | Contact Me 17:21, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT⚡ 04:02, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- File:U+2318.gif (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Tarikash (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
superseded by Commons version: commons:File:U+2318.gif. Ineligible for F8 due to the different crops. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 17:00, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: delete. No compelling keep argument that explains why points one and eight of were WP:NFCC adequately addressed. There is no difference of whether King was at work or at the grocery store, the location of the subject is does not significantly increase the understanding of the reader, nor would the reader suddenly lose any understanding of the article without it. — ξxplicit
- File:Bret King.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Viriditas (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Disputed speedy. This is a non-free image of a man in a uniform. The appearance of the man is of absolutely no significance as far as I can see, and so I fail to see how this image adds significantly to the article on which it is used. J Milburn (talk) 19:35, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong keep. This image depicts deputy Bret King,[1] the founder of the Faces of Meth drug prevention program, booking new arrestees at the Portland county jail. This image is derived from the documentary film The Meth Epidemic, a FRONTLINE film produced by the WGBH educational foundation. The film is widely used by K-12 teachers for "classroom discussions on the impact and dangers of meth use."[2] This image illustrates the background section of the article which shows how the deputy got the idea for the program, and how his personal experience working with drug arrestees led to its development. The image puts a human face on the creator of the program, and allows the reader to view him at work and to understand how being at work every day and seeing the changing faces of the prisoners led him to form the program. The use of this image is in parity with the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation to "develop educational content". Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I fail to see any explanation of what this image is adding to the article. This image depicts deputy Bret King,[3] the founder of the Faces of Meth drug prevention program, booking new arrestees at the Portland county jail. This image is derived from the documentary film The Meth Epidemic, a FRONTLINE film produced by the WGBH educational foundation. The film is widely used by K-12 teachers for "classroom discussions on the impact and dangers of meth use."[4] Ok, sure, that's fine. This image illustrates the background section of the article which shows how the deputy got the idea for the program, and how his personal experience working with drug arrestees led to its development. If you say so. The image puts a human face on the creator of the program... Ok. Firstly, as far as I can tell, he's still alive (the image fails NFCC#1 in that regard). Secondly, I have no idea why it's important to "put a human face" to the creator. As far as I know, there is no guideline, policy or consensus anywhere that says non-free images can be used in film articles to "put a human face" to the creator of the film. (NFCC#8 failure.) ...and allows the reader to view him at work and to understand how being at work every day and seeing the changing faces of the prisoners led him to form the program. Why is an image needed for that? Can't you just write that? That's not a difficult concept; we can understand that without seeing a bloke in a uniform (NFCC#1, and perhaps 8). The use of this image is in parity with the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation to "develop educational content". That may be the case, or may not be. However, we assess images, not against the goals of the Foundation, but against our non-free content criteria. This, as I have said, seems to fail. J Milburn (talk) 18:01, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- There are a number of errors in your assessment of this image. 1) It isn't only an image of a "man in a uniform", it's an image of the founder of the drug prevention program (the subject of the article) booking new arrestees (the source of the mug shots of repeat offenders known as "Faces of Meth") at the Portland county jail. This would become clear if you would read the article and the section where the image is used to illustrate the topic. 2) The image directly illustrates the background section of the article, allowing the reader to see the founder of the program, showing how the deputy got the idea for the program at work, and how his personal experience with drug arrestees resulted in the images. The offender can be seen in the left side of the image with his back turned to the camera. This isn't "me" saying this as you claim above ("If you say so") it's the transcription of the image taken from the film where the screenshot appears, as the caption explains. 3) As a result of the above, the image meets NFCC#1 and NFCC#8, since a) there is no free equivalent possible as this part of the subject takes place behind closed doors in a prison environment that is rarely seen by the public, and b) the image is taken from a documentary film used for educational purposes; while properly sourced text describes the image,text alone cannot convey or illustrate the emotional and human component, namely, the look of concern on the deputy's face as he is booking arrestees, ("Shocked at the effect of meth on addicts who were being arrested over and over") a concern that directly led him to start the Faces of Meth program ("King started collecting their booking photos"). Text alone cannot convey or illustrate this aspect of the subject, as the image gives the reader insight into the closed booking environment of a prison facility where the deputy first got the idea to start the Faces of Meth program, as well as his emotional concern for the health and well being of the arrestees that led him to implement the program. Furthermore, I strongly object to the continued and persistent deletion of images with human and empathic components. We see, time and time again, images that depict human beings involved in friendships, relationships, interaction, and in sensitive positions constantly nominated for deletion because the nominator doesn't understand or empathize with the image, while time and time again, non-free images of inanimate objects are left alone and allowed to illustrate the encyclopedia. Viriditas (talk) 20:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- As I have said, it's not clear why the appearance of the man in uniform is important. You can tell me about him all you like; that's not going to suddenly mean that we need a picture of him. You keep saying that the picture "allow[s] the reader to see the founder of the program"- I accept that, it's not a difficult concept. What you have failed to explain is why it's so urgent that we have to see him. Why is his physical appearance so absolutely essential to the article? Some of your claims are just nonsense- this does not show how "the deputy got the idea for the program at work". This isn't "me" saying this as you claim above ("If you say so") it's the transcription of the image taken from the film where the screenshot appears, as the caption explains. I said "If you say so" because I was accepting what you said at face value- it's just that it wasn't significant. You've said a lot of things, but precious few of them actually help establish what this image is adding to the article- you're just describing the image. If you really think that this is urgently needed and passes NFCC#8 because it shows "the look of concern on the deputy's face as he is booking arrestees", then, with respect, I'm not sure you're taking NFCC#8 as seriously as it should be taken. We see, time and time again, images that depict human beings involved in friendships, relationships, interaction, and in sensitive positions constantly nominated for deletion because the nominator doesn't understand or empathize with the image, while time and time again, non-free images of inanimate objects are left alone and allowed to illustrate the encyclopedia. I don't care what an image shows; if it doesn't meet the NFCC, it'll go, whether it's a crying baby or a spoon. There's not actually anything about emotional aspects the NFCC... J Milburn (talk) 09:27, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- It's very clear why the image is important and it has been explained to you at least twice now, with both of your responses indicating that you refuse to acknowledge the explanation in any way. Instead, you keep referring to a "man in a uniform" even after you have been corrected twice. This is not an image of a man in a uniform, and both the image, the caption, and the background section where the image appears make this apparent. Since you're unable to change you erroneous assessment when faced with evidence that contradicts your stubborn beliefs, there is not much I can say as I've already countered your claims. The image meets the NFCC and is closely aligned with Wikipedia's purpose in providing educational content. This irreplaceable image aids the understanding of the reader above and beyond the naked text, giving the reader a rare look inside the prison booking environment of the founder of the program and showing him at work where he reviews arrestees that come before him each day. The image illustrates the conception of the program in situ, while at the same time giving the reader insight into the emotional state and concern of the founder with the health and well being of the inmates—a concern that is at once apparent on his face and resulted in the founding of the Faces of Meth program. This emotional, human component of the image gives the reader a rare look into the inner workings of the prison where the program began, and the image on King's face communicates to the reader the empathy and concern the booking officer has for the arrestees in his care, and how this concern led him to implement the program. Text alone cannot communicate this empathic relationship. This is not an image of a "man in a uniform" at all. I'm seeing a pattern of editors nominating images for deletion involving emotional depictions of humans interacting with other humans again and again. I get it, you can't see the importance of emotion and empathy but you must understand that others do, and that these subjects are significant and relevant to an encyclopedia. Viriditas (talk) 00:03, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- As I have said, it's not clear why the appearance of the man in uniform is important. You can tell me about him all you like; that's not going to suddenly mean that we need a picture of him. You keep saying that the picture "allow[s] the reader to see the founder of the program"- I accept that, it's not a difficult concept. What you have failed to explain is why it's so urgent that we have to see him. Why is his physical appearance so absolutely essential to the article? Some of your claims are just nonsense- this does not show how "the deputy got the idea for the program at work". This isn't "me" saying this as you claim above ("If you say so") it's the transcription of the image taken from the film where the screenshot appears, as the caption explains. I said "If you say so" because I was accepting what you said at face value- it's just that it wasn't significant. You've said a lot of things, but precious few of them actually help establish what this image is adding to the article- you're just describing the image. If you really think that this is urgently needed and passes NFCC#8 because it shows "the look of concern on the deputy's face as he is booking arrestees", then, with respect, I'm not sure you're taking NFCC#8 as seriously as it should be taken. We see, time and time again, images that depict human beings involved in friendships, relationships, interaction, and in sensitive positions constantly nominated for deletion because the nominator doesn't understand or empathize with the image, while time and time again, non-free images of inanimate objects are left alone and allowed to illustrate the encyclopedia. I don't care what an image shows; if it doesn't meet the NFCC, it'll go, whether it's a crying baby or a spoon. There's not actually anything about emotional aspects the NFCC... J Milburn (talk) 09:27, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- There are a number of errors in your assessment of this image. 1) It isn't only an image of a "man in a uniform", it's an image of the founder of the drug prevention program (the subject of the article) booking new arrestees (the source of the mug shots of repeat offenders known as "Faces of Meth") at the Portland county jail. This would become clear if you would read the article and the section where the image is used to illustrate the topic. 2) The image directly illustrates the background section of the article, allowing the reader to see the founder of the program, showing how the deputy got the idea for the program at work, and how his personal experience with drug arrestees resulted in the images. The offender can be seen in the left side of the image with his back turned to the camera. This isn't "me" saying this as you claim above ("If you say so") it's the transcription of the image taken from the film where the screenshot appears, as the caption explains. 3) As a result of the above, the image meets NFCC#1 and NFCC#8, since a) there is no free equivalent possible as this part of the subject takes place behind closed doors in a prison environment that is rarely seen by the public, and b) the image is taken from a documentary film used for educational purposes; while properly sourced text describes the image,text alone cannot convey or illustrate the emotional and human component, namely, the look of concern on the deputy's face as he is booking arrestees, ("Shocked at the effect of meth on addicts who were being arrested over and over") a concern that directly led him to start the Faces of Meth program ("King started collecting their booking photos"). Text alone cannot convey or illustrate this aspect of the subject, as the image gives the reader insight into the closed booking environment of a prison facility where the deputy first got the idea to start the Faces of Meth program, as well as his emotional concern for the health and well being of the arrestees that led him to implement the program. Furthermore, I strongly object to the continued and persistent deletion of images with human and empathic components. We see, time and time again, images that depict human beings involved in friendships, relationships, interaction, and in sensitive positions constantly nominated for deletion because the nominator doesn't understand or empathize with the image, while time and time again, non-free images of inanimate objects are left alone and allowed to illustrate the encyclopedia. Viriditas (talk) 20:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I fail to see any explanation of what this image is adding to the article. This image depicts deputy Bret King,[3] the founder of the Faces of Meth drug prevention program, booking new arrestees at the Portland county jail. This image is derived from the documentary film The Meth Epidemic, a FRONTLINE film produced by the WGBH educational foundation. The film is widely used by K-12 teachers for "classroom discussions on the impact and dangers of meth use."[4] Ok, sure, that's fine. This image illustrates the background section of the article which shows how the deputy got the idea for the program, and how his personal experience working with drug arrestees led to its development. If you say so. The image puts a human face on the creator of the program... Ok. Firstly, as far as I can tell, he's still alive (the image fails NFCC#1 in that regard). Secondly, I have no idea why it's important to "put a human face" to the creator. As far as I know, there is no guideline, policy or consensus anywhere that says non-free images can be used in film articles to "put a human face" to the creator of the film. (NFCC#8 failure.) ...and allows the reader to view him at work and to understand how being at work every day and seeing the changing faces of the prisoners led him to form the program. Why is an image needed for that? Can't you just write that? That's not a difficult concept; we can understand that without seeing a bloke in a uniform (NFCC#1, and perhaps 8). The use of this image is in parity with the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation to "develop educational content". That may be the case, or may not be. However, we assess images, not against the goals of the Foundation, but against our non-free content criteria. This, as I have said, seems to fail. J Milburn (talk) 18:01, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
delete - This is a mere image of some security guard. I don't see any significance of that security guard, even if it came from one TV program. --George Ho (talk) 11:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]Weak delete - Hmm... I almost forgot that this guard is also the founder of the program. This image is replaceable by a free image of this image, even if not available. --George Ho (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]- Sounds like you didn't read the discussion at all. It isn't a security guard and it isnt an image only of the founder and it isn't replaceable by any free image. It's an image taken by a documentary filmmaker for educational purposes inside the booking area of a prison showing how the founder got the idea for the program. You cannot replicate or replace this rare image with any free image because cameras aren't allowed in the facility unless one is a government official or a documentary filmmaker with the permission of the prison. In other words, the image is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 23:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- (Weak) Delete - If this image is of Bret King, an officer, as you told, and if he is not serving his sentence, then he might be still around in Oregon. If you can take a free photo of Bret King in Oregon in a place where allowed and with King's permission, then a free photo is needed. --George Ho (talk) 00:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, this is not an image "of" Bret King, it's an image of Bret King at work in the prison booking new arrestees. That's a completely different subject. It's possible that you didn't read the article or the caption to the image, or maybe you missed the arrestee in the left hand corner and Bret King working at the top right. The image illustrates how King got the idea for the drug prevention program at work while booking arrestees. It does not illustrate Bret King nor is it intended to illustrate Bret King, nor is that how the image is used in the article. The image illustrates the inception and founding of the concept of the "Faces of Meth" drug program, not a depiction of the person "Bret King". I am sorry if you are confused by the image name. The image of King working with arrestees in prison is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I did look at the image itself. I did read the article briefly, as well as caption, and I still don't think a detainee or "the arrestee" (whose face is not shown) is necessary to be illustrated. --George Ho (talk) 02:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The image isn't illustrating the arrestee, nor is it illustrating the deputy. It's illustrating the in-house, prison process of booking the arrestee. Do you understand the difference? This depiction is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 00:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- V, face it. Look at the image once more: captions helped me understand the image, while the image doesn't help me understand the (sub)topic generally (or specifically). This image fails WP:NFCC#8. No matter what you say, nothing convinces me to vote "keep"ing this image. --George Ho (talk) 01:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The image isn't illustrating the arrestee, nor is it illustrating the deputy. It's illustrating the in-house, prison process of booking the arrestee. Do you understand the difference? This depiction is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 00:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I did look at the image itself. I did read the article briefly, as well as caption, and I still don't think a detainee or "the arrestee" (whose face is not shown) is necessary to be illustrated. --George Ho (talk) 02:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, this is not an image "of" Bret King, it's an image of Bret King at work in the prison booking new arrestees. That's a completely different subject. It's possible that you didn't read the article or the caption to the image, or maybe you missed the arrestee in the left hand corner and Bret King working at the top right. The image illustrates how King got the idea for the drug prevention program at work while booking arrestees. It does not illustrate Bret King nor is it intended to illustrate Bret King, nor is that how the image is used in the article. The image illustrates the inception and founding of the concept of the "Faces of Meth" drug program, not a depiction of the person "Bret King". I am sorry if you are confused by the image name. The image of King working with arrestees in prison is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- (Weak) Delete - If this image is of Bret King, an officer, as you told, and if he is not serving his sentence, then he might be still around in Oregon. If you can take a free photo of Bret King in Oregon in a place where allowed and with King's permission, then a free photo is needed. --George Ho (talk) 00:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Sounds like you didn't read the discussion at all. It isn't a security guard and it isnt an image only of the founder and it isn't replaceable by any free image. It's an image taken by a documentary filmmaker for educational purposes inside the booking area of a prison showing how the founder got the idea for the program. You cannot replicate or replace this rare image with any free image because cameras aren't allowed in the facility unless one is a government official or a documentary filmmaker with the permission of the prison. In other words, the image is not replaceable. Viriditas (talk) 23:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: delete. Contrary to TonyTheTiger's claim that the "point is not whether the text is clear enough that the readers can understand it without pictures", that's exactly what points one and eight of WP:NFCC address. — ξxplicit 02:26, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- File:Hill Street Station hostages robbers.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by George Ho (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
I uploaded this image to help readers illustrate the main plot of an episode "Hill Street Station". However, I realize that a scene, described in the screenshot, is not critically discussed in depth. This was reviewed in WP:NFCR. Before I withdrew the review, I had this image deleted under db-g7. Nevertheless, one person opposed in WP:REFUND, and it got undeleted. To be honest, omitting this image does not hurt the quality of this article. In fact, readers may already understand the plot by reading text description of a plot. George Ho (talk) 21:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete The scene is not subject of sourced critical discussion in the article. It shows what can easily be described in text ("Two people are bound and gagged as hostages behind a store counter"). Ergo it is unnecessary to use. --MASEM (t) 21:48, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep The point is not whether the text is clear enough that the readers can understand it without pictures. The point is that this is an episode about a hostage situation and a picture of the hostages depicts the thematic element of the episode. As usual, George is applying the WP:NFCC standards at an unnecessarily high level of scrutiny. The image clarifies the type of hostage situation in a way that helps the reader.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "The point is not whether the text is clear enough that the readers can understand it without pictures." Of course it is. Have you actually read the NFCC? J Milburn (talk) 09:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Keep The hostage negotiation is a main part in the episode, and its critically discussed in the "Reception" section.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 06:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete as above. We can understand this article perfecfly well without the use of this screenshot; as such, it does not add significantly to the article, and fails NFCC#8. This is true whether or not it's the main part of the episode, or if the scene is discussed. That's not what we're addressing; instead, we must address what the image adds to the article. J Milburn (talk) 09:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- You seem to be re-writing NFCC. Since when does it say if we can understand the article without the picture include it. NFCC#8 says "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." The fact that they have an understanding of the theme without the picture does not mean the picture does not improve that understanding or that their understanding would be lower without the image. The picture shows the type of hostage situation. It clarifies that the hostages are not being held in a torture chamber and presents youthful/inexperienced perpetrators. This increases the understanding of the reader.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The following is a list of things that can be understood about the hostage situation because of the picture:
- Were the hostages each held in isolation?
- Were they blindfolded, hooded or held captive in the dark?
- Were they held in a torture chamber?
- Were they totally or partially immobilized?
- Do they seem to be held at gunpoint?
- This picture depicts a certain type of hostage situation. Many of the things clarified by the picture are not things are properly contextualized by prose. They are beyond the topical scope of the prose but not that of the hostage theme.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:12, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Tony, I think this is the time to expand/improve the plot summary, even if the article is currently Good Article. I've done that in other GAs. --George Ho (talk) 14:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Even if you change the plot synopsis, the fact remains: the victims were rescued, and the robbers were arrested. --George Ho (talk) 14:48, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The following is a list of things that can be understood about the hostage situation because of the picture:
- You seem to be re-writing NFCC. Since when does it say if we can understand the article without the picture include it. NFCC#8 says "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." The fact that they have an understanding of the theme without the picture does not mean the picture does not improve that understanding or that their understanding would be lower without the image. The picture shows the type of hostage situation. It clarifies that the hostages are not being held in a torture chamber and presents youthful/inexperienced perpetrators. This increases the understanding of the reader.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 04:02, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- File:Arima.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Karthikndr (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Fails WP:NFCC#8: image is just a random screenshot, and the article is just as understandable w/o it. Seems to be more for decorative purposes. Mbinebri talk ← 22:44, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 04:02, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- File:Jay-park-abandoned-mv.png (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Just unknown (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Fails WP:NFCC#8: images are random screenshots, and the article is just as understandable w/o them. Seems to be more for decorative purposes. Mbinebri talk ← 22:47, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The article is unfinished, therefore it would be stupid to think about putting an image up for deletion. Please think carefully. Just unknown (talk) 17:54, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I did think carefully, and my thinking carefully lead me to the conclusion that these images are decorative and that there is little reason to expect anything will be added to the music video section that will suddenly make a screenshot - let alone three of them - vital to the section's understanding. Mbinebri talk ← 16:56, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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