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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. BJTalk 21:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ThreePeace

[edit]
ThreePeace (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Non notable band autobiography. The author has made a valiant attempt at producing an article that lives up to various standards and guidelines, but notability is nowhere established.

I count only two references that are independent of the band itself, both reviews, no features or interviews.

Other references are the band's own webpage, press releases from the band, their myspace page, the band's own writeups of itself on the few webpages where their discs are available for purchase, and a link to their YouTube video embedded in the page of the guy who made the video.

The article describes a list of non-notable accomplishments in otherwise glowing terms. For example:

"Crystal Pyramid Video Productions of San Diego, California commissioned the band for the use of their song “Gone Away" [12],edited by Patty Mooney, to further promote World Peace through the creation of a YouTube music video dedicated to the cause."

(ie someone used their music in a YouTube video.)

"The band is Published by the Sheehan Sound Engineering Indie Label"

This label does not appear to have any commercially available releases (ie, not available in stores, not available on sites like Amazon). Discs are available through sites like CD Baby, that sell discs on commission. Also, Sheehan Sound Engineering has only two acts. This is either the band's own label, a name they've simply slapped on the spine, or their friend's hobby label.

their music is Administered by ASCAP

ASCAP is not an arbiter of notability, applying for membership is largely a formality. This is a royalty agency, membership does not even guarantee that you'll ever get a penny in royalties. I myself am an ASCAP member. Even mentioning ASCAP at all smacks of clutching at straws.

"ThreePeace was added to the Clear Channel Communications Family of websites at iheart.com, and listed on over 350+ radio stations websites in the United States."

www.iheartradio.com (not iheart.com), is a page that aggregates "350+"radio streams and allows you to submit your disc for "consideration". The disc was accepted (what that means isn't clear at all). Hairhorn (talk) 17:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have followed all the guidelines outlined by the editor I have been in contact with. This one editor seems to have a personal feeling that this band is not relevant. I have listed many references and accomplishments the band has made according to the terms I was asked to do and all are verifiable. I have been to other bands wikipedia articles and have found much less relevance then ThreePeace has. I wrote the ariticle to place excitement for the reader. To call these accomplishments non-notable is rediculous. I sinecerely believed a Band being featured on a Anti-War Clip is very rellevant, after all they didn't produce it themselves. They were chosen for it. A simple Bing.Com, Yahoo.Com, or Google.Com search on ThreePeace will give any editor the scope of ThreePeace. ThreePeace is very relevant considering the current music industry or lack there of. Just because the band is released on a small label of which I have yet to explore, there are other indie artist like Moe for instance that release all their own albums on their own label. Not comparing ThreePeace to Moe here, yet the size of a label seems irrelevant based on Moe releasing all their own stuff on FatBoy Records. If the article is deleted it will be a big mistake, furthermore, I am collecting more references of features of the Band on World Wide Radio Broadcasts. I have made a good effort to post all the facts the best that I have them. To call these accomplishments non-notable is certainly a matter of opinion. I am sure the thousands of ThreePeace fans world wide would not share this view! This is simply one editors view of which I certainly don't agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riddiman (talk • contribs) 19:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Hairhorn. Just for the sake of argument. ThreePeace has 11,000 fans on their myspace and I would bet that each and every one of them would find this article notable to them. I have Radio Broadcasts and Playlists I am currently assembling. I have interviews as well that I am working on from the fans. This material takes time to collect. I have been editing this on the fly and trying valiantly according to your terms to collect this data. I have had success collecting information of Broadcasts and Interviews. In efforts to be complete and concise I am collecting more data. I don't want to just push out unsubstanciated claims without being able to verify them. However, to call all of my fact not notable only relates to your opinion and not the opinion of the ThreePeace fans who's countless comments are viewable at www.myspace.com/threepeacerocks. As a ThreePeace fan I understand just how notable these things are. This conversation is simply a matter of perspective. If you were a ThreePeace fan you may see these things as more notable. I don't see how you can argue anything to the contrary.Riddiman (talk) 20:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Userfy Editor is trying to work on the article but notability isn't established yet. Substantial coverage in independent reliable sources is needed. May just need some time to pass for that coverage to happen. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - there appears to be no way this band can meet the guidelines for bands at this time. I don't see any wide-range coverage in reliable sources, which makes it hard to verify if they've toured, put out multiple albums on notable labels, etc. I'm sorry, but the number of fans on Myspace counts for nothing when it comes to determining if a band is encyclopedic. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have read the guidelines and again. I have been putting together the media play, interviews and features. However I don't want to post them without actually getting the information directly from the sources. So I will continue to do so. If the article is deleted it certainly won't be the end. I am gathering information on the fly. By the way, I wasn't using the myspace comment as a matter of wheter the band is encyclopedic or not, please note that comment was used as a reference to notability in regards to the ThreePeace fans.Riddiman (talk) 20:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am new here. What is the time frame for deletion so I can gain the facts from broadcasts, interviews and playlists. Just not familiar with all of this. This is my first article attempt. Gathering as fast as possible.Riddiman (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Editors, first of all thanks for the Music Notability page, I wasn't aware of these things. ThreePeace has been featured on a national satellite radio program of which I have a recording. I am gathering other features and airplay information. If the article is deleted I will just resubmit it when the remaining information comes in. I have nothing but respect for this process. I believe ThreePeace will be eventually accepted and this is a learning process which can only be achieved by doing it.Riddiman (talk) 21:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fans of Indie Bands here on Wikipedia. I believe you should stand up for ThreePeace. I ask any of you to search ThreePeace (1 Word) on Bing.Com, Yahoo.Com or Google and you will find countless listings of the band World Wide for various songs and categories....even chinese I can decifer. On Bing.Com I am getting returns from Many Radio Station in the Us that list their songs, with different numbers of plays on each station. I believe these are all Clear Channel Communications Stations. It is not logical to have this degree of exposure simply by themselves. The search results speak for themselves in regard to broadcast. I found that on Bing.com and also the countless search returns which I can only estimate in the thousands. If this article is deleted, I will certainly save my work as I accumulate the subsequent references. This is my first submission and I have learned alot so far. If one of the details of inclusion is details of broadcast nationally which qualify a Music Group, then ThreePeace is qualified. I know ThreePeace has satisfied that. I don't have playlists as generally these are not published. However, it seems they are being played by clear channel or my search isn't working correctly. Likewise, I have recordings of the band featured on KUAC Alaska as a tribute to the Prince William Sound Oil Spill, Likewise, this show was broadcast into Russia as is stated on the program by Alaska Jahn of KUAC. There is actually a clip of this on the website. I also have a recording of the band from a show on the Jammin Reggae Achieves. Another recording of a 40 minute interview of the band, featuring all their songs on Progressive Soundscapes Radio from 2006. I know the band has alot of play I can't verify. That is just the nature of the beast. Not all play is internet noted. There is no doubt there is all kinds of air play I simply won't be able to track down. In any event, I will continue to collect the material and resubmit it at a later time if it is deleted. I wasn't aware of this process and just decided to give it a go one night as a fan of the band. If they are accepted or not won't change my mind, and I will continue to collect data for their inclusion when the band is deemed notable by the editors on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.4.151 (talk) 23:58, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


One Last Post because I am becoming exhausted in this work anyway. I just searched rock music on here and found articles like this one......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utris. They are not up for deletion and none of this makes any sense at all. So many other bands with fewer credentials not up for deletion, so what is one to believe?68.41.4.151 (talk) 00:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to login.....I submitted the last two posts.Riddiman (talk) 00:22, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found a bit of data that the editor above said didn't exist for ThreePeace in commercial stores like amazon,target and itunes. Here are some links to those which will be helpful. Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=threepeace. Target - http://www.target.com/gp/search/181-7067944-9267339?field-keywords=ThreePeace&url=index%3Dtarget%26search-alias%3Dtgt-index&ref=sr_bx_1_1&x=15&y=9. and Itunes - http://www.apple.com/search/ipoditunes/?q=threepeace+rastaman. I find 29 tracks for sale on itunes.Riddiman (talk) 00:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to nominate other bands that don't seem notable for deletion. But the existence of other articles that don't meet the inclusion guidelines isn't going to help your case for this article I'm afraid. Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of these things you all are saying. I just looked up ThreePeace on Itunes and it shows a bunch of the songs on their albums as full bars as far as popularity. I have given you referneces which can be followed. Just check the links I have supplied and the rest becomes clear. They are selling lots of songs on Itunes and other outlets. It can be verified and it is indisputable. They are available from almost all media outlets I am checking. I simply am pointing out the facts a reasonable editor will see these facts. As a person new to the Wikipedia community and giving the best of efforts, I am just trying to make sense of how these decisions are made. I have sent a bunch of links tonight which can be verified. I feel I have stated my case for the band the best I can for now. We will just have to see the final decision. In any event the information is here for the deciding editor. The defense rests!LOL!Riddiman (talk) 00:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The key is substantial coverage in reliable independent sources like newspapers, magazines and books. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just found an independant interview with ThreePeace. It appears to be done by an interviewer and is published on line at the following url. http://www.hussieskunk.com/reviews/intervs/threepeace-march2007.shtml. I must point out it seems like the more of these things I point out. Like above where it says there are no independant reviews, which I have just pointed out here. Likewise, I have the Radio Show interview from Progressive Soundscapes radio with host Kenny Solomon, I have linked to many reviews which are independant. To the final decision maker by reading these responses it should be clear that alot of the claims made by the editors have been proven wrong. Likewise, there is more references I am finding all the time. I have a full time job and can't put all my resources to this. I know this article will grow with more resources added along the way. I urge you to re-read this article for deletion completely before making your decision.68.41.4.151 (talk) 13:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep I have provided linkes to interviews online, verification of play on radio, independant interviews, as well as proof that the music is available on all of these major distribution sources

Apple iTunes iMusica LastFM Amazon Pocketgroup Rhapsody Napster Amie Street Lala Spotify Shockhound MP3tunes USEN AudioLunchbox Interia MusicIsHere Puretracks Tradebit Bitmunk Daiki Inprodicon NTT Mouzika PlayIndies PayPlay ZuKool Starzik rVibe MOL GreatIndieMusic Liquid Digital Media Spotify Shockhound

I also have found numerous features like this one on MichiganBands.Com http://www.michiganbands.com/article1548.html, this one on collegemusicradio.com - http://www.collegemusicradio.com/index.cfm?method=musicdetail&id=2073. There are so many results in fact I could never list them all. Likewise, these distribution sources and articles are only a partial list of the returns I have found. Likewise, Keep in mind, I stongly feel that posting all of this information on Wikipedia just becomes a bit redundant and actually takes away from the aritcle and starts to approach redundancy. I have offered evidence here which very much disputes some of the claims made by the editors. I am still gathering sources from interviews, radio airplay. I have provided sources for the article support, however, I certainly don't think all of these things need to be in the article. However, here is the proof that they do exist.

Thanks for the opportunity to defend my article.Riddiman (talk) 12:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way in closing as this will be my last post before a decision is made. I just read the entire article for deletion and the comment by hairhorn which states "Even mentioning ASCAP at all smacks of clutching at straws". Claiming that I was using that fact to gain notability, is more a personal dig at me the editor. I find that comment offensive. I included all the information in this article simply as information of fact. That information is provided on on the back of each of the ThreePeace albums, and it was stated as facts about the band for those who were interested. I personally was never writing this from the perspective of if the band was notable. To me they are, and that is the end of the story. I find that comment a personal dig directed at myself and nothing to do with the notability of ThreePeace. I have shown where Hairhorn was wrong about a number of his comments above. The rest will be up to the final administrator. If I felt I was cluthing at straws, I would never have spent these countless hours writing and editing this article. I did it because I sincerely believe it is worthwhile and notable regardless of the label they are on or if they are on ASCAP. Those are simply facts about the band.Riddiman (talk) 21:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unfortunately, editors sometimes take deletion nominations personally. But only in rare instances are they meant that way. I don't see any personal attacks in my nomination; it even uses the word "valiant" to describe the effort put into the article. Which copyright organization a band uses is irrelevant to notability, there are only 2 or 3 them in the USA anyhow, and membership is easy to get. Also, you've given a lot of information, but I don't see a mention of what your relationship to the band is. DId I miss it somewhere? It may be relevant in this case. Cheers. Hairhorn (talk) 16:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My relationship to the band is fan of the band........One who thinks they are notable. I admit freely that once the notability issue came into this article. It just became a litany of links and blurbs to verify notabiltiy to all of you. That is the point at which this article lost its appeal and became fluff or window dressing. I should have just left it alone and let it be deleted if that was what was going to happen. I have saved all this work and will grab the nuggets that are useful, once I have the rest of the information to verify notability I will post it again. In any event a bunch of Wikipedia Editors and countless others have read about ThreePeace through this baptism of fire on Wikipedia. So with all things considered it did serve a very useful purpose. Educating Internet Users with undeniable and unnotable facts about ThreePeace! LOL! It could be worse!Riddiman (talk) 23:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Thanks for your good efforts. I look forward to there being some news coverage of the band and their related activities so we can get an article up about them. Peace. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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