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Cliff Divine

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Cliff Divine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:BIO. Almost all of the sources serve just to document specific pieces of information and don't mention Mr. Divine at all or only briefly. Most of the personal information about him is not sourced at all, or only a source that is associated with him(like his company website). The information about his language skills is sourced to the people who educated him- just documentation that provides no information(as one example)

It is entirely possible that the Reconnect organization/movement he founded is notable, or even his films(like the one selected by film festivals that merit articles). But when the unsourced information and information about his movement is stripped out, not much is left other than the fact he hangs out with celebrities who support his movement, but notability is not inherited by association(and, again, would be more relevant to his movement than him personally). Some sources are interviews and thus not independent.

This draft was created by an account by the name Cdlosangeles; the Cd strongly implies they are Mr. Divine themselves. They have denied this, but given what they wrote and their comments(most of which are AI written), I still believe it may be. 331dot (talk) 19:15, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Businesspeople, Film, Entertainment, and United States of America. 331dot (talk) 19:15, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Evidence of Reliable Independent Coverage
    Below is a selection of independent secondary sources with significant coverage of Cliff Divine or his work. This list includes more than thirty television news segments across major US networks where he is clearly identified on air.
    Television Coverage (Independent Broadcast Sources)
    ABC7 News San Francisco
    ABC Action News Florida
    ABC News Orlando
    CBS Orlando
    CBS Pittsburgh
    NBC Sioux Falls
    NBC Orlando
    KUTV 2 Utah
    KHON2 Hawaii
    KTVB 7 Boise
    Q2 News Montana
    WKMG News 6 Orlando
    KTVA Alaska
    WESH 2 Orlando
    And many others
    These are full broadcast news reports featuring him as the central on-screen subject.
    Print and Online Coverage (Independent Secondary Sources)
    Orlando Sentinel
    Local and regional US newspapers
    International press outlets
    Film festival programs and award announcements
    These collectively satisfy WP:BIO and WP:GNG.
    A complete link to the full collection of thirty plus news segments was provided above and shows verified, on-air identification of the subject by major network journalists. Cdlosangeles (talk) 20:20, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    His name being mentioned on air doesn't make him notable. I reiterate- his movement/organization may be notable, but not him personally. I suggest that you write about his organization instead. 331dot (talk) 20:48, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: France and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 20:04, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for reviewing the article. I would like to clarify several points, because some of the comments above include assumptions that do not match the facts.
1. Cliff Divine and Andrew Cliff Tisba are the same person.
This can be verified through interviews, festival materials, and nonprofit records. Since both names refer to the same individual, all references to him under either name are valid for establishing notability. Several news pieces refer to him as Cliff Divine while others refer to him by his birth name, and they all point to the same person.
2. The article includes many independent reliable secondary sources that focus directly on Mr. Divine.
There is coverage from ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, Orlando Sentinel, KHON2, KTVB, KUTV, Q2 Billings, and international outlets. These are not small mentions. They are full news stories where he appears as the central subject. Film festivals and award committees have also published coverage that includes him in a principal role.
3. A link has been provided that contains more than thirty television news segments from major networks where Cliff Divine is clearly identified by name on air.
These are verified broadcasts, publicly aired, and independent of him. This constitutes significant coverage by reliable independent sources under WP:BIO.
4. The majority of the sources are fully independent journalism.
These materials come from established newsrooms that operate with editorial oversight. They are not self published and not produced or controlled by the subject. They satisfy the independence and reliability standards required for a biographical article.
5. Notability is supported by coverage of his acting awards and his public work.
He has been recognized at film festivals, appears in national and international news stories, and is repeatedly covered for his multistate public initiative. This meets the definition of significant coverage from multiple independent secondary sources.
6. For clarity, I am not Cliff Divine, the subject of the article.
I am commenting here solely to correct factual inaccuracies. Wikipedia asks participants to avoid personal speculation about editors. The discussion should remain focused on the article content and the sources, not on assumptions about who may be editing.
7. Regarding @331dot
I want to acknowledge that @331dot has been helpful in pointing out technical copyright issues related to images. I am working on those with Commons. However, it feels disproportionate that after helping remove all images I spent hours organizing, there is now also a push from him/her to delete the entire article I spent months building with independent sources. I am raising this only to highlight how important it is to keep the focus on policy and content rather than escalating toward removing the whole subject. The notability question should be evaluated strictly based on the independent sources presented.
In summary, the subject is covered in a large number of independent reliable secondary sources, including more than thirty television news segments and multiple print and online publications. These meet the requirements of WP:BIO and support keeping the article. Cdlosangeles (talk) 20:10, 15 November 2025 (UTC)— Cdlosangeles (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Copyright violations are not a "technical issue", but a serious matter that puts Wikipedia in legal jeopardy if allowed to persist. Most images found on the internet-including stills from TV broadcasts- are not suitable for use on Wikipedia.
Quite frankly, this article is so glowing in its praise of Mr. Devine that if you aren't him or don't work for him, he should hire you. Most of his personal information is unsourced- where did you get this information? The citations in the Artistry section are largely to the website of people who worked with him- they don't provide significant coverage of him or even say what is claimed- such as "Cliff Divine studied for three months at Identity School of Acting in Los Angeles, founded by Femi Oguns, whose alumni include John Boyega and Letitia Wright." The two sources don't even mention Mr. Devine.
As I said, his organization may very well be notable. 331dot (talk) 20:27, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The section about Memory Studios is only sourced to the Memory Studios website and his IMDB entry on Amazon(IMDB is user-generated and not considered a reliable source) and should just be removed. The other citations in that section just document the existence of his work. 331dot (talk) 20:32, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you @331dot for raising the copyright concerns. I want to clarify that I have already started working on the image and licensing issues. The process is ongoing, and I would have appreciated the opportunity to address these concerns before every file was removed. I understand the importance of copyright compliance, and I intend to fully resolve that part of the article.
Regarding the content itself, the focus of the AfD should be the independent secondary sources, many of which come from established broadcasters with full editorial oversight. These sources provide significant and repeated coverage over several years. The issues you pointed out about certain biographical details or non-independent references are already being reviewed and can be adjusted. These are normal improvements, not reasons to remove the entire subject.
I would genuinely appreciate support in improving what has taken months to assemble, rather than seeing everything removed in a matter of days. Collaboration is what strengthens articles, and many of the concerns you mentioned can be fixed through normal editing. I am committed to addressing them.
I hope we can focus on constructive improvement instead of rapid removal. If there are specific areas where you believe revisions would be beneficial, I am open to working on them. My intention is to follow policy and build a solid, well-sourced article, and your help in that process would be welcome. Cdlosangeles (talk) 20:48, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Copyright violations cannot be allowed to stand for even one second. Wikipedia must make every effort to remove them or it is at risk of legal action, if not in this specific case, in other cases. If you have copyright-compliant images, you are free to upload those. 331dot (talk) 20:56, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Entirety of "Personal life and philosophy" section has no sourcing or no relevant sourcing; entirety of "Immigration struggles and the American dream" is unsourced and the sources there aren't about subject. Same with "Recognition and honors" section and those are only the three I looked at closely. Doesn't seem to meet WP:BIO or WP:GNG at all. The whole article reads like an AI bot wrote it, which I know the nom brought up concerns about the user Cdlosangeles being AI - I feel the same looking at this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:29, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Fails WP:BIO for the subject. Also, this is an autobiography. 🦆 Mike Allen 21:35, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – while there are a ton of sources here, many of them are either primary sources or do not prove anything about the article's subject (for instance, it may look like this source is being used to prove Divine studied under Jack Garfein, but there is zero mention of Divine there). It is possible that Divine is notable, but unfortunately, the flood of irrelevant sources makes it impossible to tell – if that is the case, WP:TNT applies. RunningTiger123 (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Promotional autobiography authored by the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barry Wom (talk • contribs)
Delete.. Everyone else is saying that NewestPiano (talk) 20:46, 21 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Clearly created by someone who should have at least taken it through AfC, but also should have read some of the policy pages. Most is sourced to his own work, and often on Youtube or his own site "reconnect." They also make the beginner mistakes of saying "he did Y" and then linking to "Y" not to a source that backs the assertion. I removed the Youtube and some other unusable sources. It may be easier to see what reliable sourcing is there, if any. There is discussion at User_talk:Cdlosangeles, the SPA who created this, that makes it pretty clear that there is COI. I'll try to go through some sources to see if GNG can be supported. Lamona (talk) 22:11, 22 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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