Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/NeilN
User:NeilN's edit stats using X!'s edit counter as of 20:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
User ID: 409043 User groups: autoreviewer, ipblock-exempt, reviewer, rollbacker, user, autoconfirmed First edit: Aug 30, 2005, 4:11 AM Latest edit: May 31, 2015, 8:48 PM Live edits: 76,287 Deleted edits: 4,370 Total edits: 80,657 Edits in the past 24 hours: 43 Edits in the past 7 days: 537 Edits in the past 30 days: 2,100 Edits in the past 365 days: 21,706 Ø number of edits per day: 22.7 Live edits: Unique pages edited: 30,046 Pages created: 10,417 Pages moved: 92 Ø edits per page: 2.5 Ø change per page (bytes): extended Files uploaded: 4 Files uploaded (Commons): 10 (Semi-)automated edits: 46,892 Reverted edits: 443 Edits with summary: 75,645 Number of minor edits (tagged): 26,855 Number of edits (<20 bytes): extended Number of edits (>1000 bytes): extended Actions: Thank: 245 x Approve: 742 x Patrol: 1,585 x Admin actions Block: 0 x Protect: 1 x Delete: 0 x Import: 0 x Errors: (Re)blocked: 2 x Longest block: 1 weeks Current block: – SUL editcounter (approximate): latest ► enwiki 80,208 +5 minutes commonswiki 202 +10 days wikidatawiki 18 > 30 days metawiki 12 > 30 days dewiki 3 > 30 days mediawikiwiki 1 > 30 days eswiki 1 > 30 days 38 others 0 > 30 days Total edits 80,445 bla bla Namespace Totals [hide] Article 36,834 48.3% Talk 6,796 8.9% User 547 0.7% User talk 27,359 35.9% Wikipedia 3,973 5.2% Wikipedia talk 534 0.7% File 21 0% File talk 7 0% Template 69 0.1% Template talk 42 0.1% Help 22 0% Help talk 7 0% Category 21 0% Category talk 9 0% Portal 28 0% Portal talk 2 0% Book 1 0% Book talk 1 0% Draft 9 0% Draft talk 5 0% Year counts [hide] 2005 193 2007 7,052 2008 10,381 2009 7,815 2010 6,990 2011 3,029 2012 4,107 2013 8,642 2014 17,665 2015 10,413 Time card [hide] Timecard Latest edit (global) - Edits in the past 30 days, max. 10 / Wiki [hide] Date ↓ Wiki ↓ Links ↓ Page title ↓ Comment ↓ 2015-05-31, 20:48 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/NeilN /* Questions for the candidate */ 2015-05-31, 20:31 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) User talk:NeilN /* Adminship? */ done 2015-05-31, 20:27 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/NeilN last step 2015-05-31, 20:22 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship transclude and comment out "no current noms" 2015-05-31, 20:07 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/NeilN accept 2015-05-31, 20:04 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/NeilN /* Questions for the candidate */ 2015-05-31, 18:42 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) User talk:174.225.242.142 General note: Editing tests on [[Psychopathy]]. ([[WP:TW|... 2015-05-31, 18:42 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) Psychopathy Reverted 1 edit by [[Special:Contributions/174.225.242.14... 2015-05-31, 18:38 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) J. P. Cormier /* top */ add refs 2015-05-31, 18:28 enwiki ( diff · log · top ) J. P. Cormier /* top */ expand 2015-05-21, 16:42 commonswiki ( diff · log · top ) User talk:Saudiexp note Month counts [hide] 2005-08 15 2005-09 154 2005-10 23 2005-12 1 2007-07 605 2007-08 678 2007-09 670 2007-10 1,586 2007-11 2,021 2007-12 1,492 2008-01 1,253 2008-02 1,864 2008-03 2,583 2008-04 1,870 2008-05 1,470 2008-06 1,228 2008-07 113 2009-01 235 2009-02 3 2009-03 2 2009-04 6 2009-08 655 2009-09 1,972 2009-10 705 2009-11 1,971 2009-12 2,266 2010-01 1,929 2010-02 1,673 2010-03 1,177 2010-04 1,486 2010-05 602 2010-06 15 2010-09 2 2010-12 106 2011-02 1 2011-03 73 2011-04 1,088 2011-05 1,654 2011-06 212 2011-08 1 2012-04 12 2012-05 1,961 2012-06 1,244 2012-07 883 2012-08 5 2012-11 2 2013-01 2 2013-02 1 2013-03 2 2013-04 2 2013-05 69 2013-06 946 2013-07 1,259 2013-08 1,881 2013-09 1,328 2013-10 996 2013-11 1,037 2013-12 1,119 2014-01 1,210 2014-02 1,657 2014-03 1,058 2014-04 880 2014-05 1,567 2014-06 1,561 2014-07 1,584 2014-08 1,687 2014-09 1,719 2014-10 1,998 2014-11 1,730 2014-12 1,014 2015-01 2,264 2015-02 2,400 2015-03 1,226 2015-04 2,344 2015-05 2,179 Top edited pages [hide] Articles 160 Telangana log · page history · topedits 115 Kalvakuntla Chandrashekar Rao log · page history · topedits 82 Wendy Davis (politician) log · page history · topedits 79 Van Morrison log · page history · topedits 78 Kent Hovind log · page history · topedits 67 Cerebral palsy log · page history · topedits 66 Steven Seagal log · page history · topedits 66 Rahul Gandhi log · page history · topedits 65 Dude log · page history · topedits 64 Akinwale Arobieke log · page history · topedits 63 National Basketball Association log · page history · topedits 61 Dian Fossey log · page history · topedits 59 Valentine's Day log · page history · topedits 59 Nandamuri Balakrishna log · page history · topedits 59 New Deal log · page history · topedits -More- Talk 112 Talk:Ejaculation log · page history · topedits 94 Talk:Muhammad log · page history · topedits 85 Talk:Barack Obama log · page history · 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Live?
[edit]I don't see this transcluded on the main WP:RFA page... Is this nomination official already? - Cwobeel (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Cwobeel: Yes. Epic Genius (talk) 20:42, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Extended discussion moved here so that it can be discussed at length w/o dominating the Oppose section
- I've never really understood why we'd want prolific content creators to morph into janitors. On average, administrators need to be level-headed, have a good understanding of policy and guidelines and a fair technical understanding, and be able to assess consensus. They don't need to have contributed swathes of content. Then again, this might not be the most appropriate place to argue about this. Alakzi (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) How would NeilN becoming an admin negatively impact Wikipedia? Certainly keeping articles that could become quality articles would benefit Wikipedia but adminship is not something that affects how someone !votes or the weight of any of those !votes. PHANTOMTECH (talk) 00:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- It is his AfD work which pushes me from being neutral here. The tools confusingly show the area he edited in as "일반 문서" which I specifically found confusing. Trying to "debate" reasons here is not productive. NeilN did not actually start SRT, and I do not find NetMarket to be an explicitly notable company - it likely belongs in the CUC article as its independent existence was very short indeed (apparently about three months from the "first purchase" to November 1994 when CUC acquired it). We do not require that a person be found to "negatively affect Wikipedia." I find his AfD positions to not a criterion I have used a few times now. Collect (talk) 00:41, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- "일반 문서"
is a bug in the edit count toolis a Korean word for "Articles" (don't ask me why) Check yours... - Cwobeel (talk) 01:07, 1 June 2015 (UTC)- Except for one spot, my own result has no Korean in it. Again - this is a very side issue - the AfD issue is the one which I find concerning. Sure sounds like a bug though. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:18, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- For some reason, in the Edit Count breakdown, "Articles" is appearing in Korean. It's a known bug but I'm not sure how soon it will be fixed. Liz Read! Talk! 01:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, Korean is not really an improvement over German, which it used to be. ;-) Softlavender (talk) 02:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- For some reason, in the Edit Count breakdown, "Articles" is appearing in Korean. It's a known bug but I'm not sure how soon it will be fixed. Liz Read! Talk! 01:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Except for one spot, my own result has no Korean in it. Again - this is a very side issue - the AfD issue is the one which I find concerning. Sure sounds like a bug though. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:18, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- There are no requirements for !votes, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't reply to them. Without the possibility of discussion, !votes start to become votes. If someone becoming an admin would not negatively affect Wikipedia, I don't see the point of opposing their adminship. PHANTOMTECH (talk) 01:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- I guess, while content creation would be an asset, it is not required; previous adminships have passed without the candidate having made more than a few major article creation edits. Epic Genius (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- I don't want to stir the pot and name names, but admins without content experience sometimes block editors that are GA / FA stalwarts, seemingly without realising the damage it causes to the encyclopedia and the drama that erupts. Hang around certain talk pages long enough and you'll see it. I don't think Neil is one of these and I seriously hope I'm right. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- If you hang around the India pages and see NeilN's contributions to the discussions, you'll see that NeilN is actually a content focused editor. Not in the sense of one who adds content directly but rather one who helps other editors add content. While that may not lead to FAs and GAs it is a content skill and I don't agree with the opposers that say "NeilN has done very little content work". I agree that we have block happy admins with limited experience of the often contentious give and take that goes into building what is often our best content, Unfortunately, we've also had a few arbs with similar issues. However, that's another entire discussion! --regentspark (comment) 13:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- I just would like to remind everybody that the perceived minimal content work was only a side issue in Collect's vote. Hi smain objection was his interpretation of the candidate's AfD work, and his fears what the candidate would, or would not, do with the deletion button. That's actually a long-standing and well-accepted oppose rationale, albeit based on the subjective view of the !voter. Kraxler (talk) 13:35, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- If you hang around the India pages and see NeilN's contributions to the discussions, you'll see that NeilN is actually a content focused editor. Not in the sense of one who adds content directly but rather one who helps other editors add content. While that may not lead to FAs and GAs it is a content skill and I don't agree with the opposers that say "NeilN has done very little content work". I agree that we have block happy admins with limited experience of the often contentious give and take that goes into building what is often our best content, Unfortunately, we've also had a few arbs with similar issues. However, that's another entire discussion! --regentspark (comment) 13:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- I don't want to stir the pot and name names, but admins without content experience sometimes block editors that are GA / FA stalwarts, seemingly without realising the damage it causes to the encyclopedia and the drama that erupts. Hang around certain talk pages long enough and you'll see it. I don't think Neil is one of these and I seriously hope I'm right. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- I guess, while content creation would be an asset, it is not required; previous adminships have passed without the candidate having made more than a few major article creation edits. Epic Genius (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- "일반 문서"
- It is his AfD work which pushes me from being neutral here. The tools confusingly show the area he edited in as "일반 문서" which I specifically found confusing. Trying to "debate" reasons here is not productive. NeilN did not actually start SRT, and I do not find NetMarket to be an explicitly notable company - it likely belongs in the CUC article as its independent existence was very short indeed (apparently about three months from the "first purchase" to November 1994 when CUC acquired it). We do not require that a person be found to "negatively affect Wikipedia." I find his AfD positions to not a criterion I have used a few times now. Collect (talk) 00:41, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I find a lot of this hand-wringing over Collect's "oppose" vote and rationale to be a little silly. Content creation is a long-cited reason for supporting or opposing an RfA candidate, and there are various perfectly valid reasons that it can be described as one basis among several for judging a candidate's admin qualifications. In this case, however, I happen to disagree with Collect's conclusion, and accept that the candidate's many other strong qualities more than compensate for any downside associated with a lack of new content creation. That said, I think it's time to let this go -- NeilN is clearly going to be an admin in five days' time, and getting worked up over one "oppose" vote is both pointy and pointless. Collect is entitled to his opinion. That's all. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:42, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- Well said. Thanks, Dirtlawyer1. —DoRD (talk) 18:03, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Response to Zad68
[edit]I note that NeilN curates your talk page. It would be better if this matter was handled by someone completely independent. If you are not prepared to explain which of my comments you find fault with editors may infer that fair and open discussion is being impeded. 87.81.147.76 (talk) 14:48, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- I'm completely independent, besides evaluating NeilN and casting a vote, I've not interacted with him (to the best of my knowledge). I've semi protected the page. If you have comments then feel free to share them here. That said, if you are making false accusations, I will be removing them. If you are commenting on the contributor, but not the content, I will be removing them. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. WormTT(talk) 14:53, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- Since the beginning of time, Neil has made exactly one edit to my User Talk page, where he removed a disruptive edit from an IP spammer. In no way can that be reasonably interpreted as that he "curates" my User Talk.
Zad6815:02, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: @Zad68: Can you clarify what you mean by "commenting on the contributor, but not the content"? When people put themselves up for RfA they expect people to delve into their past and make judgment calls depending on what they come up with. I don't see what is wrong with linking to this history. My comments are now in history. If you feel I have abused this process in any way please point to the links you find objectionable and I will review my comments. 87.81.147.76 (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: @Zad68:Having printed out and studied the post to the nomination page I can see that something was pasted from Neil's talk which should not have been - the part which begins "You enjoy the company" and ends "should be NailN." The rest appears to be good faith comment. If you think I am mistaken in that view please start a discussion here. 87.81.147.76 (talk) 16:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: @Zad68: If you're checking the diffs on the 14:33, 3 June version of the nomination page, link 31 should be [1]. 87.81.147.76 (talk) 18:56, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Comment
[edit]- I would point out that although Collect's oppose discussion was moved to the discussion page "so that it can be discussed at length without dominating the oppose section" Andrew D.'s oppose discussion was not, although it is twice as long. The reason is that in the interim another oppose discussion started on the discussion page which Neil's supporters don't want !voters to know about. 87.81.147.76 (talk) 12:54 pm, Today (UTC−4)
- We're done with folks that disrupt RfA and are too cowardly to get an account or are avoiding scrutiny.
— Berean Hunter (talk) 11:50, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Cassianto's position
[edit]- Oppose -- running before he can walk. This editor has as much to do with article content creation as I do with open heart surgery on the Preying Mantis . Still, we seem to hand admin tools to just about anybody now so what would adding one more matter. WP:ADMIN is 70% full of bad-eggs. I just hope this user doesn't join their ranks. CassiantoTalk 17:52, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- I don't usually challenge those who oppose a candidate, but bad egg? Do you really have that little faith in this candidate? —DoRD (talk) 18:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- I saw how that read and I apologise, I didn't mean for it to come out like that. What I meant was that he will be joining a load of bad-eggs already there. CassiantoTalk 18:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- So you oppose a good egg joining the admin corps because only 30% of the current lot are good eggs? Funny reasoning. --Stfg (talk) 19:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- In your opinion he may be a good egg. CassiantoTalk 20:07, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- This is your !vote, so perhaps you should state clearly what is your opinion, instead of this ambiguity. --Stfg (talk) 20:27, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- My !vote is not up for discussion and I would request that you mind your own business. CassiantoTalk 20:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikipedia where when you post something people will discuss it. RfA is no different. Chillum 20:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- You can discuss things in your flippant tone until the cows come home Chillum, but I shall be taking no further part in it. My views have been made so you can draw your own conclusions. CassiantoTalk 20:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- A wise move. It's always a good idea to stop digging when you're in a hole. Nick (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- Whose digging? I'm simply not being baited into a block by commenting on another editor. Not everybody falls under the blanket of sycophancy you know. CassiantoTalk 08:25, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
- User:Cassianto I see you said that "we seem to hand admin tools to just about anybody now". If you truly believe that then you should go back and look at a time when any Tom, Dick or CambridgeBayWeather could become an admin. Four months and 4,000 edits were all it took. Things were so bad then that nobody knew how to count correctly. Even if all the supports and opposes were numbered. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:58, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
- Is you linking to your name supposed to make me want to retract my statement? It doesn't. CassiantoTalk 13:11, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
- User:Cassianto I was not asking you to change anything. The link was to Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/CambridgeBayWeather. I was just pointing out that it is far more difficult to become an admin today than in the past. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 23:02, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
- Is you linking to your name supposed to make me want to retract my statement? It doesn't. CassiantoTalk 13:11, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
- User:Cassianto I see you said that "we seem to hand admin tools to just about anybody now". If you truly believe that then you should go back and look at a time when any Tom, Dick or CambridgeBayWeather could become an admin. Four months and 4,000 edits were all it took. Things were so bad then that nobody knew how to count correctly. Even if all the supports and opposes were numbered. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:58, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
- Whose digging? I'm simply not being baited into a block by commenting on another editor. Not everybody falls under the blanket of sycophancy you know. CassiantoTalk 08:25, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
- A wise move. It's always a good idea to stop digging when you're in a hole. Nick (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- You can discuss things in your flippant tone until the cows come home Chillum, but I shall be taking no further part in it. My views have been made so you can draw your own conclusions. CassiantoTalk 20:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikipedia where when you post something people will discuss it. RfA is no different. Chillum 20:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- My !vote is not up for discussion and I would request that you mind your own business. CassiantoTalk 20:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- This is your !vote, so perhaps you should state clearly what is your opinion, instead of this ambiguity. --Stfg (talk) 20:27, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- In your opinion he may be a good egg. CassiantoTalk 20:07, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- So you oppose a good egg joining the admin corps because only 30% of the current lot are good eggs? Funny reasoning. --Stfg (talk) 19:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- I saw how that read and I apologise, I didn't mean for it to come out like that. What I meant was that he will be joining a load of bad-eggs already there. CassiantoTalk 18:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- Moved to talk page
- I don't usually challenge those who oppose a candidate, but bad egg? Do you really have that little faith in this candidate? —DoRD (talk) 18:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks everyone
[edit]Thanks to everyone who nudged me to run and thanks to everyone who participated in my RFA. I honestly wasn't expecting that level of support, given that I usually just keep my head down and try to fix what needs fixing or help where needed. I'll be starting off slowly and carefully with the admin tools so please don't expect any magical declines in the backlogs :-) Any advice from admins regarding their particular best practices or scripts/tools they use will be gratefully received. --NeilN talk to me 20:55, 7 June 2015 (UTC)