Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rocker jacket

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete, consensus has been sufficiently established. GlassCobra 22:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rocker jacket

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There is some uncertainty as to whether or not this article is a hoax (this article has been tagged as a hoax since August 25, 2009). There are some passing mentions on Google Books, but I'm not sure if this is the "rocket jacket" those books are referring to. Cunard (talk) 07:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the discussion on the talk page:

Discussion

Is the term "rocker jacket" a complete hoax?

This article only has two references, and neither of them uses the words "rocker jacket." For a couple months now, I've made a point of searching various dictionaries of slang and modern usage for the term "rocker jacket". I have found nothing. And as you can see in two seconds, the only time the term shows up on the web is either a) parroting this WP article or b) new fashion jackets that look nothing like the classic motorcycle jacket, black leather jacket or the Perfecto motorcycle jacket worn by Marlon Brando in The Wild One and most closely associated with the cultural claims being made in this article.

I would just want to merge this article with Perfecto motorcycle jacket or move all the content to the more common term Motorcycle jacket, but in addition, I think Rocker jacket should be deleted as a complete hoax.

I'm just throwing this out there in the hopes that somebody can show any evidence the term is in use anywhere. Maybe it isn't an English term; is it from Germany or Russia? Anyone? Bueller? --Dbratland (talk) 04:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hoax tag added

I have found some German sources that use the term "rocker gang" for outlaw motorcycle clubs, but I think this could just as easily be a reference to the shape of the 3-piece patch, not rock & roll, or the rockers of the UK. I'm still hoping there is an expert out there who can cite a source for this terminology before I nominate for deletion.--Dbratland (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably this article's title is in reference to the Mods and Rockers British youth subcultures of the 1960s, but there seems little justification in calling this style of jacket a "Rocker Jacket" because of incidents almost 50 years ago, unless there is indeed evidence of recent usage. Wlindley (talk) 14:42, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone 50 years ago, or 1000 years ago, ever used the terminology "rocker jacket", that would be great. We could cite it. But nobody ever says, or did say 50 years ago, "rocker jacket." That is the hoax here. Yes, the rockers existed, and they still exist. Yes, sometimes some of them wear jackets, often motorcycle jackets, or leather jackets. The problem is that there is no particular type of jacket connected with rockers and called a "rocker jacket." It was invented by a Wiki editor.--Dbratland (talk) 16:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course there is a "Rocker Jacket". I was a Rocker in the 60s and I am still a rocker/greaser/biker wearing a rocker jacket (Schott (Brando) jacket) today. And yes I still ride as well! IBULLIONS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.205.66 (talk) 09:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any evidence of anyone actually using the phrase "rocker jacket"? Books? Movies? Magazines? Anything? You just pointed out that Schott doesn't call it that.--Dbratland (talk) 16:15, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cunard (talk) 07:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Unsourced original research and woolly speculation. A couple people swear to me they did hear this term used back in the 80s, but not for very long, and none of them ever saw it in print. I've checked a half dozen dictionaries of slang, and every resource they have at the Seattle and King County libraries. Rocker jacket is a slang term that tried, but failed, to catch on, partially because the Rocker (subculture) never settled on any one style; they wore several different kinds of jackets. The redirect page Motorcycle jacket needs to be expanded into an overview of this topic, covering the Langlitz Columbia jacket [1][2], the Perfecto motorcycle jacket, The Wild One and so on. You could argue for saving Rocker jacket because something is better than nothing, but it has been waiting for sources to come along for 6 years. It's all unsourced original research. --Dbratland (talk) 16:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Most of the text comes from Leather jacket, just tweaked to use this term. Even the Perfecto motorcycle jacket article, which this article claims is the "original rocker jacket" doesn't use that term. The only question in my mind is whether to redirect or outright delete. If there's any reliable source to support Rocker Jacket as a term, then a redirect is in order... I can't find any though, in-line with Dbratland's comments, so I say Delete at this point. Arakunem^Talk 16:58, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Regardless of the outcome of this, I am redirecting Motorcycle jacket to Motorcycle safety clothing. A motorcycle jacket is, first and foremost, protective gear for riders. Its use as a fashion article is secondary, so Motorcycle jacket should not be a redir to this article. Arakunem^Talk 17:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. B.Rossow ^talk_contr 18:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep To answer Dbratland's statement, I have heard the term as well, being a child of the 80's. Rocker jackets were a type/style of leather jacket that were a fad of the 80's, and as such, a simple merge or redirect to leather jacket or motorcycle jacket does not do it any justice. They were no different, IMHO, than parachute pants or spiked collars. Eauhomme (talk) 07:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Q: Is there enough material available to warrant its own article? Much of the current text comes from Leather jacket, which already goes into some detail about use by the rocker culture (as well as The Fonz). Perhaps a sub-section in that article devoted to the Rocker culture would be sufficient until it grows big enough to be forked out into an article? Arakunem^Talk 13:43, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The difference is that while the terms "parachute pants" and "spiked collar" have many sources to verify them, rocker jacket has none. If you could point out any sources, that would change everything. The fact that you heard the term is insufficient reason to keep the article; it's WP:OR. --Dbratland (talk) 17:52, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The rocker jacket article was moved from its original title leather jacket on 5 June 2006 (diff) and the old leather jacket article was pasted over the redirect (diff). If consensus is to delete, the rocker jacket article history before the 5 June copy-and-paste move should be merged to leather jacket to keep the history with the content for copyright reasons per WP:CPMV. --Muchness (talk) 16:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete without prejudice to creating a new article if adequate sources can be found. I've searched and cannot find anything substantial to verify the article's contents. The phrase "rocker jacket" is certainly in use, but I've found sources applying the term to a variety of different jacket styles, from denim jackets to blazers to leather jackets. An overview article detailing the different current and historical usages of the term may be viable if reliable sources can be found. --Muchness (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There's a couple of hits on Google Books, but they don't convince me. For your information, all you children of the 80s, I fathered the 80s, but I don't remember spawning the concept "rocker jacket." Drmies (talk) 05:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 12:15, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.