Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maxim Shuvalov

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. v/r - T P 17:15, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maxim Shuvalov

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Non-notable hockey player, fails criteria of WP:NHOCKEY as well as the GNG; never played professional hockey nor met the criteria for notability of a junior player. Player died in the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash, but this is a WP:ONEEVENT issue. ῲ Ravenswing ῴ 10:45, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I note that Max is a player in the junior national team of Russia, and with it won the bronze medal world championship. 100 matches for the club lights not because it was transferred to the main part and flew the first official game for the first team. Sorry for the bad english. JukoFF (talk) 11:43, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Junior players don't meet the requirements of NHOCKEY. Have to play for the senior team. -DJSasso (talk) 11:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Redirect to the crash article. Unfortunately a WP:BLP1E situation. -DJSasso (talk) 11:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash#Team players. As the creator of this article, and with my sincere condolences to this young man's family and friends, while it is likely that foreign-language press has more coverage about this talented young hockey player, until it can be demonstrated that he passes WP:GNG, I agree with Djsasso that this article should be redirected (as he boldly did on September 7th). Dolovis (talk) 14:36, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I've no objection, of course, to a redirect. ῲ Ravenswing ῴ 14:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for now. Winning a medal on a national championship counts for something. Alternately, one could merge this into a one-paragraph section of the article about the crash.Ryoung122 18:47, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: It might "count for something," but one of the things for which it doesn't count is meeting any of Wikipedia's notability criteria. ῲ Ravenswing ῴ 19:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Winning a WJC gold medal by itself does not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria. And being involved in a notable plane crash by itself does not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria either, due to WP:BLP1E. But I am not convinced that winning a WJC gold medal and being involved in a notable plane crash is not enough. Rlendog (talk) 02:31, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Gets press coverage in Russia, and is notable enough for 5 other language Wikipedias. --Hockeyben ^✉ 14:52, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please demonstrate that he passes WP:GNG. Can you provide links to the media sources which have covered Shuvalov? Dolovis (talk) 15:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 16:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or redirect - Even if he does not meet notability requirements, given that there is an appropriate, indeed ideal, redirect target the most that should be done is redirect, and deletion should not even be an issue. Keeping does not seem unreasonable since, given how much coverage the crash has received, it would not take much more to get over the GNG bar. Although I have no idea how to search for appropriate Russian sources, by analogy with North American players, it seems unlikely that he would have (1) played well enough as a junior to make the Russian WJC team, and (2) win a gold medal at the WJC with the Russian team (which also received coverage for its behavior in the aftermath of its victory) and not receive any coverage that would put him over the top (so to speak) for GNG when combined with his crash coverage. Rlendog (talk) 02:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with the analogy is that there is almost no coverage of the WJC outside Canada and a little bit in the US. Its mostly considered a North American tournament that no one outside NA cares about (which is why they draw very low attendance in Europe). So getting a medal there doesn't necessarily get you any coverage if you aren't Canadian. But as I mentioned above I agree with redirecting. I did it prior to this being taken to afd. -DJSasso (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't claim any expertise on the level of coverage the WJC gets outside North America, although I do know that the Russian team was pretty excited about winning, given the aftermath - they didn't seem to regard it as some North American tournament that people back home barely care about. But part of my point is that it is a team of top under 20 year olds representing their country. And to be one of the top under 20 hockey players in Russia is to be one of the top under 20s in the world. And it seems unlikely that one would be a top under 20 in Russia - good enough to make their WJC team - and not generate enough coverage to push their notability over the top when combined with the coverage from the crash. That said, until and unless someone actually produces such coverage, I have no problems with redirecting. Rlendog (talk) 01:58, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tough call, but I'm leaning towards keep. As Rlendog says above, being one of the top hockey prospects in Russia also makes you one of the top hockey prospects in the world, and although the following statement is obviously pure speculation, I'm pretty confident Shuvalov would have gone on to have a fine career as a professional if he had lived. Fwiw, I'd also like to point out that there are several en:wp articles on junior/college players in other sports who never made it to the professional level because of an early death. Examples: Len Bias, Chris Street, Leon Bender, Ian Frodsham, Kiyan Prince. –Badmotorfinger (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: ... and who have been demonstrated - not surmised, demonstrated - to meet the GNG. Of course, whatever career as a professional he might have had is, by WP:CRYSTAL, cannot be considered as establishing notability, even were it not the case (which it is) that many sterling young prospects never make the pros, let alone succeed in them. Ravenswing 17:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because - he was an elite level hockey player who won a Bronze Medal for his country in a major international tournament (the World Junior Championships); and because he was the 38th overall draft pick by the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl in the KHL Draft; and because he was travelling with this elite level professional hockey team towards the first game of the 2011–12 KHL season; and because he was killed as a result of the most tragic sports disaster the world has ever known; and because his death was all the more tragic because he was the youngest player killed in the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash; and because a Gnews search for his Russian name “Максим Шувалов” returns over 50 hits demonstrating GNG[1] - he is a notable subject. Kugao (talk) 20:30, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- meets and exceeds WP:GNG by way of pre-crash nation-wide coverage in the Russian Federation. Examples (my translation):

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.