Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luna Snow

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of Marvel Comics characters: L#Luna Snow. asilvering (talk) 03:38, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Luna Snow

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

So after discovering this article, I wanted to do a hard dive into sources on it. However, upon digging...there's really next to nothing. Several articles are addressing the fact people thought she was a new character in Marvel Rivals, but they are carbon copies of one another: explaining the character's origin and usage, with no reception or discussion about her as a character itself. This article from Polygon felt like the strongest source, and what got my interest piqued to check for more, but even it barely discusses her, and is more about Iron Fist's redesign and Rivals.

Scholar also turned up nothing. She's a character in a vacuum, and while I'd rather be proven wrong I just can't find anything through a thorough WP:BEFORE to indicate she's notable. Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:49, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Video games, and Comics and animation. Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:49, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have no immediate comment on deletion yet, but I am opening the possibility of a list of Marvel Rivals characters (comparable to the Overwatch one) given that they have spoken about including less well-known characters from the Marvel cannon, where notability outside of the game is unlikely. Most of the heroes in Rivals are notable before the game (even Jeff) but I am sure we'll see more. — Masem (t) 16:02, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know if a list is really necessary compared to a table in the game's article for now, but once the cast grows I could see it as a good idea to do such a list.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think that there is enough coverage of heroes as in the game to do a list with two paragraphs for each, one briefly summarizing the Canon of the character, and a second to cover their skill kit, as is done for the Overwatch ones. Judging by how the new heroes have been covered. This would also recent excessive game details on the individual char articles. But still thinking this through. — Masem (t) 20:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep [1] [2] [3] [4] (game guides can still qualify as SIGCOV as long as the article itself is not) as well as the other sources shown in the article, make me feel like this character is probably notable on her own. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:31, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - There is sufficient coverage such as MSN, DEXERTO, Kotaku, Polygon, TechRadar etc. Drushrush (talk) 16:38, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- The first source is useless, it's a short note about fans of a niche game being upset about a price of a cosmetic item featuring her. It has nothing to do with her outside her being part of the said cosmetic. Second source is a bit longer but again, it focuses on mechanics of her character in a game, it's mostly useless for us. Third is more reliable and longer but it is still about her video game character in that particular game. Fourth is again about the game, but it is reliable and it goes beyond mechanics to discuss some cultural stuff. Fifth is a review of the cosmetic. Sigh. I am sorry, but those sources are not about Luna Snow, they are about Luna Snow (Marvel Rivals character). If this is all we have, then sadly, we cannot warrant keeping an article on her, but we could write up an article on the video game version of her character. Weird, I know... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: as per 4 sources above. AgerJoy talk 18:32, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Drushrush: @Zxcvbnm: @AgerJoy: While gameguide material can be used to establish character notability, it still needs to assert some importance outside of the game itself i.e. players being attacked for using Symmetra in Overwatch for how poor hers was or outright using her a troll pick to frustrate players. None of that is indicated here. There is also next to no discussion of the character as a fictional character outside of the Polygon article above, which is what we should be aiming for first and foremost. One needs to consider what the sources are saying for WP:SIGCOV, not that they simply exist.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:50, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. I do my best to look for any angle to justify an article's creation, but here, I find it uncompelling that all the sources are a combination of game guide discussion and/or offer limited commentary. I don't think it's a weak article situation, I've seen worse, but I would be more comfortable if there were stronger articles to cite. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (and/or merge) per my analysis of sources above. What we have is mostly about video game character, not about the comic book character... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep – The deletion rationale does not account for Luna Snow’s broader multimedia presence, which establishes her notability beyond just Marvel Rivals. She is a playable character in five different video games (Marvel Future Fight, Marvel Super War, Marvel Snap, Marvel Puzzle Quest, Marvel Rivals), has appeared in the new animated series Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, and has released more than five officially licensed songs. Additionally, Luna Snow is one of the very few Korean superheroes in Marvel Comics, making her significant in terms of representation and diversity. Existing references in the article already discuss this aspect, further reinforcing her significance beyond her video game appearances. Furthermore, per WP:NFICTION, fictional characters can be considered notable if they have substantial independent coverage outside of plot summaries. While much of the current discussion focuses on game-related sources, her presence across multiple mediums suggests that she has had lasting impact. Additional coverage should be incorporated rather than outright deletion. If necessary, the article should be improved rather than removed. – Pokedigi (talk) 22:10, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- @Pokedigi: While I get that, even looking up those alternate media outlets doesn't seem to provide any commentary on her as a character in terms of WP:SIGCOV. We need actual sources proving that she is discussed in secondary reliable sources, not that she simply exists. Otherwise you're basically arguing "sources must exist", no?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:19, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  The article currently contains over 50 references. Are you suggesting that none of them provide the level of reliability or depth required to justify its existence? If there are concerns about specific sources, they should be evaluated and, if necessary, removed or replaced rather than using their perceived weakness as grounds for deletion. It's unusual to see an article with this many citations flagged for deletion rather than improved. Pokedigi (talk) 23:59, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Having a large number of citations does not by itself make an article notable or worthy of being separate from a main topic. To demonstrate why:
  Number of primary sources: 35
  
  Number of routine sources: 35
  
  In total, the article uses 80 sources, 70 of which are either routine coverage of announcements related to the character or primary sources. So, a total of 10 sources, and even then, I was pretty conservative with calling sources "routine." For instance, "Marvel Rivals: Who is Luna Snow?" many would consider this routine coverage, same with "Who is Luna Snow in Marvel? Powers, origins, and more explained." If we eliminated such articles that just give an explanation of the character, we're down to 7. Now, let's examine these 7 sources:
  An actually interesting piece titled "A Spider-Verse Hero's Friendship Shows the Importance of New Perspectives"
  
  A review of Marvel's Voices that expresses excitement about her appearing
  
  An article about the team she belongs to that doesn't talk about her in any significant way
  
  An article listing pop stars who should be in the MCU, with Luna only given mild coverage
  
  An article including a passing mention of a cameo in Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
  
  Another article including a passing mention of a cameo in Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
  
  A brief mention by Luna of enjoying voicing the character
  
  Of these sources, I would say that only one talks about her in any significant depth, the first one, while the others provide minimal coverage, except for the review of Marvel's Voices, which lands somewhere in between.
  
  Simply put, this is why having a large number of sources tells us nothing about a subject's notability. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 02:21, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, a second-stringer character to be sure but per earlier comments there is sufficient coverage in secondary sources to meet NOTE. Morgan695 (talk) 16:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Can you identify what you think the three strongest sources are, either in the article or linked in the AfD? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:03, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Merge/redirect supporters are rebutting the sources in the article and offered by the keeps, and while there are more "keeps" than !votes for other outcomes I wouldn't call it a consensus yet. Perhaps a source assessment would be beneficial for other editors?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:13, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the claims of the other users who voted keep. --Rtkat3 (talk) 20:25, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I feel I need to stress again that this isn't a vote; the issue hasn't changed that none of the sources presented offer any commentary on the character to satisfy WP:SIGCOV or even WP:THREE. It's a lot of sources verifying she exists, but nothing offering commentary. At most we have some development information, but that can fit into a list entry.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I haven't weighed in or done my research yet, but reviewing the discussion thus far, they keep !votes should be reminded of WP:VAGUEWAVE and WP:NOTAVOTE. If they don't, the closing admin certainly will... Sergecross73 msg me 18:34, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: L#Luna Snow. Most logical merge target given the subject matter. As for the sourcing, nothing above is showing that this meets WP:GNG, given it's primarily WP:ROUTINE coverage or very oddly specific coverage that really doesn't show the character's impact in the real world. There may be potential for future recreation given Rivals' popularity, but as of now the coverage isn't here, and we aren't a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 13:13, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: L#Luna Snow per Piotrus and source analysis above. I don't see this article passes WP:GNG at all. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 09:55, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: L. I looked through Google Books, Google Scholar, and Internet Archive, and they only have passing mentions. She doesn't seem to be notable independently of Marvel Rivals. This is one I'd be interested in writing if there were ever significant coverage, but that's years away. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 23:34, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Zxcvbnm and Drushrush. Christian75 (talk) 20:16, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.