Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Journal of System Safety

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to International System Safety Society. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Journal of System Safety

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Article PRODded with reason "Non-notable journal, tagged for notability since 2014. Not indexed in any selective databases, no in-depth independent sources. Does not meet WP:NJournals". Article dePRODded with the addition of some sources, but none reliable or in-depth. PROD reason still stands, hence: Delete. Randykitty (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academic journals-related deletion discussions. Randykitty (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop flagging this article for notability and deletion. Per academic journal notability criteria (only ONE of which must be true):

Criterion 1: The journal is considered by reliable sources to be influential in its subject area.

> Several references added explicitly stating JSS is an important journal in the subject area

> Inclusion in SafetyLit index, which is selective for the safety subject area

> SCOPUS indexing is not a requirement for notability, and there are many other Wiki articles for non-SCOPUS journals.

Criterion 2: The journal is frequently cited by other reliable sources.

> Citation info is difficult to track without full indexing, but per Google Scholar search, at least 55 SCOPUS-indexed journals have cited JSS in the last 20 years, even when JSS was not indexed in SCOPUS.

> Numerous books and standards cite JSS and JSS articles (a few references were added)

Criterion 3: The journal is historically important in its subject area.

> Included reference to Nancy Leveson safety case paper which has had broad and lasting historical impact.

SCOPUS Journals which have cited JSS in previous 20 years:

Reliability Engineering & System Safety

Safety science

Accident Analysis & Prevention

Ada User Journal

Applied Sciences

Argument & Computation

Asian Social Science

BMJ quality & safety

Chemical Engineering Transactions

Computer Communications

Disaster Prevention and Management

Electronics

Energies

Engineering Failure Analysis

Entropy

Fire Safety Journal

IEEE Access

IEEE Intelligent Transportation Systems

IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering

Int. Journal of Env Research and Pub Health

Int. Journal of Hydrogen Energy

Int. Journal of Maritime Engineering

Int. Journal of Occ Safety and Ergonomics

Int. Journal of Production Research

Int. Journal of Rel, Quality & Safety Eng

IPSJ Online Transactions

J of Agricultural Safety and Health

J of Technical Education and Training

J of Engineering Design

J of Evaluation in Clinical Practice

J of Fire Sciences

J of Interpersonal Violence

J of Loss Prevention in the Process Ind

J of Manufacturing Technology Management

J of Medical Systems

J of Modelling in Management

J of Property Investment & Finance

J of Risk and Reliability

Procedia Computer Science

Proc of the Inst of Civil Eng - Forensic Eng

Process Safety Progress

Psychosomatics

Quality and Reliability Engineering Intl

Risk Analysis

Risk, Decision and Policy

SAE Technical Papers

Safety

Software and Systems Modeling

Sustainability

The Journal of Defense Modeling and Sim

The Journal of Social Science

Tunnelling and Underground Space Tech

Wind Energy Science

WMU Journal of Maritime Affairs

WSEAS Trans on Business and Economics Slthom3 (talk) 18:48, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Any sources to support these claims? We need more than just a typed list of journal names. Oaktree b (talk) 23:38, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some papers with Google Scholar links to back up claims:

Haddon, William. "The basic strategies for reducing damage from hazards of all kinds." Hazard prevention 16.1 (1980): 8-12. (cited 255 times)

Leveson, Nancy G. "The use of safety cases in certification and regulation." (2011). (cited 131 times)

Cunitz, Robert J. "Psychologically effective warnings." Hazard Prevention 17.3 (1981): 5-7. (cited 47 times)

Redmill, Felix, and Redmill Consultancy. "An introduction to the safety standard IEC 61508." Hazard Prevention 35.1 (1999): 20-25. (cited 29 times)

Braband, Jens. "Improving the risk priority number concept." Journal of System Safety 39.3 (2003): 21-23. (cited 48 times)

Rae, Andrew, et al. "The science and superstition of quantitative risk assessment." Journal of Systems Safety 48.4 (2012): 28. (cited 29 times)

Hawkins, R. D., and T. P. Kelly. "A systematic approach for developing software safety arguments." Hazard prevention 46.4 (2010): 25. (cited 32 times)

Note that safety is a relatively low citation field. For comparison, here are other safety and risk journals in Wikipedia not being arbitrarily proposed for deletion:

Proceedings of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, Part O: Journal of Risk and Reliability - Impact factor 0.775

International Journal of Reliability, Quality and Safety Engineering - Impact factor 0.523

International Journal of Injury Control and Safety Promotion - Impact Factor 0.875

The Journal of Operational Risk - Impact Factor 0.576

The Journal of Risk Model Validation - Impact Factor 0.250

Journal of Risk Research - Impact Factor 1.34 Slthom3 (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to International System Safety Society. I don't see the journal as being independent of it, especially because of its lack of indexing. Being cited in other journals is nice, but it is also routine. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 07:58, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Independence is not one of the three notability criteria. Frequent citation is a criterion. See below (emphasis added)

2.b) The only reasonably accurate way of finding citations to journals are via bibliographic databases and citation indices, such as general services like Web of Science, Scopus, and Google Scholar, or field-specific services like Astrophysics Data System, MathSciNet, Chemical Abstracts, International Bibliography of the Social Sciences, and PubMed. The comprehensiveness of the coverage varies by field, geography, language, and thus the threshold for constitute "frequently cited" varies by field. A journal's h-index is a useful metric, although can be hard to reliably obtain for the above reason, and again needs to be compared against what constitute high h-index in the journal's field. Slthom3 (talk) 15:32, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It also seems odd to merge a journal page that has been up for 8 years with a society page that I literally created yesterday...

The journal page sat for eight years, then I significantly improve it this week and add references. Suddenly it needs deleting?? Come on. Slthom3 (talk) 15:43, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merging is not deletion. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:45, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see whether there is support for a Merge here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:49, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notability criteria 1, 2, and 3 are met as described in detail above. Slthom3 (talk) 00:07, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: nothing what you have posted above indicates any notability, you're misinterpreting NJournals. As Headbomb wrote above, the citations listed are all routine and the IF of the citing journals is absolutely irrelevant. In principle, I can live with a merge, although I'm not convinced that the society itself is notable. My preference remains delete. --Randykitty (talk) 07:49, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are the one putting your own spin on NJournals

Criterion 1: The journal is considered by reliable sources to be influential in its subject area. -> I provided references to books from major publishers that literally say this is an "important journal".

Criterion 2: The journal is frequently cited by other reliable sources. -> Not SCOPUS indexing. "Routine citations" are literally the definition of criterion 2. So I provided evidence of citations. Slthom3 (talk) 01:14, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Routine citations" is not the objection. A handful of citation is the objection. That's a routine fact, not an exceptional one. Google Scholar doesn't even have it is in top 20 journals on Safety. It has an h5-index of under 20. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:37, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The same could be said for all of these journals, but their Wikipedia articles still exist...

International Journal of Reliability, Quality and Safety Engineering

International Journal of Injury Control and Safety Promotion

The Journal of Operational Risk

The Journal of Risk Model Validation

Slthom3 (talk) 01:50, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not a good argument in an AfD discussion... --Randykitty (talk) 07:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC) PS: each one of those journals is included in at least one highly selective database (Scopus or Science Citation Index). The articles are not very good, but that's irrelevant for inclusion. --Randykitty (talk) 07:48, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Neither is "you don't meet my highly subjective definition of notability that I apply arbitrarily and capriciously." And yet here we are. Slthom3 (talk) 01:41, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:05, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to International System Safety Society per Headbomb. I'm not sure if the latter article is notable either, but this journal doesn't seem to meet notability and the other article exists and isn't up for deletion. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 20:51, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.