Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heterosexualization (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 23:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Heterosexualization

An earlier version of this was nominated for deletion on August 9. The article claims that "Heterosexualization" has a specific meaning linked to the Westernization of non-Western cultures. This concept seems to unique the source used, which was determined to be unreliable by the Reliable Sources board some months ago. (Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_10#Masculinity_for_Boys). Google scholar reveals that a significant number of articles do use the word "heterosexualization", but most seem to use it to mean nothing more than "removing homosexuality" [1]. For example an article on lesbians in mainstream cinema discusses the fact that most "lesbian" scenes are not designed to show actual lesbian life, but to appeal to heterosexuals in the audience. Though the word appears in a few article titles, it does not seem to be a significant concept in its own right. I don't really think there is enough there to justify an article. The definition used in the article - which is presented as undisputed fact - seems to be unique to user:Masculinity's source, which has already been deemed unreliable by the community. Paul B (talk) 23:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. —Aleta ^Sing 02:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete again. The first afd was closed as userify, and the article is different, but no better now. DGG (talk) 02:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been added to the list of LGBT related deletions. Aleta ^Sing 02:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete. If the word exists, it can be defined in wiktionary. Without sources showing the concept is discussed (using this term), it is non-notable.Yobmod (talk) 08:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as non-notable. Aleta ^Sing 18:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC) Comment: I'm not sure what to do with this. It is not acceptable as it is, however. At least some of it is WP:OR, such as saying heterosexualization exerts pressure on boys, and then backing it up with an anecdote of someone who had pressures exerted on him. Aleta ^Sing 18:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Masculinity has now tried to resolve the problem by simply googling the word "heterosexualization" and stuffing the page with pseudo-footnotes to create the impression that these support his initial definition, which they palpably do not since many of them are unreliable and others are presented with elaborate misleading glosses by the editor. This is obvious intellectual imposture - the epitome of WP:SYN. It's just the sort of thing that Wikipedia should zap on sight. Paul B (talk) 22:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aleta, whatever is decided about this page, Wikipedia's rules specifically say that summariziing a valid research from a reliable source is not original research nor POV. The example of Troben is quoted only to give a very specific example. The said research from Denmark is full of accounts of boys undergoing the pressure to be heterosexual, both by ridiculing and disowning their sexual feelings for boys and by faking up sexual need for women. Please have a cursory look at the research before you decide about that. Besides I have given four different sources, including additional fifth sixth and seventh sources within the research from Denmark, which talks about this pressure specifically (I'll quote: Görlich & Kirkegaard emphasize that to be a real boy one has to live up to a series of principles on masculinity (See also Søndergaard 1996; Demant & Klinge-Christensen 2004). One of those principles is to choose and direct your heterosexual desire towards girls). Besides, I've now qualified the paragraph with, "According to some research available", which should address the reservations about the said paragraph. (Masculinity (talk) 09:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

You are aware that Denmark is not a "non-Western" country, so it has nothing to do with your definitional claims? All that this evidence proves is that boys feel pressure to be "normal" according to the expectations of their society. This isn't news, and it sure is not evidence for the claims that the article makes. Paul B (talk) 10:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are confusing this page with non-western sexuality... this is about heterosexualization... Western spaces were heterosexualized in the last 50 years, while non-westernized societies are being heterosexualized right now.(Masculinity (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Oh please. Read your own article. Read the first sentence. The feelings of young Torben are in modern Denmark, not the Denmark of more than 50 years ago, and the meaning of the term "heterosexualized spaces" in the article is almost totally unrelated to your definition. It has nothing whatever to do with a process happening in "non-westernized societies", and I suspect you know it.Paul B (talk) 15:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Point well taken. I have deleted the word "non-western" from the first sentence and included the sentence, "most parts of the west are already heterosexualized" in the paragraph. The focus here is heterosexualization, and while Denmark is a heterosexualized society, the non-west is going through heterosexualization. The text for which the reference has been given, talks about the characteristics of a heterosexualized society.(Masculinity (talk) 20:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Delete per nom. And a warning to the deliberately misleading pseudo-footnote stuffer. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 01:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Heteronormativity and be done with it. Protonk (talk) 18:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.