Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Back from Ashes
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. Keilana|Parlez ici 03:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Back from Ashes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Not sure if notable. Most sources are facebook, youtube or promotional. No notable releases. No major sources found. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Band won “Music Video of the Year” and “Producer's Choice Modern Rock Band of the Year” at the Los Angeles/Phoenix Music Awards in addition to winning the 2011 Rockstar Mayhem Festival Jaegermeister Battle of the Bands competition. Band has ten 2010 Grammy Award ballot entries, received a Star Music Award for Best Hard Rock/Metal Band in 2008, has been signed by Howling Bull Records (a record label affiliated with Avenged Sevenfold) and have had several radio interviews (including Matty Grant and Tina Peek).--Jax 0677 (talk) 00:31, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- None of which is notable. The awards you cited are not by a reputable, significant group per WP:GNG. I see no mention of them being Grammy nominees anywhere. Star Music Award is not notable. Association with other artists does not work per WP:NOTINHERITED. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:56, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Ensemble meets WP:MUSIC Points 8, 9 and 12. Band was on the ballot for Grammy Awards. Rockstar Mayhem Festival is a major international music tour, in which thousands of bands compete to play in a particular city. Los Angeles/Phoenix Music Awards is pretty big as well. They have been the "featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio [network]" on several occasions.--Jax 0677 (talk) 01:20, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- How is one "on the ballot" for Grammy Awards? What does that even mean? Does it mean they're in the pool to be narrowed down for the 5 nominees? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 01:23, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Since the band was not on the final and official ballot for the Grammys (which is what 8 actually means by "nominated"), it's pretty obvious that the band was one of hundreds upon thousands of entries submitted to be potentially entered on the final ballot. Since all that is required at this stage in the game is that the work is eligible for the award for that year and that it's in the correct category, being "nominated" for the ballot is not in itself a sign of notability, especially since almost any individual or recording company can submit their song or album. Even if the band was thisclose to being on the official ballot, the important thing to remember is that they weren't, and as such the Grammy claims do not show notability in any format. As far as the other awards go, you have to show that they are notable. Being a big competition does not always guarantee notability as far as Wikipedia is concerned. So in other words, you must first show proof that the competitions are notable and then that will help show notability for the band. I don't really have an opinion one way or another, but you've got to be very careful about how you claim things because no matter what spin you put on a non-notable award/action/event, it doesn't make it something that will show notability.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 03:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I have to agree that there's a distinction between a band getting on a preliminary Grammy ballot, and being a bona fide Grammy nominee. This band appears to meet the former (at least according to this press release), but not the latter. Gongshow Talk 06:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Since the band was not on the final and official ballot for the Grammys (which is what 8 actually means by "nominated"), it's pretty obvious that the band was one of hundreds upon thousands of entries submitted to be potentially entered on the final ballot. Since all that is required at this stage in the game is that the work is eligible for the award for that year and that it's in the correct category, being "nominated" for the ballot is not in itself a sign of notability, especially since almost any individual or recording company can submit their song or album. Even if the band was thisclose to being on the official ballot, the important thing to remember is that they weren't, and as such the Grammy claims do not show notability in any format. As far as the other awards go, you have to show that they are notable. Being a big competition does not always guarantee notability as far as Wikipedia is concerned. So in other words, you must first show proof that the competitions are notable and then that will help show notability for the band. I don't really have an opinion one way or another, but you've got to be very careful about how you claim things because no matter what spin you put on a non-notable award/action/event, it doesn't make it something that will show notability.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 03:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- How is one "on the ballot" for Grammy Awards? What does that even mean? Does it mean they're in the pool to be narrowed down for the 5 nominees? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 01:23, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Ensemble meets WP:MUSIC Points 8, 9 and 12. Band was on the ballot for Grammy Awards. Rockstar Mayhem Festival is a major international music tour, in which thousands of bands compete to play in a particular city. Los Angeles/Phoenix Music Awards is pretty big as well. They have been the "featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio [network]" on several occasions.--Jax 0677 (talk) 01:20, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - The sourcing in the article is marginal at best, with quite a bit of primary sources used. With respect to meeting point 8, 9, and 12 of WP:MUSIC:
- Point 8 refers to winning or being nominated for a major music award; They were not nominated for a Grammy. The other awards are not major awards.
- Point 9 refers to major music competitions; winning a minor battle of the bands competition does not satisfy this point.
- As to point 12, I don't see any evidence of them being featured on a national radio or television broadcast. Inernet radio does not count. -- Whpq (talk) 16:52, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:59, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. No indication that the band meets any of the criteria of WP:BAND, and no other indication of notability. --Michig (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Rockstar Mayhem Festival Jaegermeister Battle of the Bands is a competition, it is based on musical talent and Rockstar Mayhem Festival is a major international concert tour notable enough to be on Wikipedia along with the Jaegermeister Battle of the Bands winners. The winner for each city is ultimately chosen based on musical talent. In my humble opinion, this makes it a "major music competition". The band has an incredible number of accolades which I plan to add in the upcoming hours. Thanks :)--Jax 0677 (talk) 21:26, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Something a little more than your humble opinion is needed to establish this battle of thebands as a major music competition; reliable sources would be needed to show it. -- Whpq (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - There is a Wikipedia article about Mayhem Festival ON WIKIPEDIA. If the battle of the bands is not notable, then the bands that won would not be shown in the article.--Jax 0677 (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, Mayhem Festival looks notable and non trivial, with easily dozens of pages of coveage on Google News. However, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED, and "they were in a notable music festival" is not an ironclad definition of notability. A band can meet a criterion of WP:BAND and still fail WP:GNG, and as far as I can tell, they do not meet the "reliable third party coverage" part. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - There is a Wikipedia article about Mayhem Festival ON WIKIPEDIA. If the battle of the bands is not notable, then the bands that won would not be shown in the article.--Jax 0677 (talk) 00:42, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Whatever the outcome of this still-open AfD, WP:Requests for comment/TenPoundHammer has already decided to blank and redirect the album articles for The Suffering Within, 261 (album), Back from Ashes (EP) & Broken (Back from Ashes album). This is a pattern of disruptive behaviour that TenPoundHammer has recently taken to, probably following the criticism of his excessive deletions. Whilst not quite as bad as his blanking of Viz (comic) characters (50+ articles blanked in under half an hour), this is particularly egregious behaviour when it's done around an article that's already at AfD. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:55, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Now raised at WP:AN/I
- The thread is here: WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#TenPoundHammer_switches_from_deletion_to_blanking Andy Dingley (talk) 00:08, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Hardly disruptive. I think the consensus is clear that the band is not notable, and my redirection there will only save AFDs or A9s for their works down the road. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- If consensus is for deletion, then we delete it and carry on. The trouble is that your actions are the antithesis of consensus, even if for some articles they might end up with the same conclusion. In other articles though, they don't. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:55, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Hardly disruptive. I think the consensus is clear that the band is not notable, and my redirection there will only save AFDs or A9s for their works down the road. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. I can not find significant coverage in reliable sources for this band; does not appear at this time to satisfy WP:GNG or any of the WP:BAND criteria. Regarding the latter guideline, I concur with the above comments by TokyoGirl79 and Whpq. Gongshow Talk 01:26, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why was the Two Dollar Grey voted Delete without prejudice to recreation when the band becomes notable, and this one is not?--Jax 0677 (talk) 03:31, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Generally, anything topic can be recreated in the future if it becomes notable later. Stating "without prejudice to recreation" is simply some emphasis. -- Whpq (talk) 11:33, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Back From Ashes was on the front cover of Rock Thiz Magazine, with a three page article. The ensemble was also reviewed by Eric Vellone at Muen Magazine.--Jax 0677 (talk) 03:24, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Just to confirm, the cover of the magazine is here (scroll down to issue 6). As far as I can tell though, Muen Magazine is a blog powered by Wordpress.--Michig (talk) 18:30, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.