Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Fresh

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 19:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Fresh

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Currently non-notable musician fails GNG and MUSICBIO. ^Bongo_matic 10:40, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Meets music notability #1 & #11

Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.,

Works comprising merely trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories.

Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. Candyo32 (talk) 12:01, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The first two ("Any reprints" and "merely trivial") are explicitly excluded from evidencing notability. The third ("in rotation") is not suggested by any source. ^Bongo_matic 15:46, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where's the page/guideline that says the are "explicitly excluded", because I don't see it? "In rotation" is suggested by reliable source Allaccess Candyo32 (talk) 20:45, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Read MUSICBIO criterion 1 more closely: it says "published works in all forms except", and then lists the two clauses you quoted above. ^Bongo_matic 01:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well it still meets #11, and it says at least meets one of the following. Candyo32 (talk) 01:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which source states that the artist has been placed in national rotation by a major network? ^Bongo_matic 02:31, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Allaccess source states that it is in rotation on 50+ pop stations and 50+ rhythmic. Candyo32 (talk) 11:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not a reliable source;
50+ pop stations / 50+ rhythmic is not equivalent to national rotation by a major network. ^Bongo_matic 13:08, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well if AllAccess is not a reliable source for the music industry, and 50+ pop and 50+ rhythmic is not equivalent to a major network then what is? What do you consider a "major network", and a reliable source for the radio industry? Candyo32 (talk) 23:35, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think what is meant by "major network" in the context of "national rotation" is a network on the scale of Clear Channel, Westwood One, etc. Others here are welcome to opine as to interpretation (the MUSCIBIO talk page history may also have some discussion on the matter). ^Bongo_matic 01:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well Allaccess & FMQB are the only sites that relay Mediabase stats, so there you go. According to Allaccess, stations spinning his song are through Sirius, CBS Radio, and Clear Channel through two, just to name a few. Candyo32 (talk) 02:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the Allaccess link is behind a login wall so I can't see it. However, being played at a few station that are part of a network is not the same as being put into national rotation by a network. ^Bongo_matic 02:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Few" = 20+ for Clear Channel networks, and that's just pop radio only. How can Clear Channel or Westwood One rotate songs when the radio stations add and rotate their own songs? The flagship owner isn't in charge of adding and rotating, the station does. And for what its worth the login is free. Candyo32 (talk) 03:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. -- -- Lear's Fool (talk | contribs) 14:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- -- Lear's Fool (talk | contribs) 14:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:MUSICBIO so far. No major label album released (Hollywood-style alleged future release dates are WP:CRYSTAL); "Spending All My Time" only released 2 weeks; no evidence of sales charting; no evidence of a national network's rotation. (I believe that MUSICBIO #11 "in rotation nationally by any major radio network" refers primarily to syndicated music feeds and centrally-controlled playlists. It does not refer to simultaneous local decisions. I'd like to see Mediabase, but I guess they don't want their own research to pass WP:V.) --Closeapple (talk) 23:21, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to Allaccess/Mediabase, which requires login, the song is rotated on SiriusXM, and is #49 on Mainstream Top 40. As for sales charting, it is not released to digital download until May 11. Candyo32 (talk) 00:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On Clear Channel rotation, meeting #11 [1] Candyo32 (talk) 23:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 00:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, sources prove #11, per song is on SirusXM rotation and Clear Channel. Candyo32 (talk) 05:12, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article: As of May 10, Radio Disney lists the single "Spending All My Time" on their Top 30 list at http://radio.disney.go.com/music/top30.html . Larrymcp (talk) 15:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC) larrymcp[reply]
Delete Lack of significant coverage in 3rd party sources is the biggest problem here. Radio Disney list is interesting but this is not a recognized national chart that might help meet criteria #2 of WP:MUSICBIO and also isn't sufficient evidence of regular rotation (#11). #11 works well when rotation is mentioned in an article in something like Billboard magazine but doesn't work here.--RadioFan (talk) 20:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Billboard magazine really? For a normal single? & Radio Disney makes third source to prove #11. Also about "sufficient evidence" AllAccess and FMQB are the only sites than the registered Mediabase that give out radio details. Candyo32 (talk) 21:13, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Candyo32 (talk) 21:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FMQB or Mediabase would be fine as a reference proving #11 but I dont see either in the article.--RadioFan (talk) 22:07, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I said FMQB or Allaccess, because Mediabase is a registered service. FMQB only goes 1-40 and Allaccess goes 1-50, and shows the song, where it is on rotation including SirusXM meeting #11. Adding Clear Channel and RD also, meeting 11. Candyo32 (talk) 22:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All well and good but these will need to be added as citations to the article.--RadioFan (talk) 22:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've already added them. Candyo32 (talk) 22:51, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:GNG if nothing else. At least two of the sources are reliable and offer significant coverage, so I would say that was enough to justify retaining this. Alzarian16 (talk) 16:58, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.