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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The "keep" opinions must be discounted because they are based on the argument that senior military officers are automatically notable. But since the deprecation of WP:SOLDIER, that is no longer community consensus. Sandstein 13:36, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AKM Nazmul Hasan

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AKM Nazmul Hasan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Notability isn’t inherited. Didn’t received any significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Other that some passing/trivial mentions, there is zero coverage about this person. Fails WP:GNG. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 12:13, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For evaluation of additions made by IP above.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:24, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Source assessment table follows:
Source assessment table
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Yes Yes No group photo and caption only ✘ No
No Government gazette Yes No promotion listing only ✘ No
No publication of the Army Medical College, Bogura Yes No merely states that he is Chairman ✘ No
Yes Yes No Photo and one sentence about him attending a passing out parade ✘ No
No Bangladesh Army University of Engineering & Technology website Yes No mere listing as member of Board of Trustees ✘ No
Bogura Cantonment Public School and College website, he is Chief patron unclear No welcoming message from him ✘ No
Yes Yes No passing mention of his attendance only ✘ No
Yes Yes No passing mention of his attendance only ✘ No
Yes Yes No photo and caption only ✘ No
Yes Yes No photo and brief mention ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
a string of passing mentions of him attending to run of the mill duties that don't amount to significant coverage. Mztourist (talk) 14:44, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I agree with Mztourist that these references show Nazmul Hasan involved in routine duties. The problem is that these routine duties have him serving as the Chair of the Governing Body of a Medical School, on the Board of Trustees of a University, as Patron of a School, as well as being a Major General commanding a Division and a district, and we have nothing about his career that led to him being an officer of flag rank or holding such responsibilities. How can he have achieved all that and get publicity for routine duties without anything substantive having been written? I have not !voted "keep" as I don't see WP notability established in these references, but I also don't see how there can be no more to say. We need a search for references by someone fluent in Bengali who can read the gazette and look for related references (I found where / when the Gazette was published etc, but Google translate can't make sense of it, so I am AGFing there is something relevant on its 5th page, but its date from March 2021 makes it an odd place to list his graduation in 1988. I will call for assistance from any relevant WikiProjects. 172.195.96.244 (talk) 23:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Addendum: I have posted a request for assistance / comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh#AKM Nazmul Hasan and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#AKM Nazmul Hasan. I have made clear that contributions / thoughts are welcome from any perspective and I have asked there and posted here so that my actions are open to all to see. As I have noted above, I believe that Bengali-language sources are needed here, but I also recognise that, should none be forthcoming, the consensus could well be to delete this article on notability grounds. Others may also want to place notifications to relevant WikiProjects. 172.195.96.244 (talk) 23:56, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment At the bottom of page 5 of the gazette is a single table row about him (এ, কে, এম নাজমুল হাসান). The name, rank, and serial number column translates roughly to: "BA-3443 Temporary Major General / A, K, M Nazmul Hasan, ndc, psc". In the staff/services column is the word "staff". Then comes date of commission / date of seniority, which is 24 June 1988. Finally is date of temporary promotion: 4 March 2020. It's a reliable source that supports his date of commission, but it isn't independent or significant coverage.
      • Some Wikipedians believe that if a class of things (i.e. divisional commanders, army divisions, schools, ...) is notable where they live, the same class of things ought to be notable everywhere, and that if we can't find the sources to prove it, it must be because those sources aren't online, or aren't in English. There is some truth to that, but in my experience, the types of things that get written about extensively in the West are not necessarily written about much in Bangladesh. If the 11th Division and their base, Bogra Cantonment, were in the UK or US, I suspect someone would have published book-length unit and base histories about them. But they're in Bangladesh, and I haven't found any detailed, independent, secondary sources, even offline or in Bengali.
      • The Bangladesh military own and operate a large number of businesses, including universities and medical schools. Through seniority, even officers who just plod along will eventually collect a number of appointments within "Milbus" (a term, coined by Ayesha Siddiqa in Military lnc.: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy, which applies quite well to Bangladesh too). Hasan may be worthy of notice, or may not be, a list of his positions assembled from passing mentions doesn't tell us. --Worldbruce (talk) 03:23, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Agree with Necrothesp - "divisional commanders are clearly notable", and according to the article, he has geographical responsibility as well. A division command has significant leadership responsibility and influence. Semper fi! FieldMarine (talk) 21:41, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What policy or guideline supports this argument? Mztourist (talk) 08:08, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TonyBallioni (talk) 22:07, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - Agree with User:Necrothesp He is notable. Added another reference from Daily Star.

https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/army-chief-distributes-warm-clothes-sirajganj-2928801 Mommmyy (talk) 15:38, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I'm fine if the community wishes to create a WP:SOLDIER 2.0 that says military officers who have commanded a division are notable even if there is no independent coverage in secondary sources, but the community hasn't done so. The cited sources, and others found by searching in English and Bengali, are brief mentions on websites of army-run institutions, or in primary source ISPR press releases, such as "Major General AKM Nazmul Hasan was the chief guest at the army basketball tournament and distributed prizes among the winners". Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. No policy-based reason for keep has been advanced. --Worldbruce (talk) 15:46, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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