Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018 Colts Neck mansion killings

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Lourdes 13:19, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2018 Colts Neck mansion killings

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Event without lasting notability, all coverage is from within two weeks of the event in November 2018. Per the relevant notability guideline WP:EVENTCRIT: "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." DePROD by Necrothesp who suggested that a multiple homicide should be taken to AfD. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep for now - local and state level coverage continuing. Was a national level story (e.g. CNN had an item a month ago). Nj.com ranks this as the biggest NJ crime story of 2018 - [1]. If coverage goes dormant, it might not be notable, but given continuing coverage this 2.5 month old event is still RAPIDish.Icewhiz (talk) 18:49, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 19:06, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:02, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above. Some coverage from this month [2]. Shashank5988 (talk) 20:29, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per coverage. Notable.BabbaQ (talk) 18:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep and revisit after the trial.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:NOTNEWS. I don't understand !votes of "keep for now". What does that mean? If it turns out that this isn't notable after all, we should delete it? That's the world on its head. At this point, this is just another murder case. Sure, it was gruesome (two children among the victims) and all that, but that doesn't translate into notability. For events like this, it has to be shown that there is lasting coverage (like the Manson murders), which for an event that happened last November is for the moment impossible to say, or that it influences policy/laws, which for the same reason is impossible to say at this point (but unlikely). Sure, there will be some coverage again when this goes to trial, but that's also routine. Such coverage can be found for any murder, anywhere in the world (although this kind of rash creation of articles seems to be limited to US crimes...), we cannot cover every single murder ever committed and we should not. --Randykitty (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 19:11, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as a clear-cut case of WP:NOTNEWS, sourced only to news reports rather than secondary sources. I share Randykitty's bemusement about the "keep" votes above. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:04, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Single murders may well not be notable. Multiple murders almost invariably are. Frankly, I find it a rather worrying comment on American society that the murder of four people is treated in such a blasé fashion. I'm not sure this would be the case in any other Western country. I don't think that an article on such a multiple murder in my country would ever be deleted or that the crime would be considered not to be of lasting notability. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article about a double murder in your (and my) country was deleted with unanimous support just this month. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Murders generate a flurry of coverage just after they happen (especially if there's not much esle happening right at that moment) and then again a bit when it goes to trial. Then perhaps something in a local newspaper on an anniversary or so. That's not notability. Really notable murders, like Ted Bundy's or Charles Manson's are very rare. It is easy in the excitement of the moment to get carried away and find something extremely important, but some time later something else comes up and the whole thing gets forgotten. Just this morning I read a headline about a mother and her 4 children being murdered. It wa not in the US, but I doubt that we have an article on it, nor should we: gruesome as this crime is, reality is that it'll be forgotten next week. This is why WP should not have articles on current events like this, because it is way too soon to judge whether there's any lasting impact. --Randykitty (talk) 15:12, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Two people, not four! An analogy to this one would be the White House Farm murders. I don't think anyone would consider deleting that article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Several books have been published about the White House Farm murders. If that happens for the Colts Neck mansion killings then of course we can have an article, but it hasn't happened yet. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Subject fails WP:NOTNEWS, WP:LASTING and the WP10YT. See also WP:RECENTISM of which this appears to be a textbook example. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:48, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Except that the case was not treated by media like a ROUTINE murder. The Washington Post doesn't cover routine murders in the Garden State A N.J. family is dead, a mansion is burned — and a sibling is charged with murder. People Magazine : A Brother's Betrayal? How a Torched N.J. Mansion Led Police to a Slain Family and a Shocking Arrest, mansions, millions, greed, for whatever reason the story has legs Star Ledger: Colts Neck killings: Caneiro brothers' once-thriving tech business showed signs of slowing down. Point is that this looks notable because of the WP:SIGCOV it has gotten.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:42, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:26, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.