User talk:CurryTime7-24

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There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is John40332 reported by CurryTime7-24. Thank you. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 14:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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DYK for Tema "Sacher"

On 2 January 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Tema "Sacher", which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" a "truncated and barely coherent page [of music]" and "a pathetic fragment"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Tema "Sacher". You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Tema "Sacher"), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi CurryTime7-24. Thank you for your work on Tema "Sacher". Another editor, Dxneo, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

nice one.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Dxneo}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

dxneo (talk) 01:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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January music

Happy new year 2025, opened with trumpet fanfares that first sounded OTD in 1725 (as the Main page had). My story today is about a composer who influenced music history also by writing. Thanks to MONTENSEM the article developed nicely. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

... and today, pictured on the Main page, Tosca, in memory of her first appearance on stage OTD in 1900, and of principal author Brian Boulton. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Today, between many who just died, Tobias Kratzer on his 45th birthday who was good for an unusual DYK mentioning a Verdi opera in 2018, - you can see his work in the trailer of another one that I saw, and my talk page has a third (but by a different director). 2025 pics, finally. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:11, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Today I have a composer (trumpeter, conductor) on the main page who worked closely with another who became GA yesterday, - small world! To celebrate: mostly flowers pics from vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:56, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:58, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Today is Schubert's birthday. I added a pic to his article (and my story) and raised a question on the talk, regarding the lead image. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Wikivoice

Hey there. You've made two edits to text I've written ([1][2]) just saying "WP:WIKIVOICE". I felt the text was a fairly good summary of the sources but I'd like to hear you thoughts. Citing (talk) 02:17, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:VOICE, editors must "avoid stating opinions as facts". WP:CRYSTALBALL further states that citations from "expert sources" are welcomed, but that "editors should be aware of creating undue bias to any specific point of view". Perhaps climate change may ultimately be determined as a contributing factor to the recent windstorm and consequent wildfires, but the investigations into these have only just begun. Therefore, until the causes and contributing factors of the wildfires are officially determined, opinions by other uninvolved people—regardless of their knowledge or qualifications—must be clearly stated as such in the article. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 02:59, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Regarding interestingness

Hey there CurryTime. I hope this request isn't much of a bother considering what's going on right now, but is it okay if you help explain Gerda, perhaps on her talk page, how interestingness works in the context of DYK hooks? Interestingness, or more specifically meeting WP:DYKINT, has been a recurring issue with her nomination for years, and from experience it seems that she has had difficulty understanding the guideline and implementing it in her hooks. Given that you are her colleague in classical music article writing and also a DYK regular, I was wondering if you could be able to explain DYKINT to her in a way she could understand (as in why editors find her hooks problematic per the guideline), and perhaps even guide her how to hooks that better fit the guidelines. Not just DYKINT but perhaps also DYKTRIM. Thank you! Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:10, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What in that I will never understand how "a Spanish mezzo-soprano" or "opera debut" would be more interesting than "as Carmen" did you not understand? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ps: trim?

... that Ana María Iriarte (pictured) made her professional opera debut in 1945, retired from the stage in 1960, and created a foundation promoting zarzuela in 2006?

... that Ana María Iriarte (pictured) retired from the stage as Carmen in 1960, but created a foundation promoting zarzuela in 2006?

I believe that the second is shorter, more quirky (by just two dates to think about) and more interesting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:32, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can we agree that "... that Ana María Iriarte retired from the stage in 1960, but created a foundation in 2006?" is hooky and will be understood by readers? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be frank here: the more this goes on, the more I think it would have been better to just go with the El soñador angle. It would have surely gotten more readership than what has been approved and promoted. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:42, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why would anybody be interested in a woman just because she played in a piece a few decades not played? It says nothing about this woman. So not me. Long life, long time between retirement and something beneficial for her country: that sunds much more uniques to me. Also: I asked CT if we can agree. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Like a lot of your hooks, these are factoids or even capsule summaries of their subject's articles. I also know that it's important to you that your hooks positively reflect their DYK subject. However, that's not always what would hypothetically attract a reader unfamiliar with the subject. The fact that the guidelines use the term "hook" speaks for itself. This is why I keep bringing up its definition, because I believe there is a fundamental misunderstanding of its meaning that leads to a misinterpretation of guidelines. A "hook", by definition, is supposed to "sell" one on something, even by unusual or deceptive means. None of these hooks, at least to me, achieve that.

This isn't a slight against your articles, which are always well-written and sourced. Your work brightens up Wikipedia, especially classical music-related subjects, which often are in need of the loving attention you devote to them. If only you could understand the purpose of a DYK hook, then we could make of your dazzling silver into something truly golden.

By the way, if I can ever be of assistance to you in devising hooks, please don't hesitate to ask me. I'm always honored and delighted to collaborate with you. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:18, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was trained (from 2009) that it is "Did you know?" - stress on know. For Iriarte, I am sorry that I missed the deadline for RD where her unusual name alone would have received 6k clicks, - unlikely for DYK. I am not willing to "sell" a woman whose memory should be remembered. Back to the question: is early retirement and beneficial in old age a hook or not? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Her name is not unusual at all (native Spanish-speaker of Basque descent, whose family originated from a country full of Basque immigrants here!). I've already given my opinion about the above hooks, as well as the compromise version. Again, I'm a devoted admirer of your great work here. I'm concerned, however, that you appear to not misunderstand, but may instead be unwilling to accept the definition of "hook" and, therefore, the intent of the DYK guidelines. That is the persistent issue here. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:56, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Funnily enough, I actually have a niece named Carmen, so it's not as if it's an unfamiliar name to me. It's just that, as CurryTime said, just the name alone isn't going to attract readership. Just because she played a role named Carmen doesn't mean people will want to know more about her for that reason. CurryTime is saying that you have to attract readers with hooks that would attract even people who know nothing about opera and classical music, and this has been a recurring issue with your hooks for years. I already gave several easy examples before of what it means to make a "hooky" hook that meets the guidelines and I don't understand why you are having difficulty understanding the concept. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:27, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Sorry, you got me wrong, both. Let's have a look at RD:

Jean-Louis Pichon 6,332 yesterday, 12,322 over the month
Edesio Alejandro 8,101 peak, 23,324 month
Simon Lindley 7,837, 18,950 month

You can check the others. They get clicked by the name alone. It's rewarding. No waste of time thinking about a sentence, no waste of time arguing. Only: for Iriarte I missed the deadline, and thought DYK is better than nothing, and I'll waste my time to achieve that. I hope it will not happen often because life is too short. - The DYK credit still says "Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page." It says "fact". Perhaps that should be rephrased, if factual information is no longer the goal. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:39, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Factual information is and will always be the goal, but per your aforementioned quote it must be an interesting fact. WP:DYKHOOK also states that you must include a fact in the hook, not that the hook must simply state a fact. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:23, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the issue here is that what Gerda considers interesting is different from how WP:DYKG defines "interesting". It's already explained in detail in WP:DYKINT (hooks must be plausibly interesting or unusual to non-specialist audiences), but Gerda does not follow that guideline in her hooks. Gerda's interpretation of the guideline is that hooks are based on what she believes readers should know, DYKINT suggests writing hooks that would make readers want to know. These goals do not always coincide, leading in many cases to hooks that largely appeal to Gerda herself but baffle general readers and often even her fellow classical music editor collegaues. As such, there is a fundamental difference in how the guideline is understood, and that is something that needs to be resolved.

Based on this discussion above, it appears that she has difficulty understanding the guideline and its requirements as written. CurryTime, if you don't mind, could you explain DYKINT specifically in a clearer way to Gerda? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:31, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I don't follow your point about these individuals' names, which are not "unusual" at all. Even if they were, they are not relevant to DYK hook polices. (Unless the hooks had something to do with their names.) —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:33, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't think you got what I was saying. For the three people (and more than 20 others in 2025), I expanded the article, received a few supports, and then the name (and nothing else) was mentioned for fine view counts. For Iriarte, I came too late (because it was a new article from scratch of two authors, + real life). Now I am stuck with DYK, a place I came to avoid as no longer interested in unusual facts about the person (or how else would I understand a hook about a piece not played for a while, which is completely accidental to her life achievements). She gave to human culture, substantially, and I find that interesting. Out for the day. Please, at some point, answer the simple question if, for the uninitiated reader, Carmen would sound more interesting than a general "opera". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:53, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To answer your question personally (I do not know if CurryTime has a different opinion), no: it does not. To the average reader, Carmen is just a name. They might recognize it if they know the Carmen Overture, but even if they do, just the name alone won't make a hook inherently interesting, any more than a hook mentioning Hamlet without additional context. No one (except maybe you) is going to click on a hook saying "Did you know that Jasmine Doe played the role of Carmen in 2025?" They might, however, click on a hook saying "Did you know that Jasmine Doe, a professional tennis player, played the role of Carmen in a 2025 production at the Sydney Opera House?", not because of the name "Carmen", but because of the context behind Doe's performance as Carmen. It is the contrast between her regular career (as a tennis player) and what she did (performing opera) that makes the hook interesting, not the mention of Carmen.

Gerda, at this point, I think you have to understand if not accept that DYK is not about highlighting summaries of people's lives or careers. It's about highlighting an interesting or unusual fact about them that would make readers want to know more about the subject. Again, even if said hook may seem "incidental" to their overall lives, if that is something that would make people want to know more, then that's how DYK works. Gerda, you are DYK's most prolific and experienced contributor, someone respected by editors both within and outside the project. It should be you who would best understand how DYKINT works. It's been a recurring issue with your hooks for years, one that has been brought up by multiple editors (not just myself). Please Gerda, understand where we are coming from. Read CurryTime and 4meter4's comments over the years on how to make a good, interesting hook. It isn't that difficult, especially with your experience in writing articles. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:33, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt Naruto answered your question better than I could have. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:09, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I hope I will remember to stay away from DYK. Life is too short. I wanted to nominate a soprano today but would have to work for hours to find sources that please 4meter4, and then would have to argue with you for more hours to say something about her: no. I don't have the time. It's sad because women are underrepresented. Working on Sofia Gubaidulina was great collaboration. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda, if you don't mind, what do you find so difficult to understand about WP:DYKINT: "The hook should be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest in the topic?" If you're willing to learn and please, we can explain the guideline to you in an easy-to-understand manner. I'm not getting where you're coming from regarding you being unable to say something about a woman, because when writing hooks about a woman, we still write something about them, it's just that it's not necessarily the thing they're best known for. What is the difference for you between "... that Jennifer Doe played Aida at the Oper Frankfurt in 2025?" and "... that operatic soprano Jennifer Doe is part of an esports team?" Both hooks still say something about Doe, so I don't understand what you mean by hooks that aren't about them. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 20:44, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A plain outline of facts, some of which may not be readily understood by all readers, neither makes for an effective DYK hook nor meets the criteria of WP:DYKINT. Whether one agrees or not with the idea of "selling" a DYK subject, the hook is expected to do that, according to the guidelines. They are based on the dictionary definition of the colloquial use of "hook" in this context. It would be different if the guidelines referred instead to DYK "factoids". —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:54, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, maybe an explanation of why mentioning Carmen would not be the best option may be needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:24, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The biggest reason why, aside from the reason I explained elsewhere, is that it overloads the hook. I get why one would want to squeeze in as much info as possible into a hook. Sometimes, I'm guilty of doing that. However, the more concise, the more effective a hook can be. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 19:47, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I'm really confused by Gerda's argument. Oftentimes, she wants to highlight women (or men) playing specific roles because she believes that them playing said roles is unique, but in most cases the subjects aren't even the only people to play said roles, and neither the hooks nor the articles actually describe how such performances were any different from other performances of said role. For example, what would make Alyssa Anderson's performance as Carmen any more unique or special from Brittany Baker's? Even in this discussion, with Gerda's attachment to Iriarte's performance as Carmen, she does not even explain exactly how or why Iriarte's specific performance as Carmen is any more unique from the many women who've played the role over the years (apart from it being her last role, but that's not about her performance itself). I'm genuinely confused by her argument and am willing to learn her side: to her, is the actor playing the role itself what makes the performance special or unique, and not how they played the role? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 20:55, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating: I hope I will remember to stay away from DYK. Life is too short. Working on Sofia Gubaidulina was great collaboration. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:14, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda, we are willing to hear from you and learn your side. We just want to know: why specifically is Carmen so special to you, and why is it that it is Iriarte's performance as Carmen that you want to highlight and not her other roles? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:40, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to mention more than one role ;) - I picked Carmen as from Spain, FA, lead role, well-known, intricate story, choice for farewell, - all more interesting in my book, and more precise about this singer, than some general "opera". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:36, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

March music

Today, 300 years of Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern, BWV 1! - We sang works for (mostly) double choir by Pachelbel, Johann Christoph Bach, Kuhnau/Bach, Gounod and Rheinberger! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:36, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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April music

story · music · places

My story today is about an opera singer born OTD in 1870. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:54, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tout est lumière. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:20, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Today: a woman in red --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:35, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Check out my talk: for a great woman's Johannes-Passion (listen!), our music in detail, and three people who recently died and are on the main page (where she isn't). My call for collaboration has the first "no". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:21, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My story is about music that Bach and Picander gave the world 300 years (and 19 days) ago, - listen (on the conductor's birthday) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:31, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I finally managed to upload the pics I meant for Easter, see places. - Also finally, I managed a FAC, Easter Oratorio, - thanks to you in a way. I wanted that on the main page for Easter Sunday, but no, twice. You are invited to join a discussion about what "On this day" means, day or date. - In the nom, you could approve the pre-picked choice. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Easter Oratorio

We had an edit conflict, and this was my latest version. In a nutshell:

The cantata and the secular model were planned from the start to have the same music. From which follows that the observations about the same metre etc. belong to the cantata (not the oratorio).
The Oratorio was not really different music from the Cantata, just instrumentation - text - no character names.

I will not revert you because instability isn't what we want for GA ambitions, - please check and make changes yourself. I need sleep and will travel over the weekend. Kindly use the Wolf source that I can see. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:14, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wolff says differently. According to him, extant evidence suggests that it was only while composing the Christmas Oratorio that JSB began to think about composing the Easter Oratorio, which then developed into a trilogy. To be honest, I've only heard the Easter Oratorio once, at a live performance about over a decade ago; its predecessor works are totally unknown to me. So please don't think that I'm trying to push a personal point-of-view, because I don't even have one for this work. I also don't want to step on anybody's toes here. The article is really fine otherwise. It's just that when I cracked open the Wolff book, some of what he said happened to be different from what is in the article. Honestly, I didn't want to get deeply involved with this article. My only intent was to contribute something from which a suitable DYK hook could be extracted. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:24, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Leisinger, for the quote you requested, p. VII "The fair copy, one of Bach's most beautiful manuscripts, will be published for the first time in facsimile", and for the rest. Forget DYK. (With an instable article, it will not be GA, and without GA there will not be DYK.) I need sleep. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:34, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, what I intended to be a small patch job for the sake of a DYK nom has now turned into something more extensive. Hopefully, I'll be out of your hair soon. As they say (in Russia), "if the claw is stuck, the whole bird is lost". (-______-) —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:53, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Without having read this: I woke up early, so made changes I saw necessary. Bach's music is my prime importance, not what Wolff and Leisinger say ;) - DYK - if there was one - could say ... that the music of Bach's Easter Oratorio was performed for Easter 1725, seven years before he even thought of oratorios? ... almost 10 years before the Christmas Oratorio was first performed? - I still think that the first clever collaboration would be a better information. Off to travel, by car, so unconnected, with friends, - more important! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify CT, did Gerda's response address your concerns regarding the apparent conflation, or do those concerns remain? Given that it does appear to be a significant issue, that will need to be resolved before any further work on the nomination is done. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:14, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On top of two entries for Roberto among the recent deaths, brainstorming for Easter music is going on in the nom, at the end - ALT0e/f/g/h - if you have little time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:19, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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May music

story · music · places

check my talk today for two pics of Margot Friedländer --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you perhaps help with Vakhtang Machavariani? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

... and/or Georgian Philharmonic Orchestra, 100 years old, and until today no article in English? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

birthday of Erik Satie - can we get his article to GA for his centenary of death? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]