User talk:Aleqc

Welcome!

Hi Aleqc! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:

Learn more about editing

Alternatively, the contributing to Wikipedia page covers the same topics.

If you have any questions, we have a friendly space where experienced editors can help you here:

Get help at the Teahouse

If you are not sure where to help out, you can find a task here:

Volunteer at the Task Center

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date.

Happy editing! JimRenge (talk) 02:34, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

User:Aleqc/sandbox

Welcome, and thank you for contributing to the English Wikipedia. The page that you have created in your sandbox is not in English, it is in Spanish. You may translate it into English, but you may also write this article at the Spanish Wikipedia instead. Thank you. Rusty4321 ^{talk contributions} 23:45, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@Rusty4321 I know that. But my Google settings are in English so the English version is the default option when logging into Wikipedia. I use this sandbox to create articles in Spanish or French. Aleqc (talk) 23:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics

You have recently edited a page related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, a topic designated as contentious. This is a brief introduction to contentious topics and does not imply that there are any issues with your editing.

A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as contentious topics. These are specially designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have special powers in order to reduce disruption to the project.

Within contentious topics, editors should edit carefully and constructively, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and:

• adhere to the purposes of Wikipedia;
• comply with all applicable policies and guidelines;
• follow editorial and behavioural best practice;
• comply with any page restrictions in force within the area of conflict; and
• refrain from gaming the system.

Additionally, you must be logged-in, have 500 edits and an account age of 30 days, and are not allowed to make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on a page within this topic.

Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics procedures you may ask them at the arbitration clerks' noticeboard or you may learn more about this contentious topic here. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{Ctopics/aware}} template.

== Welcome! ==

Hi Aleqc! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

I've noticed that you've expressed an interest in the Arab–Israeli conflict. Unfortunately, due to a history of conflict and disruptive editing it has been designated a contentious topic and is subject to some strict rules.

The rule that affects you most as a new or IP editor is the prohibition on making any edit related to the Arab–Israel conflict unless you are logged into an account and that account is at least 30 days old and has made at least 500 edits.

This prohibition is broadly construed, so it includes edits such as adding the reaction of a public figure concerning the conflict to their article or noting the position of a company or organization as it relates to the conflict.

The exception to this rule is that you may request a specific change to an article on the talk page of that article or at this page. Please ensure that your requested edit complies with our neutral point of view and reliable sourcing policies, and if the edit is about a living person our policies on biographies of living people as well.

Any edits you make contrary to these rules are likely to be reverted, and repeated violations can lead to you being blocked from editing.

As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:

Learn more about editing

Alternatively, the contributing to Wikipedia page covers the same topics.

If you have any questions, we have a friendly space where experienced editors can help you here:

Get help at the Teahouse

If you are not sure where to help out, you can find a task here:

Volunteer at the Task Center

Happy editing! Selfstudier (talk) 21:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

To clarify the above some more, per WP:ARBECR, I reverted your last contribution as you are presently limited to filing edit requests only, the initial edit was an edit request, even if not in the standard form, but the subsequent contribution was not. Selfstudier (talk) 21:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

So. If I want all the references that state 'Mexico recognises the State of Palestine as a full sovereign state' to be removed. Or clarify that there aren't any official sources or documents that support the Mexican recognition of the State of Palestine. I need to ask for that change in the talk page of the article or the 'Current requests for edits to a protected page' section of the 'Wikipedia:Requests for page protection' page you sent. Right? Aleqc (talk) 23:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes but I think someone will anyway do it shortly following our conversation and the references provided there. Selfstudier (talk) 09:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Noted Aleqc (talk) 17:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Chiapas abortion

HI. could you add a ref? thanks. — kwami (talk) 04:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Yup. But not in English.

In which part of the article do you want me to put the reference?

https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/republica/congreso-de-chiapas-despenaliza-el-aborto-12927024.html Aleqc (talk) 04:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks.

I've moved the refs for individual states from the lead to the table so we can see which goes with which. — kwami (talk) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, got it. I can add all the refs needed. But they won't be in English (retrieved from the Spanish version). Aleqc (talk) 04:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The language doesn't matter. People can always pop it into Google Translate. If the source is long, it's helpful to provide a page number.

I'll go ahead and change the map since we list Chiapas in the table. — kwami (talk) 04:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Done. The map needs to be updated with Zacatecas (reformed 5 days ago), State of Mexico (yesterday) and Chiapas (today). But, the laws haven't been published yet. I add them to the table because the local governments can't veto those laws (it's a Supreme Court order the legislative and executive powers must comply). Aleqc (talk) 05:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Done.

So all states are required to legalize due to the SC order? — kwami (talk) 05:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Since Aguascalientes, the legal strategy has changed (it has been pretty messy, and it has been evolving every year). After the 2021 ruling, the states weren't obligated to modify their legislations immediately. The Supreme Court allowed them to do it whenever they want.

But with the Aguascalientes' case, Supreme Court (and other minor federal courts) started analysing collective amparos. And one of the effects of those amparos is the obligation of modifying the unconstitutional laws before the legislative period finishes. Congress and governors can't appeal or veto the ruling. They can't vote against the decriminalisation (something similar happened a decade earlier with same-sex marriage). That was the case with Aguascalientes, Jalisco, San Luis Potosí, Zacatecas, and Chiapas.

Nayarit, Morelos, and Yucatán will do it soon, before January 1st 2025.

In the case of Michoacán, the State of Mexico and Puebla; the amparos were already filed, but the Congress of those states modified their laws before they were analysed (and lectured about their omission).

In Jalisco, representatives had to vote twice the same day because they voted against in a first round (by a tiny minority). So they had to vote again to approve the decriminalisation.

We will see the next year what will happen with Tabasco, Campeche, Tamaulipas, Durango, Sonora, Nuevo León, and Tlaxcala. I don't know if the colectivas and NGOs filed amparos against the Congresses of those states.

As I said, it has been pretty chaotic since 2021. Aleqc (talk) 05:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I'll add Nayarit, Morelos, and Yucatán to the lead; you're welcome to add a ref, of course, but the laws will probably be changed before anyone tags it. — kwami (talk) 06:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I would wait until December. Once the final bill is voted for those 3 states, I'll add the info. Right now, the only stuff we have is a judicial order to harmonize the law before the end of the current legislative period (December 2024). Aleqc (talk) 17:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I can word it that way. It's nice to be able to provide some idea of how things may move forward. — kwami (talk) 18:47, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok. I'll add later today the links I have about the judicial orders for decriminalization on those states.

I also wanted to provide you with the final publication of the reforms at Zacatecas and Chiapas approved by their local executive powers (finally). We are just waiting for the one for the State of Mexico:

https://periodico.zacatecas.gob.mx/visualizar/98abf73f-0598-48c7-9b33-359cba5e13fe;1.2

https://archive.org/details/c-379-27112024-1971 Aleqc (talk) 15:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi again!

Just to finalice this thread, the State of Mexico finally published the reform this Friday: https://legislacion.edomex.gob.mx/sites/legislacion.edomex.gob.mx/files/files/pdf/gct/2024/diciembre/dic062/dic062c.pdf Aleqc (talk) 22:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! — kwami (talk) 22:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

From the WP-es article, it would appear that Morelos and Yucatan have legalized since November. They're at least past due. — kwami (talk) 02:15, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami Morelos announced they shall probably vote this Friday 7 February. December 15 was the limit, but they postponed the date because 'they didn't know how to vote' (it was just a pretext to gain more time as some sources stated the majority for the approval wasn't reached on December). The federal judge has already answered back (ordering again to decriminalise abortion), and the Congress was already fined. They need to vote ASAP or the punishment will be harsher the next time.

https://oem.com.mx/elsoldecuernavaca/local/congreso-de-morelos-bajo-presion-el-viernes-se-discutira-la-despenalizacion-del-aborto-21486945

Yucatan is in a similar situation. But we don't know what is happening there. Some members of that Congress are denouncing the contempt of court.

https://www.yucatan.com.mx/merida/2025/02/01/inicia-periodo-ordinario-del-congreso-de-yucatan-estos-fueron-los-temas-relevantes.html

Nayarit legalised last week, on January 24 (the limit there was also December). The members of that Congress said 'they had too much work to finish before addressing this issue'.

https://oem.com.mx/eloccidental/local/nayarit-despenalizara-el-aborto-a-mas-tardar-este-viernes-21284570

Should the article still mention they need to decriminalise abortion or delete the reference and wait until they do it? Aleqc (talk) 02:35, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

As long as we have you to update the article when things change, then IMO we should include all of that information. I'll add what you provided if you don't mind. Guess I need to revert my change to the map for Yucatan, but I'll wait to see what happens with Morelos this Friday. — kwami (talk) 02:40, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

any news on morelos? — kwami (talk) 03:17, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Nothing. Legislators boycotted the Friday session and the one for today (Tuesday February 11). They were fined and they will face harsher sanctions soon (like removal of their seat). But they might be OK with that. It's a very weird unprecedented situation because no other state has done the same (and the so-called 'left' dominates that Congress by a supermajority). Even Chihuahua (which is a very Conservative state) has said they could start analysing next week former decriminalisation bills to harmonize the Penal Code according to the Supreme Court ruling (it's not needed, but they will do it anyways). Aleqc (talk) 01:01, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

kinda makes me happy that the country I'm in isn't the only one that's screwy — kwami (talk) 01:20, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

do you know if there are still women in detention in states where it's legal? we make that claim, but the ref is a few years old — kwami (talk) 01:33, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami I can't find any source about that. I need to do a deeper research. The figures we have are from 2019 and 2021. They don't differentiate between elective abortion (which is no longer a crime in all Mexico), and forced abortion (which is still a crime, especially when violence was involved).

According to this source, in 2019 there were 88 men and 14 women in detention for the crime of abortion:

https://oem.com.mx/elsoldemexico/mexico/mas-hombres-presos-por-aborto-que-mujeres-16698352

According to this source, in 2021 there were 0 women in detention for the crime of abortion. But around 200 for other 'related crimes' (like 'homicide' or 'cruelty against family members'):

https://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/nacional/2021/09/14/las-victimas-de-la-prohibicion-del-aborto-mas-de-200-mujeres-presas-en-mexico/

According to this source from 2023 made by the Autonomous University of Tabasco, in 2021 there were 2 men in detention for the crime of abortion. They requested the number of women jailed for that crime and the results were (I assume the numbers are from 2023 but the source doesn't mention that):

- Aguascalientes. 1

- Baja California. 0

- Baja California Sur. No response

- Campeche. No response

- Chiapas. 0

- Chihuahua. They requested more time to answer

- México City. 0

- Coahuila. 0

- Colima. 0

- Durango. No response

- Guanajuato. 1

- Guerrero. 0

- Hidalgo. No response

- Jalisco. 0

- State of Mexico. No response

- Michoacán. No response

- Morelos. 0

- Nayarit. 2

- Nuevo León. 0

- Oaxaca. 1

- Puebla. No response

- Querétaro. No response

- Quintana Roo. 0

- San Luis Potosí. 0

- Sinaloa. 0

- Sonora. No response

- Tabasco. 0

- Tamaulipas. 0

- Tlaxcala. 0

- Veracruz. 0

- Yucatán. No response

- Zacatecas. 0

https://catedraunescodh.unam.mx/catedra/papiit/cedaw/pdfs/03_DivAcademicaCS_MujeresEncarceladasAborto_140923.pdf

The Supreme Court ruling in 2021 didn't directly involve those 200 women in jail for those 'related crimes' because it was limited to the criminalisation of abortion. In all cases, these women (mostly indigenous or impoverished) suffered miscarriages or obstetric emergencies, but were falsely accused of 'having killed their offspring'. Most of their trials were full of inconsistencies. Many of the victims didn't even speak Spanish, so they never knew the reason for their incarceration. Many of them were intimidated by the authorities. All this was pretty common before the 2021 ruling. And since the ruling, many public institutions and NGOs are helping these women to be free again. But it has been a case-by-case fight.

It has been a difficult task because some states have a complete mess on their crime statistics.

I don't know if all of them have already been released, but many of them were freed since 2021. Even in states that haven't modified their abortion laws.

The same 'leftist' party that wants to defy that judicial order in Morelos has helped many of these women to be released at the federal level. The last one was in Querétaro (the Esmeralda case in October 2024) where the federal government (under our new female president, Claudia Sheinbaum) pressured the local prosecutor of that state to desist in the criminalisation of a 14 year girl that experienced a miscarriage after being raped. At the end, the charges were dropped and that same 'leftist' party is trying to decriminalise abortion in that state (Querétaro, along with Guanajuato, has the stricter laws in Mexico) Aleqc (talk) 03:49, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

Hey!

Bad news: Morelos is still disregarding the judicial ruling.

Good news: Campeche has decriminalised abortion this morning.

https://www.jornada.com.mx/noticia/2025/02/25/estados/congreso-de-campeche-aprueba-por-mayoria-despenalizacion-del-aborto-342

Durango may be the next. But we will know in the next months if they fulfill their promise or not. It's too early right now.

https://www.milenio.com/estados/en-durango-congreso-va-por-despenalizacion-del-aborto Aleqc (talk) 15:09, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll update the map. — kwami (talk) 19:27, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Morelos is small enough that it's hopefully not too difficult to go elsewhere, and there's easy transport. Assuming you couldn't get it in-state despite the law. Campeche would be more difficult. — kwami (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes. Kind of. I don’t know about the United States, but here in Mexico, decriminalization has been pushed forward based on human rights criteria, especially the constitutional right to health and well-being. The issue of the right to privacy has been one of the least discussed here. The criminalization of abortion mainly affects poor women, and since they have fewer resources, it is more difficult for them to travel to other states or access telemedicine services (which are usually private). It's no longer so much about criminalization, although there have been some highly publicized cases in very conservative states where authorities have unnecessarily tried to stigmatize women by opening investigations and filing complaints.

In fact, it was a good Tuesday because today, the Supreme Court unanimously resolved a contradiction in legal criteria, ruling that federal courts must require state governments to provide, guarantee, promote, and organize voluntary abortion services that are safe, high-quality, accessible, and respectful.

https://www.internet2.scjn.gob.mx/red2/comunicados/comunicado.asp?id=8180

In Morelos, the governor has expressed support for abortion since her campaign. We hope that legislators will come to reason soon. The legislative elections are coming up in 2027, and we hope for a total change since many current legislators come from conservative and religious parties that joined Morena because, here in Mexico, the opposition has been practically wiped out since 2018. Aleqc (talk) 22:38, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

The first is very good news.

Yes, bans primarily affect poor women in the US too. And minors. There are also areas, even whole states, where elective abortion is legal but there are no clinics that provide it. — kwami (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Abortion in Mexico

Hi. I restored Zacatecas, but the dates look backwards. Is is supposed to be 1 December?

And is Nayarit still pending?

Also, for Michoacan and Yucatan, is legality for financial reasons limited to the same 12 weeks? If longer, we should still mention them or that. — kwami (talk) 19:13, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Sorry. I did a big mess.

1. Zacatecas: December 1st 2024 https://periodicooficial.zacatecas.gob.mx/visualizar/98abf73f-0598-48c7-9b33-359cba5e13fe;1.2

2. Nayarit: 27 January 2025 https://periodicooficial.nayarit.gob.mx/descargar_pdf.php?archivo=270125%20(06).pdf

3. Michoacan and Yucatan: the 12 weeks threshold just for abortion without any justification (just because you want to have an abortion, that's it. That's want you call 'on request'). After that limit, you can have a legal abortion but you need a circumstance (the grounds) to do it (rape, miscarriage, risk to health, risk to life, fetal impairment, socioeconomic). It depends on the legislation of each federal entity. So, both in Michoacan and Yucatan you can request to have an abortion after the 12 weeks limit for economic issues (mostly poverty). And in Yucatan the clause of having 3 or more children was removed yesterday. You just need to say that you live under precarious economic conditions. Aleqc (talk) 19:42, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks.

Do Guanajuato and Querétaro really not allow abortion to save a woman's life? — kwami (talk) 20:16, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes. And that's very problematic. And that's another reason why people is fighting to decriminalise abortion there. Because most of the time, decriminalisation also comes with expanding the grounds.

But in some (very few) cases, people in states where some "causales" (grounds) were not included (like risk to health) the Supreme Court has granted an amparo to allow that person to request an abortion. That was the case of Marissa between 2013 and 2019 (health is a protected constitutional right): https://eljuegodelacorte.nexos.com.mx/la-corte-y-el-aborto-terapeutico-un-derecho-de-todas/ Aleqc (talk) 20:23, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Do we have an up-to-date map for causales after the 1st trimester? Given that elective abortion is effectively legal in all states in the 1st trimester, but pregnancy could potentially be allowed to kill you later, that would be worth including. — kwami (talk) 20:41, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm working on that. But I have been waiting to have almost all the states with the on request ground. So the legend could be something like 'on request + rape, on request + risk to health, on request + risk to health + fetal impairement..."

About the health issue of late abortions. That subjects is being discussed right now. Mexico City wants to completely erase all references to voluntary abortion in the local penal code (just the forced abortion will remain as a crime at any stage). So the limits would still remain in the local health law. And it would be complemented with guidelines (as far as I remember only Veracruz, Michoacan and the federal government have them). But the discussion is stalled as Conservative people is using this to spread fake news like 'abortions could be performed until the last day of pregnancy'. As far as I remember, these guides limit some grounds (like socioeconomic or fetal impairment) until the second trimester. And some really exceptional (like health risk, life risk or rape) could be performed on the third trimester. But as I said, this subject is really new. Let me make some research and tell you where you can find this information.

Public hospitals are using the causales system in the penal codes as a 'guideline'. On those states where on request abortion hasn't been decriminalised on the first trimester, public hospitals are rejecting people who wants to have an abortion without any justification. But is technically not longer a crime, so the option there is self-managed on request abortions with misoprostol (and the medical supervision of colectivas and organisations). That's why the next battlefield is erasing all the references in the penal codes to elective abortion. And collective amparos to force those restrictive local governements to perform all kind of abortions in public hospitals even if the ground is not considered in the penal code (that's what people is doing right now in Morelos where the Congress still doesn't want to harmonize the law. That's what happened in Chihuahua last year).

https://www.lajornadamorelos.mx/seguridad-y-justicia/corte-pospone-discusion-sobre-amparo-para-aborto-en-morelos/

https://www.jornada.com.mx/noticia/2024/05/28/estados/secretaria-de-salud-de-chihuahua-debera-ofrecer-servicios-de-aborto-en-hospitales-publicos-5553

And related to your last question. I don't know if someone was criminalised for having an abortion after the legal threshold. The only entity that allowed abortion before this green wave of decriminalisation came to Mexico (in 2021) was Mexico City. But the statics here are very basic and incomplete. We know that the prosecutors in Mexico City still opened inquiries for abortion after the 12 weeks. But we don't know if that people were sent to jail because of that. Some of this inquiries could be opened for forced abortion (which is a crime). But we don't know.

https://oem.com.mx/elsoldemexico/metropoli/abren-mas-carpetas-por-aborto-en-cdmx-21105979

https://emeequis.com/investigaciones/desde-2018-casi-400-carpetas-de-investigacion-por-delito-de-aborto-en-cdmx/

The Supreme Court established that elective abortion at any stage is not longer a crime (the ABSOLUTE criminalisation of elective abortion, means that). Many Local Congresses are still imposing criminalisation after the 12 weeks because they don't want to piss Conservatives. But no judge in this country will sent you to jail because of a late on request abortion. Prosecutors can still investigate you, but it will be a completely lost battle (and time and money wasted instead of using them for real serious crimes). Once the investigation is on the hands of any Mexican judge, they will automatically close the case. Some few local penal codes (I don't know which ones now) will send you to a health facility to guide you with the use of contraceptive methods if you 'broke the law' with a late abortion (instead of jail). And all public hospitals here provide free contraceptive methods. But as I mentioned before, some few prosecutors wanted to use the old reliable 'homicide' cheat for late abortions (they even did that before 2021 because the sanctions were higher). But as far as I remember, any attempt of doing this after 2021 has been unsuccesful (and most people's minds in this country has changed. People in this country no longer support that kind of actions). Actually, many people that was sent to jail unjustly before 2021 because they were criminalised for 'homicide' has been liberated in these years.

https://www.internet2.scjn.gob.mx/red2/comunicados/noticia.asp?id=6579

https://www.cualtos.udg.mx/noticia/jueces-no-pueden-sancionar-penalmente-ninguna-mujer-por-abortar-gracias-decision-de-scjn Aleqc (talk) 22:24, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

I didn't realize it was for any stage. I thought the SC ruling was for 1st trimester and the states were simply following that ruling. I'll change the article, but we're going to want a ref for that. — kwami (talk) 23:04, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

In the last reference I gave you you will find the answer (https://www.internet2.scjn.gob.mx/red2/comunicados/noticia.asp?id=6579). It's the Supreme Court official news gazzette. The Supreme Court said that the total and absolute criminalisation of the abortion is unconstitucional. That could be perceived as ambiguous, but in judicial lingo that means that the Mexican state (as a whole) can't still consider elective abortion as a crime no matter the gestational stage. But it also stipulates that (that part is also included in that reference) the product of gestation deserves protection that increases over time, as the pregnancy progresses. However, it was clarified that such protection cannot disregard the rights of women and pregnant people to reproductive freedom (La Suprema Corte entendió que el producto de la gestación merece una protección que incrementa en el tiempo, a medida que avanza el embarazo. Sin embargo, precisó que esa protección no puede desconocer los derechos de las mujeres y personas gestantes a la libertad reproductiva). That means that pregnant people have the right to choose if they want to continue (or not) with their pregnancy. And the decision to have an abortion is superior to any protection embryos and fetuses could have. If pregnant people want to continue with their pregnancy, the Mexican state needs to garantee the health and wellness of both the pregnant person and their unborn offspring. And actually, the Mexican constitution, in the article 124, stipulates that pregant people has the right to rest every X time, to have access to free medical supervision, etc. So that protection is completely constitutional. But just if they want to have children.

See this other reference (two days adter the 2021 decriminalisation ruling, from the Supreme Court news gazette too): https://www.internet2.scjn.gob.mx/red2/comunicados/noticia.asp?id=6581 Por ello, sostuvo que los principales esfuerzos del Estado para proteger la vida en gestación –como bien constitucionalmente valioso– deberán encaminarse a proteger efectivamente los derechos de las mujeres y de las personas gestantes, por ejemplo, ocupándose en la continuidad de los embarazos deseados; asegurando atención prenatal a todas las personas bajo su jurisdicción, proveyendo partos saludables y abatiendo la mortalidad materna, entre otros aspectos. (Therefore, it affirmed that the State’s primary efforts to protect life in gestation—as a constitutionally recognized valuable interest—must focus on effectively safeguarding the rights of women and pregnant individuals. This includes, for example, supporting the continuation of wanted pregnancies, ensuring prenatal care for all under its jurisdiction, guaranteeing safe deliveries, and reducing maternal mortality, among other measures).

The 12 week limit is important as a medical guideline, not as a criminal punishment.

See this, from the Nexos magazine (many experts from different fields usually write articles for this magazine. In this case is from GIRE, the most importat abortion NGO in Mexico and Latin America): https://eljuegodelacorte.nexos.com.mx/aborto-y-justicia-reproductiva-a-pasos-agigantados/

There is a section in Spanish that mentions that El juez que conoció del caso de Pilar, a partir de lo resuelto por la Suprema Corte de Justicia, declaró la inconstitucionalidad del tipo penal de aborto en Aguascalientes por criminalizar en todo momento el aborto y, de esa manera, violar los derechos humanos señalados en la demanda. En este sentido, se concedió el amparo para efecto de desincorporar de la esfera jurídica de Pilar el artículo 101 del Código Penal y se ordenó a la Fiscalía estatal que emita la resolución correspondiente, ya sea de abstenerse de investigar o de no ejercer de la acción penal. Es decir, la sentencia reiteró, en línea con lo establecido por el pleno de la Corte de forma unánime, que la criminalización absoluta del aborto es inconstitucional, además de establecer que el proceso penal en contra de Pilar debe eliminarse (The judge overseeing Pilar’s case, based on the ruling by the Supreme Court of Justice, declared the criminalization of abortion in Aguascalientes unconstitutional for penalizing abortion at all stages, thereby violating the human rights outlined in the lawsuit. As a result, the court granted an amparo to remove Article 101 of the Penal Code from Pilar’s legal sphere and ordered the State Prosecutor’s Office to issue the corresponding resolution—either refraining from investigating or declining to pursue criminal charges. In other words, the ruling reaffirmed—in line with the Supreme Court’s unanimous decision—that the absolute criminalization of abortion is unconstitutional. It further established that the criminal proceedings against Pilar must be dismissed).

That was one of the many cases that led to the decriminalisation of abortion (by Supreme Court ruling) in Aguascalientes in 2023.

And that's why Mexico City wants to erase all references to elective abortion in the local penal code.

The problem lies within legislators. Many of them still think this country is the same as 30 years ago (with a large Conservative majority). So they are just decriminalising on request abortion until the 12 week (legal elective abortion has always been decriminalised after that threshold but under certain circumstances). The 12 week threshold was decided in 2007 when Mexico City decriminalised abortion. Many experts back then said that after that time, abortion could be dangerous. We know now that's not true at all. And it can be really dangerous after the 24 week.

And about that, the Supreme Court will decide soon if the 12 weeks needs to be the bare minimum for abortion without justification. Aguascalientes reduced last year the threshold from 12 to 6, but the Mexican government, the Federal Comission for Human Rights and any colectivas filed an 'action of unconstitutionality' to reverse to 12 weeks again. And the Supreme Court is already working on it.

https://animalpolitico.com/estados/penalizacion-aborto-sexta-semana-aguascalientes-feministas

The issue is the stigma. The unnecesary criminalisation of on request abortion after the 12 week is just stigma. 'Social criminalisation' as we call it in Spanish. On the previous reference from Animal Politico it mentions that: Estas acciones lo que buscan es limitar y frenar el tema del aborto, y nos queda claro que esto también es una medida política, porque justamente a un año de que se logra esta decisión de la Corte de decirle al Congreso ‘tienes que despenalizar’, a partir de ahí hubo un incremento en los discursos de los grupos antiderechos(These actions are clearly aimed at restricting and rolling back abortion rights. It’s evident that this is also a political maneuver—especially since, just one year after the Court’s landmark decision ordering Congress to decriminalize abortion, we saw a surge in rhetoric from anti-rights groups).

They won't sent you to jail, but they still want people to think that you are doing something 'illegal'. It's just pure stigma. Aleqc (talk) 00:09, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I finally this one, from a private abortion provider in Mexico City: https://telefem.org/5-dudas-sobre-despenalizacion-y-legalizacion-aborto/

¿Que el aborto sea legal significa que ya no es un delito?

Sí y no. Te explico: En los Estados donde el aborto está despenalizado, hay un límite gestacional, osea un número de semanas de embarazo límite para abortar, lo que implica que si una mujer decide realizarse un aborto después de este límite de tiempo está cometiendo un delito.

Para entenderlo mejor, usemos de ejemplo a la CDMX, donde el aborto está despenalizado hasta las 12 semanas y además es legal. Según el artículo 144 del Código Penal define el aborto como delito si se lleva a cabo después de las 12 semanas de gestación y en el artículo 145 se establecen penas de tres a seis meses de prisión o de 100 a 300 días de trabajo comunitario a quienes voluntariamente practiquen un aborto o consientan que una tercera persona se los realice después del tiempo límite establecido.

Se consideran exclusiones de responsabilidad penal los casos en los que el embarazo sea resultado de una violación, cuando la persona embarazada corre peligro de afectación grave a su salud y cuando exista razón suficiente para diagnosticar que el feto presenta alteraciones genéticas o congénitas.2

El tiempo gestacional y las causales de exclusión de responsabilidad penal son diferentes en cada Estado, por lo que es necesario mirar el marco legal de cada uno.

¿O sea que aún me pueden encarcelar por abortar?

No. A nivel federal no puedes ir a la cárcel por el delito de aborto ya que en 2021 la Suprema Corte de Justicia de la Nación declaró que es inconstitucional criminalizar el aborto de manera absoluta, y se pronunció por primera vez a favor de garantizar el derecho de las mujeres y personas gestantes a decidir, sin enfrentar consecuencias penales. Esto obliga a los jueces estatales y federales a no continuar con un proceso penal.3

Es importante mencionar que a pesar de que no se puede ir a la cárcel por abortar, algunos estados pueden iniciar un proceso por otros delitos como el homicidio.

Is Legal Abortion No Longer a Crime?

Yes and no. Here’s the breakdown:

In states where abortion is decriminalized, there is usually a gestational limit—a set number of weeks into pregnancy beyond which abortion is considered a crime. This means that if someone chooses to have an abortion after this legal cutoff, they could technically be committing a criminal offense.

Example: Mexico City

In Mexico City, abortion is legal and decriminalized up to 12 weeks of pregnancy. However:

Article 144 of the Penal Code defines abortion as a crime if performed after 12 weeks.

Article 145 establishes penalties of 3 to 6 months in prison or 100 to 300 days of community service for those who voluntarily undergo or assist in an abortion after this limit.

Exceptions Where Abortion Is Never a Crime

Even after the gestational limit, abortion remains legal in cases involving:

Rape

Risk to the pregnant person’s health/life

Severe fetal genetic or congenital abnormalities

These exceptions vary by state, so it’s important to check local laws.

"So Can I Still Be Jailed for Abortion?"

No—at least not under federal law.

In 2021, Mexico’s Supreme Court ruled that absolutely criminalizing abortion is unconstitutional and affirmed the right of women and pregnant people to choose without facing criminal penalties. This means:

Judges (state and federal) must dismiss abortion-related prosecutions.

You cannot be imprisoned under federal law for having an abortion.

However, some states may still try to prosecute under other charges (e.g., homicide), though these cases often face legal challenges. Aleqc (talk) 00:11, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

This may just be a difference in judicial culture, but I expect we might eventually need a ref for your reading of the law. A plain reading of the English equivalent of an absolute ban being illegal would be that a non-absolute ban could be legal. E.g. that a ban after 12 weeks could be constitutional. It seems so obviously to mean that to me, that I suspect others with an English Common-law background may object that your reading is wrong, and eventually we'll need a legal analysis that spells it out explicitly. So I think it might be a good idea to keep your eyes open, and if you come across such an analysis, to preemptively add it as a ref. — kwami (talk) 00:25, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but I think it might be simpler if we kept elective abortion separate from abortion for legal grounds. The map would be simpler, and in a few years elective abortion will hopefully be legal in all states and so will be irrelevant for the map anyway. We could have two maps, and retire the elective map when the entire country is pink. Unless states start differing in how long they allow elective abortion, in which case the situation will certainly be too complicated for a single map. — kwami (talk) 23:19, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

It's pretty difficult because the Mexican political system.

Row v Wade ment an automatic legalization of abortion accross the USA. But here in Mexico, the judicial power can't invade the independence of the other 2 power, unless it's an urgent matter (like assuring the constitutional protection of the Human Rights of all the citizens and non-citizens in the country). The 2021 SC ruling was a message to the judicial power. To judges: you can't send people to jail anymore, under any circumstance (that includes gestational stages), when an elective abortion is performed (that includes doctors, nurses, etc).

But prosecutors here in Mexico are part of the executive branch. And they will do their job until the law is properly modified. And their job is doing criminal inquiries. So, if they law is terribly redacted (as many of our Mexican laws), we have our independent judicial power to give us relief. In the case of elective abortion, the law still stipulates abortion is a crime after the 12 weeks, but the supreme judicial institution of this country has ruled it is not.

And that's a 19th century tradition when many abuses were committed in Mexico as Conservative and Liberals fought for power. That's how amparo was born (which is rougly translated as 'injuction', but it is quite different). Aleqc (talk) 00:49, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I wonder if the women in prison for abortion are for cases after the 1st trimester. — kwami (talk) 20:46, 10 April 2025 (UTC)