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We currrently have fields for Coat of Arms and Crest that fill the main image of the infobox. However, we also use logos, badges, and buildings as the main photo if a crest/coat of arms is lacking. I suggest adding a varients for Logo and Other OR just Other. This would be more accurate and would make it easier to identify articles that have a badge or house photo but still need a crest/coat of arms. Right now, I am going through the list manually but in future would like to use something like Access to compare the monthly report's list against our Watchlist. Or the techologically brilliant ones may know a way to do with within Wikipedia. Either way, we cannot easily identify articles lacking a coat of arms/crest when another type of photo is using that field. Thoughts? Rublamb (talk) 15:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rublamb So "Another ID picture" field that would still fill in the main image, but would be different so we know when we need, right?Naraht (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. That way, we could see that a crest or coat of arms was still needed when the photo is of a badge or chapter house. Rublamb (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Standardization of Type

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Pulling back out of archives since no one replied....

This is not intended to be nearly as strict as Status. I just thought I'd take a few well known examples and see if we can standardize on what should be in the field, I'm presuming two things 1) that unless something is *really* different, all get *some* sort of wikilink and 2) In all cases only the first word of a description is capitalized:

  • Phi Beta Kappa - Suggestion: [[Honor society]], other possibilities [[Honor society|Honor]], [[[[Honor society|Honorary]]
  • Alpha Tau Omega - Suggestion: [[List of social fraternities and sororities|Social]] here it is less of a question of what is displayed than what is linked. There really isn't a page directly on the topic
  • Alpha Kappa Psi - Suggestion: [[Professional fraternities and sororities|Professional]]
  • Korporatsioon Vironia - Suggestion: [[Studentenverbindung]] (Studentenverbindungen is plural, and we use singular for everything else)
  • Alpha Phi Omega - Suggestion:[[Service fraternities and sororities|Service]]
  • Book and Snake - Suggestion:Senior [[secret society]]
  • Order of Angell - Suggestion: Senior [[honor society]]
  • Euphemian Literary Society - Suggestion: [[Literary society|Literary]]
  • Order of Gimghoul - Suggestion:Not sure if it should be [[Secret society|Secret]] or [[Secret society]]

Naraht (talk) 13:59, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Standardizing makes sense to me. I think we are all over the place with regards to linking. I have a couple of suggestions.
Rublamb (talk) 19:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just noting that we could (if desired) hard-code specific results for Type similar to how we do it for Affiliation. It would require going through and replacing all extant uses with a new "code" but it would standardise things. I know you said we don't necessarily need to be as strict as Status with this but I thought I'd throw it out there. Primefac (talk) 13:29, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I am willing to help if we want to go that way. Rublamb (talk) 13:31, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

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Overall

  • No limits here, we allow for groups that don't fit the hard coded choices.
  • Do we allow for multiples? I'd *really* (six more level of bolding here) like to *not* allow the NPHCs to be both Social and Service, that seems to knock out the entire discussion of Emphasis.
  • "or" below indicates different choices, not one long string to be transformed.
  • I know there are going to be some that don't fit (mostly non-collegiate or European)
  • How do we handle the Philippines, Do professional or social need to be pointed in a different direction? And General (in some ways) might be better as a description for both Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) and Tau Gamma Sigma, but I'm just fine leaving the Philippine groups alone for now.

Specific

  • Social fraternity -> [[List of social fraternities|Social]]
  • Social sorority or Social women's fraternity-> [[List of social sororities and women's fraternities|Social]]
  • Service -> [[Service fraternities and sororities|Service]]
  • Professional -> [[Professional fraternities and sororities|Professional]]
  • Studentenverbindung -> [[Studentenverbindung]]
  • Honor or Honor society -> [[Honor Society|Honor]] (that these are groups whose membership is known while students)
  • Secret or Secret society -> [[Collegiate secret societies in North America|Secret]] (reveled at graduation or after)
  • Literary or Literary society -> [[College literary societies|Literary]]
  • Fraternal Order -> [[Fraternal order]] (used for groups primarily non-collegiate in operation, like Orange Order)

I'm not sure Senior as a descriptor in the information box. Naraht (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be helpful to specify how to address final societies and senior societies. Do these fall under honor society (if they are not a secret society)? That seems right to me, although we have not listed this in our honor society list article. I have put "senior" in the emphasis field before. I am not sure if that makes sense but it is where we put other membership foci, such as race, culture, and religion.
Since most of the links above are to articles that included a list of groups, would it be better to link fraternal orders to List of general fraternities? This list also includes non-collegiate service societies such as B'nai B'rith, so it picks up another oddball group type. I would also like to explore whether we should use "fraternal order" or "general fraternity" in the Infobox. I am conflicted: we use general within the WP and our watchlist. However, fraternal order might be more common externally.
Glad you mentioned that non-collegiate GLOs don't fit well because I thought about them when looking at the above list. Not done yet because there is an existing redirect that needs to be deleted, but we agreed to change Fraternities and sororities to College fraternities and sororities a while back. That would make it clear that Fraternity is the article that covers non-collegiate groups and also pave the way for a new (list) article on Non-collegiate fraternities and sororities. Currently, our list articles for professional, social, and service GLOs (along with African American, Asian, and Latino) are not limited to collegiate but could be. If everyone likes the idea of a new list article for non-collegiate GLOs, organized by type (social, service, professional, etc.), I will gladly work on it. That would give us the option we need for this Infobox type project. Rublamb (talk) 18:36, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little bit lost on the difference between final societies and senior societies. Does one of them cover (picking 15 as an example) "has 15 seniors at any given time and at graduation, the pick 15 juniors to replace them?"
Some of this can be covered by Emphasis, but B'nai B'rith and Alpha Epsilon Pi should *not* be viewed as the same type, even if both emphasize Judaism. This does bring back the concept of a "level" parameter: Middle School, High School, two-year colleges, four-year colleges, graduate and non-educational.
And I'm *just* fine if there are pieces left to solve later. this will handle about 80%, I think. Naraht (talk) 19:38, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For our purposes, final and senior societies are the same--and would be either honor or secret societies. Technically, senior societies only include seniors who are selected at the end of their junior year, whereas final societies might include juniors and seniors. But functionally, these are the same type of organization. Rublamb (talk) 19:42, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am fine with starting with this and fixing outliers later. Rublamb (talk) 19:50, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Implemented in Sandbox

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I've implemented the following for type in the Template:Infobox fraternity/sandbox (you can test by changing the use to {{Infobox fraternity/sandbox}} instead of {{Infobox fraternity}}


  • The variable is lower cased for the test so the variable doesn't matter. I went with a few extra options beyond what we discussed. We certainly can pull back. Preferred, I guess is the first in the list.
  • Not sure what we do with Social co-ed groups (there are a few). And for some of the neologism names (Frarority, Diurnity(?), we can just do by hand.).
  • If this is OK, I'll copy from the sandbox and start standardizing.Naraht (talk) 05:02, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Primefac does the code look good?Naraht (talk) 17:59, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Code looks fine. Primefac (talk) 18:09, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am not worried about coed groups as these all seem to fall under fraternity. Rublamb (talk) 19:23, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Implemented

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I'll update the doc when I have a chance.

Preferred for Service and Professional

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What is the preferred text for these. Simply Service and Professional respectively or should we indicate fraternity or sorority if that applies?Naraht (talk) 15:56, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

German Student Corps

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Some of the Studentenverbindung are of an older type: German Student Corps. As far as I can tell from the article, all German Student Corps are Studentenverbindung, but not the other way around. Do we want to separate them and have another entry for German Student Corps?

Umbrella

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I'd like to add

  • Umbrella -> [[List of Greek umbrella organizations]]

name_translation?

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Given at least two of the entries in Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with non-matching name, Cartellverband and Schweizerischer Studentenverein are situations where the article name is the German and the infobox name involves an english translation, I'd like to propose this and have the non-matching name cat only occur if neither match. I'm not sure whether this name is the best as I could see the possibility of someone adding name_translation of "Love of learning is the guide of life" to Phi Beta Kappa... Naraht (talk) 18:13, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the remaining non-matching names are language issues. I have avoided making changes (pending more discussion of whether we should use the translated or foreign language name for these articles) but if you have a solution, I am fine with that. I am in favor of using a free field for a "Translated name" of the group, as appropriate. We should removed any "tagline" details found in the infobox names, as this falls under promotional content and can be included in other fields if it is an official motto or slogan. Rublamb (talk) 19:49, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not expecting the translation for Phi Beta Kappa, just using it as an example. And I'm not sure for either that there are that many english sources...Naraht (talk) 15:40, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Status of non-matching

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Right now Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with non-matching name has eightsix entries

(I just changed Tri-M , now matches)Naraht (talk) 15:41, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I added an lc: qualifier into the check which should eliminate the casing issues in the names. Primefac (talk) 17:03, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
thanks, I see that fixed aKDPhi, wasn't expecting the fix to Commons club, not sure which the article and infobox should be under: Commons Club or Commons club.
Commons club is a known content problem. There was a type of organization called a commons club (lowercase), with each club having a different name. This appears to be what this article was originally about. There was also an organization of this ilk named Commons Club that combined several clubs. The article's infobox is about the Commons Club, resulting in its non-matching status. One solution would be to change or remove the infobox, letting this article go back to being a general overview of commons clubs. The other would be to split the text into two articles. Rublamb (talk) 19:22, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Add CIPR?

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I'd like to add to the affiliation abbreviations: CIPR to [[Concilio Interfraternitario de Puerto Rico|CIPR]].Naraht (talk) 18:24, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done.Naraht (talk) 13:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Standardization of type - next steps.

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Rublamb, Jax MN: After changing about 3/4 (guess) of the infoboxes, the larger remaining questions are:

  1. ) "Cultural" types. I'm guessing most if not all should be listed as social which cultural moved to emphasis if it isn't already.
  2. ) German Student Corps. According to Studentenverbindung, German Student Corps are one of at least five types of Studentenverbindung. I'd be fine with having them have their own type affiliation entry, possibly with the other types: Burschenschaften, Landsmannschaften, Turnerschaften, and Cartellverband (Catholic fraternities) also getting a type. (in fact the Cartellverband should probably have one now.
  3. ) What do we do with the ones that claim multiple types: Social and Professional or Professional and Honorary. Do we pick one and if so how (I'm still *badly* burned by the NPHC Social/Service claims)
  4. ) Finals clubs. I'm fine with making them a type, directing them to Harvard College social clubs.
  5. ) Is there an overwhelming reason to use a lower case for a field that is going to get overwritten by this autofill? For example an edit taking Social Fraternity to Social fraternity? Everything is lowercased before the compare.
  6. ) Philippines - Professionals (like Legal) can go with the same type as US (though the link might be different). However the "General" groupings (like Alpha Phi Omega and Tau Gamma Phi might have to be something different (I used General in quotes, but that actually might not be bad as a term) Naraht (talk) 14:19, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I really appreciate your work on this. Big project!
1) That makes sense
2) By type is probably correct. I have avoided trying to sort through it for some time--those German word are so long. We could also use the same Type for all and put the "correct" term in the Emphasis field. I note that some have "fencing" or "Catholic" in this field already.
3) One type will work in most cases. I find that claims service as a secondary type can usually be dropped (as all social GLOs do some service, so to emphasize this is akin to marketing). After investigating this a while back, professional fraternities by definition are social groups of students with the same academic focus, meaning that adding social is redundant. The use of honorary should be limited to groups on our list at Honor society that select members based on academics, leadership, or campus activities. If a group is professional/honorary and has the entry requirements of an honor society, it would be an honor society with an emphasis. If it lacks honor-type entry requirements, it would be a professional fraternity. There are a few oddballs that are one type but belong to another type of umbrella. We may have to concede that a couple do have two types.
4) That is fine with me.
5) If this is going to be fixed by autofill, I would not worry about it. I have been fixing these when I find them and would be happy to leave this to autofill
6) You are the expert on these groups, so I trust your instincts. I would have thought that APO would still be considered a service fraternity. In the WP's watchlist lexicon, "general" refers to non-collegiate groups, so you might want to rethink terminology. Rublamb (talk) 16:17, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
1) Yeah, most NALFO groups are adapting things from the NPHC, so they've gone pretty heavy into the "Social"
2) I'll create German Service Corps and Cartellverband as well, I figure if we don't know, they stay at Studentenverbindung.
3) I've got a pretty strict view on Service. the four at the front of the Recognition section in Bairds, (APO, GSS, IK, Spurs), and add OPA (very similar to GSS) and a few more. (to the point where I'd want someone else checking myself before I *really* go at with someone over this.) I'll put together a list of the multiple type ones when I get farther along.
4) Will do when I can.
5) OK
6) *Really* difficult to separate in the Philippines, And I agree General is used at List of fraternities and sororities in the Philippines for the non-collegiate. How about either traditional or traditional-PH?

Naraht (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My commentary would be supportive with your consensus, and I'll therefore not rehash each one. I'd note my opinion that "type" should be the primary function, with anything else relegated to "emphasis" -- cultural (which one?), for example. Naraht, noting our efforts to require one or the other from the NPHC groups, that is, are they "Social" -or- "Service", they are, clearly Social as their primary type. While they do perform service to their communities, this isn't their reason for being, like it is with APO or Spurs (some campuses, admittedly, may diverge from this. I'm classifying nationally.) As to the German groups, I will check back with my new friend about this, but I currently think that Studentenverbindung is the broader type, with those other terms properly set in the Emphasis field. He is, of course, biased, but I think accurate. He said that the Academic fencing fraternities, in Germany called the Mensur fencing groups, are at the top of the informal hierarchy among these types. We may want to add Mensur fencing as an emphasis option. I'd also read confirming statements as to this, in various commentary among our many references. Jax MN (talk) 23:23, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm actually thinking Studentenverbindung covers almost as wide a range as "Fraternity" in the US, with some of the Mercur Fencing being at the same level as "Professional" and some organizations that bring multiple campuses together being at the level of the PFA. Nothing is exact, but I think the groups that have student chapters in a *large* number of campuses should be used in affiliation.Naraht (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Using Studentenverbindung with the specific variety in the emphasis field would certainly would be the easiest approach and matches what we have been already doing. However, how we deal with the relationship between organizations still needs some thought. Based on the info we recently received from a German member of one of these, each campus is a chapter of a main fraternity (what we have been incorrectly calling an umbrella group). Note that each chapter (campus group) uses the same colors and motto of the main fraternity and also have an identical naming pattern (just not Greek letters).
I am fine using the affiliation field to link the various chapters to the main organization. However, it would probably not be correct to call the main organization an "umbrella" for its type. No articles in English Wikipedia yet, but there is at least one true European umbrellas association that links the main organizations of the same ilk; I found mentions of gatherings in several places. But nothing on the scope of American umbrellas, probably because there are not as many fraternity groups. Rublamb (talk) 23:32, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, in terms of the Philippines and type: Professional-PR for everything in Category:Professional_fraternities_and_sororities_in_the_Philippines and Traditional-PR for everything in Category:Fraternities and sororities in the Philippines that isn't Professional-PR. We'll probably just point them to the appropriate sections of List of fraternities and sororities in the Philippines.Naraht (talk) 23:10, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Missed this earlier. Perfect. Rublamb (talk) 17:50, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]


studentenverbindung , types and affiliations

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Proposal based on Studentenverbindung#Common_types

  • Keep Studentenverbindung as a fallback type

Make everything that has an article in the right hand column of the table an affiliation (with making all of these "Umbrellas" in their own infobox):

Implementing.Naraht (talk) 10:48, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Philippines

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Copying from above to make it its own section...

Also, in terms of the Philippines and type: Professional-PR for everything in Category:Professional_fraternities_and_sororities_in_the_Philippines and Traditional-PR for everything in Category:Fraternities and sororities in the Philippines that isn't Professional-PR. We'll probably just point them to the appropriate sections of List of fraternities and sororities in the Philippines.Naraht (talk) 23:10, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ImplementingNaraht (talk) 13:08, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Debate and Literary

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A number of groups describe themselves that way, but I think if it is in Template:College Literary Societies changing to literary with Debate as an emphasis may work.Naraht (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure. Although mixed historically, today these are pretty split into just debating societies and just literary. Let me dig into this and report back. Rublamb (talk) 13:51, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Naraht: that should work for everything on our watchlist under the literary societies section except the National Speech and Debate Association, high school group that started as the honor society National Forensic League. Rublamb (talk) 21:03, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Implemented.Naraht (talk) 13:05, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Status as of 3/14 10:50

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About 80 left. I've implemented everything above with the two types for the Philippines, moving everything in the literary template to literary (that didn't already have something) Status can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2Ftype+*%3D+*%2F+estonia+insource%3A%2Fnfobox+%5BFf%5Drat%2F+-insource%3A%2Ftype+*%3D+*%28Social+%5BFf%5Draternity%7CProfessional-PH%7CTraditional-PHBacchanalian+fraternity%7CSocial+%5BSs%5Dorority%7CSocial+%5BWw%5Domen%27s+%5BFf%5Draternity%7CService%7CProfessional%7CLiterary%7CHonor+%5BSs%5Dociety%7CHonor%7CUmbrella%7CLiterary%7CFinal+%5BCc%5Dlub%7CStudentenverbindung%7CFraternal+%5BOo%5Drder%7CGeneral+%5BFf%5Draternity%7CSecret+%5BSs%5Dociety%7CGerman+Student+Corps%29%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 though that is removing what is autofilled by hand, so it won't change if I add a type. Current remaining larger groups.

Totally forgot about working on List of fraternities and sororities in Estonia. It has sections for corporations and societies so you can use List of fraternities and sororities in Estonia#Corporation and List of fraternities and sororities in Estonia#Societies, depending Wonder if we should change the name of that article to "Estonia student corporations and societies" so that it would be more accurate and a better match to our needs? Rublamb (talk) 17:56, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
File with adding Estonia Student Societies and directing to a different part of the articles.
Since we have articles for Christian fraternities, Christian sororities, and Jewish fraternities and sororities, it makes sense to have Christian and Jewish as a type. That being said, all of the religious GLOs are covered under Cultural interest fraternities and sororities. Maybe we should use Type: Cultural with a link in Emphasis to the correct list. Maybe limiting options is the easiest way to handle all of these. Rublamb (talk) 18:28, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think the religious ones are the only ones that are outside the traditional Fraternity structure, Alpha Phi Alpha certainly doesn't belong with Cultural. Religious goes to Cultural and Emphasis goes to the same article with a section? Or just find articles/anchors for Xtian F, Xtian S, Jewish F, Jewish S and have four types? (not sure if any of the Jewish ones outside the Collegiate fraternal system are sororities.Naraht (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I was leaning toward linking to Xtian F, Xtian S, Jewish F/S but that doesn't work for the handful of Muslim and Buhdist groups. I only suggested using the Cultural Interest article as a way to have one solution for all religious groups but that is not essential. I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole here, but most Christian or Jewish GLOs are either service or social organizations (or professional if for former missionaries) with Christian or Jewish members--suggesting that their treatment should be similar to the African American fraternities and sororities. That is, identifying their key function (social, service, professional, honorary) and including the religious component in the Emphasis field.
With that in mind, maybe we should limit North American collegiate fraternity/sorority types to social, service, professional, or honor, adding the cultural, racial, or profession to the Emphasis field with an autolink. Of course, we would still have senior society, final club, literary society, and student society as options.
For the Jewish groups that are not fraternities or sororities, if they are for high school or college students we can link to Student societies. But we can also try to figure out if these actually should be under WP:FRAT's umbrella or if they should have an Infobox Organization instead. If you want, we can discuss each one (and the debating society) either on the article's Talkpage or at the WP Talkpage. Rublamb (talk) 23:22, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]


  • Nigeria - tempted to through all of them to General Fraternity
Don't. There are a couple that are trying to be traditional college fraternities; that might be a move for the future. However, most of these are akin to PH fraternities with an added component of traditional religious ceremonies and international crime rings. The religious aspect is not a fraternity ceremony but a core belief and function, which is why they have been identified a confraternities. And, there are already articles to link to. Rublamb (talk) 18:28, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Done, to a specific for the Nigerian ConfraternitiesNaraht (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Recognition Groups - Even though most groups "upgrade" themselves to Honorary, some *very* much do not. Some of the Drama groups don't require majoring in anything and a good number of the Military groups.
I am leaning toward Military as a type. Either that or Professional, with a Military emphasis. Although the latter is a harder fit for the American drilling groups. I agree that GLO "honors" with zero or little academic requirements should not use Type: Honor society. (Just found one the other day with the only requirement of a 2.5 GPA. Talk about lowered expectations!). So, for these recognition societies, what about using the general "Student society" with the appropriate emphasis? Since so many (most) of the non-military recognition societies fail to meet notability, I am not inclined to work on a Recognition Society article. But I am willing to beef up Student society#United States to include these. Rublamb (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm good with Student Society and a Military Emphasis.
  • "and" groups. If Social was one of the "And"s, then I've set the type to that and moved the rest into emphasis. But a lot of "Honorary and Professional" or "Professional and Service".
Social and: that makes sense to me. However, does that match the GLOs location in our list articles? We may need to undertake some cleanup. Honorary and Professional: Professional is the best fit here, unless there is a GPA to join. Basically, it is an "honor" to be invited to join, right? Professional and service: since most GLOs conduct service activities, I tend to think professional is correct. However, I know of some non-collegiate groups of this ilk whose members are "professionals" who come together to perform community service. Those are service groups OR general fraternities. Again, a cleanup of how we list these may be needed. Rublamb (talk) 18:38, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think what may make the most sense is to work on everything except the 'and's and do them one by one as the last steps. :(Naraht (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • General Fraternity, I may be tossing too many there, Freemasons, Elks and various Fraternal Benefit Societies *maybe* should be separated and is there anywhere to link that one?
Yes, there is an article for Benefit society and also List of friendly and benefit societies and this should be a type. We also have List of general fraternities which, after some work, is a good reflection of the difference between the two. The advantage of linking to List of general fraternities over Fraternity or Fraternal order is that it covers both fraternal orders and general fraternities, so you don't have to figure out which is which. Rublamb (talk) 18:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
After the benefit groups move out, I think the remainder probably work well. I'll add Benefit.Naraht (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Benefit society added, links to Benefit society.Naraht (talk) 13:18, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Honor Societies that are local/non-major specific. Some are quite old and don't fit the modern concept of GPA based honoraries. Often these are "Senior Honor Societies".
Senior Society seems to cover a good number of them.Naraht (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some issues have just been moved to Emphasis, so that one will be the next to analyze. Naraht (talk) 15:32, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Studentenverein vs. Studentenverbindung

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Jax MN, Rublamb Does someone have information on how Studentenverein and Studentenverbindung are different? We may have to tweek which groups are type Studentenverbindung. Naraht (talk) 08:35, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned somewhere before, not all European groups are studentenverbindung. I have not quite figured out all of the variations, but studentenverein translates as "student association" or "student society", while studentenverbindung translates as "fraternity". I think most of the societies are coed, but they can also be male-only like the studentenverbindung, especially the older Catholic groups. Another difference is that studentenverein are based outside of Germany in places like Sweden, Belgium, Norway, and Switzerland. English Wikipedia articles should probably focus on the umbrella, rather than individual chapters. Note that the one article we have on a chapter, Katholischer Studentenverein Arminia, has no sources. Rublamb (talk) 14:03, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We have four Studentenverein groups
and one umbrella

Naraht (talk) 16:01, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case there is anything to add or adjust, I just now forwarded a request for clarification to my acquaintance who was president of a fencing fraternity in Germany. I will update when he answers me. Jax MN (talk) 18:20, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Remaining Groups.

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As far as I can tell, there are 85-ish groups that don't fit yet split sort of by Continent and type (for those within North America.)

Africa

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(Probably should put as type Nigerian Confraternities linked to either Confraternities in Nigeria or List of confraternities in Nigeria)  Done

Asia

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  • Guardians Brotherhood - looking at this website this is a professional fraternity with a military emphasis, so your Profession PH will work.

Europe

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We may need to bring over the article on Student corporations (Studentu korporācijas) to cover some of these; otherwise, I would use social fraternity

North American Non-Collegiate

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Includes secondary

North America collegiate - Local

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(often Senior honorary and open, not honorary like Phi Beta Kappa)

Doesn't look like traditional rush and hasn't moved into the fraternity sphere to the degree that Delta Upsilon did. I'd be willing to leave this outside the main categories.
Duke is complicated. Remember when a bunch of frats disaffiliated rather than adhere to its new rush policies in 2021? Wayne Manor started as an independent living group (a proto or quasi-fraternity living on its own floor of a dorm), was forced by Duke to the selective-living model where two-thirds of its members had to be selected by lottery, and now is off-campus in its own house and outside of Duke's control. If in doubt, call it a Student society. Rublamb (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

North America Collegiate - Regional/National

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(often either dual purpose or religious or recognition or wtf)

Naraht (talk) 02:27, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

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Jax MN, Rublamb any ideas on either new types or moves to a specific type for any of these?Naraht (talk) 13:20, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am slowly working through the list, adding my thoughts. Senior Society is a type for sure. (We might need to clear up Honor society#Local collegiate honor societies) vs a senor society, as just having the name "honor" doesn't make it so.). I can quickly make an article for List of senior societies to link to.
Harvard's social club are a sticking point. I am going to think about it some more and see what other institutions also have social clubs. See below regarding Final Clubs. Rublamb (talk) 14:57, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You've assigned these correctly, I think. Regarding the Harvard, Yale societies, where some are named Final Clubs (Finals Clubs?) and some are Senior Societies. I don't think there is a real distinction between the two, and (like you said) would probably show the generic group as Senior Societies and leave the term "Final Club" as a variant of the same, used only on certain campuses. Someone within these organizations would have to assert and prove that there IS a distinction, but until that is clarified and a citation is brought forward, I don't think it would pass review. Nor is a separate article on Final Clubs warranted. Jax MN (talk) 18:14, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All of these are a type of collegiate social clubs (which does not have a section in the article Social club other than a unreferenced section of GLOs). For now, we could simply modify that article to discuss College Social Clubs and link all of the miscellaneous variations to that new section as Type: Social club.
Final clubs might include sophomores or juniors; the term final refers to the "last" of a series of clubs, starting with freshmen clubs. Whereas, senior societies just include seniors. Since all final clubs are at Harvard, we can easily added the Type: Final club and direct to Harvard College social clubs. Hasty Pudding and Lincoln's Inn should redirect to Harvard College social clubs too; I suggest using Type: "Harvard College social clubs|Social club" but not using a template option "Social club" that should more correctly link to Social club.
Senior societies are at Yale and Penn for sure, and maybe a few other Ivy League or Ivey adjacent colleges. There is not currently a good link for all of these unless they are also considered a local honor society or secret society. Although there is an article on the University of Pennsylvania senior societies, I just checked all of Penn's senior society articles have either a literary, honor, or secret type. There is a redirect for List of Yale University student organizations but the text is just about its secret societies. Rublamb (talk) 19:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
An autofill of Type=Final Club already exists. I agree the non final clubs at Harvard in the Harvard College social clubs like Hasty Pudding can have that as a redirect. I agree a Senior Society list makes sense. I think we need to treat that local Honor groups which *aren't* specifically tied to GPA as Honor Society. I think that Iron Arrow Honor Society is a great example of that. But the question is how to distinguish between those and Yale/Penn's groups. I'll change and strike the ones that I think we've straightened out.Naraht (talk) 17:19, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have added more comments. Will start working on a Senior Society list article. Looks like Military is another type. It can link to Professional fraternities and sororities#Military, government, and foreign service. Rublamb (talk) 21:39, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
List of senior societies is ready for you to link to. I did not include any of Harvard's final societies or Princeton's eating club, but did reference those in the lede. Note that some secret societies and some local honor societies are also senior societies. Rublamb (talk) 02:38, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All groups in List of senior societies are now Senior society except for Mortar Board, which seems to belong as an Honorary.Naraht (talk) 15:25, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hasty Pudding and Lincoln's Inn should redirect to Harvard College social clubs too - done.

Umbrella group count...

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For the NPHC, there are 9 organizations that are part of it. Does that 9 go in the "members" entry or the "chapters" entry? Our umbrella organizations don't appear to be consistent on it. (part of the issues where the umbrella groups don't *quite* align with individual ) Naraht (talk) 18:39, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer using the members field in the format "9 organizations" or "9 fraternities" or "9 sororities", depending on the type of umbrella. Rublamb (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Seems more reasonable than chapters. I'll work my way through our umbrellas and change, though for the ones that are across gender, I think 9 fraternities and sororities makes more sense.Naraht (talk) 02:28, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal - Missing chapters don't include Umbrella

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Change "If no chapter value put group into Missing chapters category" to "If no chapter value and type is not Umbrella put group into Missing chapters category".Naraht (talk) 09:46, 25 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Implemented. Not sure if I got it right, did check that infoboxes still work, but may take a while to purge causing them to fall out of the category.Naraht (talk) 21:56, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I will let you know if I find any issues with the list I am using for the cleanup project. Rublamb (talk) 00:24, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Primefac Could you please check the code? I don't see an effect of changing the code in Professional Fraternity Association and I have both waited 12 hours and made a small edit. :(Naraht (talk) 13:51, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be working properly to me. Tracking cats can sometimes be a bit recalcitrant to actually update, so that might have been the issue. Primefac (talk) 00:39, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
PrimefacBeen a week and I did make a change to the Professional Fraternity Association article, should I make another edit removing the space that I added?Naraht (talk) 12:07, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's a single space, not worth the effort of making another edit just to remove it. Primefac (talk) 21:04, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Primefac. Not to fix the article, but as another attempt to force the update, as you say, recalcitrant...Naraht (talk) 01:40, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I'm confused, what needs updating? Primefac (talk) 12:47, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just as an idea. The change to the template still doesn't appear to be working. May be better to copy one of the umbrella ones to user or draft and see it gets added or not (it shouldn't)

Status as of 3/26/2025

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Figuring that the monthly run on the parameters will help confirm in a week or so. Current choices:

Plus a few "Harvard Social Clubs" that are piped to Harvard College social clubs|

Remaining:

AFD

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Religion

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Europe

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Most of these are student corporations. I think student corporation is on our articles for creation list but am not sure we have sources to put it together. However, there is some mention of student corporations in Student society so that will be my go-to for now

Fraternity concept Adjacent, but deliberately not

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Despite protests, they are essentially social fraternities and sororities. Just got rid of hazing.

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AND

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(Both of these single gendered and tied to each other, so seems like Social regardless what the call themselves - response to above suggestion and in either case should have the same decision)

Change to infobox Org

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Other

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Naraht (talk) 14:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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I've been adding links to emphasis, so for example, Omicron Alpha Tau goes from emphasis = Jewish to emphasis = [[List of Jewish fraternities and sororities|Jewish]]. I did similarly for the Hispanic/Latino and LGBT groups that had emphasis without a link. I looked to do the same thing for African American groups, but I noticed the NPHC groups already had them linked to African American. Should those be changed so they link to List of African-American fraternities and sororities?Naraht (talk) 17:23, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think so. It is both consistent with other emphasis classes, and probably more informative for readers. Jax MN (talk) 17:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanx. I don't expect the emphasis field to be *anywhere* near as consistent as type or status. And as such the Parameter report won't be *quite* as useful, but still worth some level of consistency.Naraht (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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