Talk:Tariffs in the second Trump administration

this article is not limited to today's tariffs

although it seems to be written that way so far

I suspect this is only the opening event soibangla (talk) 01:42, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

This is an article about the tariffs imposed during Trump's second presidency. There simply are not any other tariffs within the scope of this article. The2gingerman (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

tariffs vs. trade war title

ElijahPepe, as I see it Trump has now initiated two trade wars, most notably the China–United States trade war, but also involving imports from other nations, resulting in retaliation across the board.

now that Canada and Mexico have announced they will respond, the trade war is on, thus the title should reflect what Trump has effected, rather than the means he has used to effect it. soibangla (talk) 03:05, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

It is an improper title at this moment because no reliable sources have declared a trade war in this sense. CBC is the only source to claim that there is a trade war with Canada. If there is a trade war with Canada and Mexico, separate articles for both should be created. Trump may choose to impose further tariffs in other sectors and other countries without causing a trade war there. If there is a global trade war, then a separate article on that should be created. In addition, I take issue with "Second Trump trade war" as a title, because it suggest that there is a first Trump trade war—which the trade war with China should supposedly constitute, but "First Trump trade war" was also the moved title for the first Trump tariffs. "Trump trade war (2025–present)" would be better, though I still take issue with covering three trade wars in the same article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:17, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

I disagree with Trump being in the name at all. It is a violation of NPOV in my view. This is not only Trump's doing - the trade war has also happened because of Trudeau and Sheinbaum's retaliation. And it is a trade war once they go in effect. It's not just a trade war between the US and those countries individually. The trade war impacts all three - their economies are intertwined. There is no need or reason for two (or three) separate articles - one article is fine, it just needs to be titled not so one-sided.

This is all premature, however, as we have to wait for Tuesday and see what happens. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 05:22, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. They are US Tariffs, and Canadian/Mexican retaliatory tariffs. Trump is part of the story, but the article is really about the tariffs themselves and their effect on citizens of those countries (and world trade generally). Trump's name shouldn't be in the article's title.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 05:44, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Trump says tariffs are the greatest things ever invented. he has argued for tariffs for decades. they are Trump tariffs. this is his gig. soibangla (talk) 07:40, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

This is all premature, however indeed, as I mentioned here on Talk earlier, as titled this article should not focus exclusively on today's events soibangla (talk) 07:20, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

I may circle back to you as coverage evolves soibangla (talk) 07:52, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Just a heads up that 2025 United States–Canada–Mexico trade war was created! kara❈talk 18:17, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

The title is inappropriate. Difficult to say how far the trade war will go. Most people until now believed that the threats were negotiating tactics. But I think it is clear now that it is very much a war and the press around the world reflects that.

This should be a general article about the trade war that the USA has now instigated with the rest of the world. I am not sure it makes much sense to create separate articles for every zone or country which the US is fighting. The list might become long and the conflicts are very much interrelated.

This by the way is the USA’s first real trade war since the 1800s. The Administration’s actions in 2017-2021 was more like a skirmish.

Maybe a title like the

“2025 global trade war”

is appropriate. I’d be optimistic and hope the war will be brought to an end within the year. Another possible, more general, title might be

"American trade protectionism in the 2020s"

TGcoa (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Strong Support to the current title. Maximum reliable sources are referring to it with the phrase "Trump tariffs" which it is anyways. Theofunny (talk) 06:01, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

It can be changed to Trump tariffs (2024- present) because most of the sources are not mentioning "Second". Theofunny (talk) 06:03, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Personally it should be changed to a trade war, that is what Canada is calling it: "So today the United States launched a trade war against Canada, their closest partner and ally, their closest friend. At the same time, they are talking about working positively with Russia, appeasing Vladimir Putin, a lying, murderous dictator. Make that make sense," Trudeau told reporters." Rock & roll is not dead (talk) 19:42, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 7 March 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus that the article should not remain at the current title, and rough consensus in favour of BD2412's proposal. (non-admin closure) Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:00, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

---

• Second Trump tariffs → Second Trump presidency tariffs
• First Trump tariffs → First Trump presidency tariffs

– "Second" is unnatural here because it's usually singular. This is proven by "second trump tariffs" (results are cut off from 2nd page on) only being used by Wikipedia mirrors, never any reliable sources. Alternatives like Tariffs of the second Trump presidency or Tariffs of the second presidency of Donald Trump avoid compound nouns but are quite wordy.

It is also confusing that reliable sources prefer to use both the words "first" and "second" to denote tariffs in 2025. Formal writing usually had "first/second round/wave of Trump tariffs in 2025 (not 2018)". Simply adding the word "presidency" solves this problem.

Sources

216.58.25.209 (talk) 20:50, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

• Support a move away from the current title. Any of the proposed are improvements that I would be willing to go with, but I think these should be under Tariffs in the first Trump administration and Tariffs in the second Trump administration. BD2412 T 21:27, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
• Strongly Oppose instead support change to "Trump tariffs (2025-present)" The tariffs are the brainchild of President Trump. "trump tariffs" - Google Search The term "Trump tariffs" is clear, simple as well as well supported. Theofunny (talk) 11:34, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
  • Support this alt. BD2412's is fine too, but wordy satkara❈talk 16:13, 9 March 2025 (UTC) See below!
  • Support this alt as nom. The other page would analogously be moved to "Trump tariffs (2018–2021)" 216.58.25.209 (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
  • I support "Trump tariffs (2018-19)" and "Trump tariffs (2025-)" This is the most concise solution I could come up with. GN22 (talk) 23:19, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
• Support I think the Second Trump presidency tariffs name would be much better, as proposed here Stuffinwriting (talk) 20:28, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
• Move to alt suggested by BD2412. That seems like a natural way to identify the topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
  • Oppose Keeping it clear how it is would be better. Most people will Google "trump tarrifs" instead of "second trump presidency tarrifs" to find the article. Mangoflies (talk) 02:38, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

    Redirects are cheap, though. BD2412 T 03:45, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

    Redirects are annoying, and add another layer of complexity Mangoflies (talk) 16:45, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

    Annoying in what way? The complexity should be effectively invisible to users. 1101 (talk) 05:05, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

    Change will not be necessary. It is a clear name, no need to disrupt. Mangoflies (talk) 17:13, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

• I struck through my response above after reconsidering the awkwardness of Trump tariffs (2017-2021), since half that time was not actually Trump tariffs. Support "Tariffs in the second Trump administration" satkara❈talk 19:01, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
• Support changing the current title. I agree that the current name is odd and sounds weird, but I believe something along the lines of "Tariffs during the first Trump administration" and "Tariffs during the second Trump administration" are more grammatically correct and WP:PRECISE. I agree with BD2412's proposal with a very slight word change. BootsED (talk) 03:21, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

  Strongly Support - A variant such as [[Tariffs during the first Trump administration]] and [[Tariffs during the second Trump administration]] is more legible, and this formatting has precedence in other articles of a similar nature – Chat-qui-Aboie (talk) 09:07, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Oppose unless the renaming and moving is to the following phrases in bold that are used more frequently than the original renaming proposal (us quotation marks to search an exact phrase). I would support the renaming because sounds awkward to me as well, but I don't want this relevant current event to lose rank while it's occurring; I prefer:

• "First Trump tariffs": 244,000 results (but awkward)
• "Tariffs in the first Trump administration": 18,300 results
• "Tariffs of the first Trump administration": 11,000 results
• "Tariffs during the first Trump administration": 3,500 results
• "First Trump administration tariffs": 1,980 results
• "First Trump presidency tariffs": 115 results
• "Tariffs of the first Trump presidency": 2 results
• "Tariffs of the first presidency of Donald Trump": No results

---

• "Second Trump tariffs": 230,000 results
• "Tariffs in the second Trump administration": 8,190 results
• "Second Trump administration tariffs": 2,530 results
• "Second Trump presidency tariffs": 10 results
• "Tariffs of the second Trump administration": 7 results
• "Tariffs during the second Trump administration": 4 results
• "Tariffs of the second Trump presidency": 1 result (this page)
• "Tariffs of the second presidency of Donald Trump": 1 result (this page)

As you can see, BD2412's proposal (in bold) gets better results as an exact phrase than the original move suggestion (in italics), consistently getting thousands of exact matches (underlined). The current name is more popular, but most of us agree it sounds ungrammatical or encyclopedic — plus, the phrase may be more popular in part simply because Wikipedia uses it. 1101 (talk) 04:59, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

I was about to move it to Tariffs in the second Trump administration myself and it's helpful to have the data. I think during implies the article should cover anything during the time period. satkara❈talk 23:44, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notification of attribution of content used in another article

Some relevant content from the table created by Satkara in this article has been added to the article Timeline of events related to the 2025 United States trade war with Canada. A similar notification was added to talk page Modifications to this content are ongoing.Oceanflynn (talk) 18:20, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

South Korea?

China and Japan are mentioned in the article, as well as Mexico, Canada, Australia, Britain, and Brazil. However, South Korea is not yet mentioned, despite having a significant role in what the U.S. media is referring to as a 'trade war'. 1101 (talk) 02:23, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

I think any country with related news should be mentioned under "other countries", but in the interest of not making the article too long + WP:DUE only countries with direct tariffs should get their own subsection. India might need a demotion but it's notable for getting Trump's "tariff king" nickname.

As of this morning South Korea is saying China's social media post was exaggerated: "Japanese and Korean officials said there was no decision to coordinate action with Beijing, but said the countries have recently discussed trade issues [...] A South Korean trade ministry spokeswoman told The Wall Street Journal that there were “some exaggerated aspects” in the Chinese social-media post." satkara❈talk 17:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

References

Tariff update

From [1] and [2]

• 34 percent on China
• 26 percent on India
• 25 percent on South Korea
• 24 percent on Japan
• 32 percent on Taiwan
• 10 percent on UK
• 46 percent on Vietnam
• 31 percent on Switzerland

• 49 percent on Cambodia
• 30 percent on South Africa
• 32 percent on Indonesia
• 10 percent on Brazil
• 10 percent on Singapore

Greatder (talk) 20:42, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Non-reciprocal april 2nd tariffs

currently the article refers to the tariffs as being reciprocal but BBC News ha just reported that this isn't the case, and is instead against 'any precieved barrier to US exports in other countries', which includes everything from tariffs to regulations and licence fees. This was on the BBC News channel a few minutes ago, and will try to get a text article from it in a bit Bejakyo (talk) 21:13, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

A friend of mine just calculated the maths. These tariffs have no correlation to any tariffs or trade barriers with the other countries. They have been calculated doing the following: ((Trade deficit with the US / Imports to the US)*100)/2. The full sheet with it is in this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1slHSlrwsqAHwRrwHCliRwYgQWUeD-ofLAz2IC4d1LkI/edit?usp=sharing if you would like to check it out. Gufand (talk) 22:44, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

I've seen some journalists on twitter/bluesky realize this too. We should keep our eyes out for a news article! satkara❈talk 00:24, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

these "reciprocal tariffs" appear to be the amount the US administration is claiming is unfair, NOT actual tariffs. This distinction should be made clearer. How they are calculated too is very unclear in the article. 91.154.169.156 (talk) 02:32, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't understand those figures for import and exports. They do not align with that provided by the US Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/index.html JAC Esquire (talk) 02:33, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

It's okay, multiple reliable sources have since confirmed and USTR posted the formula to their website themselves. The info was added to the article satkara❈talk 04:38, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

It's not OK. I know that formula was used. no dispute But the actual import/export values as reported by the US Census Bureau on behalf of USTR are NOT as per that Google sheet. So where do those umbers come from? JAC Esquire (talk) 11:28, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

@JAC Esquire: Trump did use the values provided by the US Census Bureau, so I don’t see how the values used by Gufand‘s friend are relevant to us. Brainiac242 (talk) 13:06, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Weasel word "journalists"

The tariff calculation is public information. https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/reciprocal-tariff-calculations 207.96.32.81 (talk) 12:42, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

BBC reports that the formula breaks down to the same idea, I'll add that. satkara❈talk 14:29, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Which section should the list of reciprocal tariff rates be?

Should the list of reciprocal tariff rates be in the Reciprocal tariff section and collapsed as it is now, or should it be moved below the summary table? I think below the summary table and expanded provides the most utility but wanted to build consensus. satkara❈talk 14:31, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

@Satkara: I think the list of reciprocal tariffs is more useful in the section about those reciprocal tariffs, but I agree it is more useful expanded than collapsed. Hopefully, the changes I made address your concerns. Brainiac242 (talk) 08:56, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

@Brainiac242 after sitting with it for a while I think it was a great idea! satkara❈talk 00:28, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Russia

"Among the countries not marked for tariffs in this round were Russia, Belarus, Cuba, North Korea, Canada and Mexico" --meaning that Russia etc will get the "universal" 10% rate, or meaning that they'll escape tariffs altogether? An important distinction that the article needs to make clear. 89.160.9.7 (talk) 15:39, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Russia, Belarus, Cuba and North korea are already on substantially higher tariffs, in what is known as Column 2 on the Customs Duty sheet. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summary/russia-column-2-rates-duty https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=bananas JAC Esquire (talk) 02:38, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Please don't move without a move discussion

@Scrimbler I'm not opposed to finding a shorter name, but this one was decided by consensus (see Talk:Tariffs_in_the_second_Trump_administration#Requested_move_7_March_2025). Please discuss name changes to build consensus before moving! satkara❈talk 15:47, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

I am sorry about that move without talking to you. Scrimbler (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

@Scrimbler it's okay, I'm not in charge of the page or anything. The title is pretty long but it's the same structure as most articles about Trump's second presidency. If you want to suggest a new title you can follow the process here to get more replies and see if people agree: WP:RSPM satkara❈talk 21:22, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

incorrect info in the list of country-specific tariffs

In the table in the section "Country-specific tariffs", there's a line indicating "All other nations: 10%", but this is incorrect because a few countries like Russia and North Korea are not targeted by those tariffs (sure, it's because they're already under other sanctions, but this is still incorrect to say they have 10% tariffs imposed on them). I corrected to "most other nations", but I'm afraid this is not very useful to people who'd want to use this table; but at least this is not incorrect.  — The preceding un­signed comment was added by 37.167.199.149 (talk)

Thank you for this information, which I believe to be correct.[3][4] I'm going to look for your edit and see if any adjustments are necessary, maybe via a footnote or parenthetical? 1101 (talk) 09:30, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Talib1101: I’m not sure the footnote you added is correct. While those countries weren’t included in the “Reciprocal Tariffs” tables the White House posted on Twitter, the actual executive order states that “The additional ad valorem duty on all imports from all trading partners shall start at 10 percent”, later providing exceptions only for Canada and Mexico, not Belarus, Cuba, North Korea, or Russia. “Liberation Day” tables seem to be wrong in another way too; they include Saint Pierre and Miquelon (50%), Réunion (37%), and Norfolk Island (29%), but the executive order states that “the additional ad valorem duty shall increase for trading partners enumerated in Annex I to this order at the rates set forth in Annex I to this order”, and Annex I doesn’t list any of the three territories. Brainiac242 (talk) 10:52, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Maybe you're right. The system is quite confusing. So you say there's a baseline 10% with "reciprocal" (calculated) tariffs added onto that, and that's what the countries in the note are spared? Feel free to revert, or maybe even use the note to clarify something else. 1101 (talk) 10:56, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Trump said he would impose a 10% baseline tariff on all imports to the United States and higher duties on dozens of countries. Russia, Cuba and North Korea did not appear on the list of countries facing higher 'reciprocal' tariffs, ... I think you're right. They are exempt from the calculated part of the reciprocal tariffs, but not the 10% part, which applies to literally everything? 1101 (talk) 10:58, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Talib1101: Yeah, I think what’s different for these countries is that, because they are already subject to tariffs higher than the 10% baseline, nothing immediately changes for them. But if their sanctions were lifted, they would still be subject to this 10% tariff. Brainiac242 (talk) 11:15, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Are you sure 10% is the baseline baseline? I think it's the additional baseline, if that makes sense. We can't speculate on what he'd do in a hypothetical speculation. Or, we can but we don't know. I believe he isn't setting the tariffs to 10%, but adding a 10% tariff. It is confusing, though.

As for your thing about "already higher than baseline", well, that's true. But so were some other countries, such as China, right? And he still tariffed them. I do think we should make it clear in the table which countries aren't subject to additional, "reciprocal" (baseline plus calculated) tariffs.

So I'll be adding the note back.[5] 1101 (talk) 11:22, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Reuters:

• "U.S. customs agents began collecting President Donald Trump's unilateral 10% tariff on all imports from many countries on Saturday" (emphasis mine)
• "President Donald Trump this week unveiled a 10% baseline tariff on all imports to the U.S. and much higher duties on many of the country's biggest trading partners, ... Russia, along with Belarus, Cuba and North Korea ... avoided additional tariffs." (I'm not sure if the additional tariffs refers to the baseline or the baseline plus calculated in this context)

I'm getting contradictory information

• "Imports from Belarus, Cuba, North Korea, and Russia (known as Column Two countries) will continue to be subject to their separate duty rates only." (Sounds like no change, meaning now baseline, which — as I understand it — is an additional baseline, not an absolute set baseline)
• The Hill sayys: "The White House on Thursday defended its decision to not include Russia, North Korea, Cuba or Belarus in the latest round of tariffs (once again, it sounds like they're completely exempt from the Liberation Day tariffs) But then goes on to say "President Trump on Wednesday imposed a 10 percent baseline tax on goods being imported into the U.S.", which doesn't sound like it has exceptions.

Emphasis on "many countries" — not all. But I could still be wrong given how confusing this tariff situation seems to be. I'll be going to bed so maybe someone else can figure it out. 1101 (talk) 11:42, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

To be clear, the New York Post is a terrible source, but it claims The Kremlin was among a handful of countries noticeably exempt from Trump’s decision to slap a 10% baseline tariff on all imports to the US, as well as higher duties on some of its biggest global trading partners.

So it's possible that by "reciprocal" tariffs, Reuters used scare-quotes for good reason. The tariffs, though calculated, are at a baseline even with no trade defect. (with trade deficit conflated with retaliatory tariffs?)

So, to be exempted from reciprocal tariffs is also to be exempted from the 10% in the table. (Correct me if I'm wrong). 1101 (talk) 11:17, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Talib1101: As I understand it, tariffs on imports to the US “shall start at 10 percent”, except for the few exceptions listed on the executive order. This means countries weren’t “imposed” 10% tariffs, but the tariffs they are subject to “are increased” to 10%, regardless of how high they were. Tariffs on some countries were increased to higher levels, because of the United States’ high (as determined by the formula) trade deficit with those countries. Russia, like the United Kingdom, was spared from those higher tariffs but, unlike the UK, it won’t see tariffs increase to 10% because it was already subject to tariffs higher than 10%; they are still subject to this baseline 10% tariff, but it won’t have any practical consequences for them.

I want to emphasize the “As I understand it” part, the system is, indeed, quite confusing. Brainiac242 (talk) 11:46, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Brainiac242 - Cuba, Russia, Belarus, and North Korea are "column 2" countries and thus exempted by this part of the EO: " (v) all articles from a trading partner subject to the rates set forth in Column 2 of the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTSUS);". satkara❈talk 14:03, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Satkara: My mistake. Thank you for the correction. I don’t know how I missed that part. Brainiac242 (talk) 14:44, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Brainiac242 No problem! It's confusing. I'm still wondering why Iran and Syria aren't column 2 countries. satkara❈talk 14:53, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Satkara: Or why Afghanistan got the baseline 10% tariff when, according to the formula used, they should have got 25%. Or why they listed Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Réunion, and Norfolk Island on the “Liberation Day” tables, but they aren’t included in Annex I. Brainiac242 (talk) 15:05, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

@Brainiac242 I think you just missed the column 2 exemption but otherwise have it right. Everyone gets at least a 10% tariff, and the annex 1 countries get higher rates, unless they're a column 2 country or the good is excluded. satkara❈talk 16:49, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't see the 34.45% tariff on Canadian softwood lumber? 2604:3D09:1689:300:D8CE:2866:83DD:9D37 (talk) 16:26, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

To-do list

Things that should probably be added, in case anyone else has time before I do!

• A new second sentence in the lead to clarify the notability and/or historical context of the tariffs. It used to have a line saying 1.4 tril compared to 380 bil first term, but that's outdated and someone edited it so it was no longer source-able. Things in the lead also need to be incorporated into the body.
• New de minimis exemption closure works weirdly - it's all applicable duties, unless through international postal network, in which case it's a 30% tariff or $25 per item (increasing to $50) source source
• How simple the formula is and why it shocked trade experts, making the term "reciprocal tariff" contentious (as is currently stated in the lead)
• Updates to impacts which is largely outdated now.
• This article makes no connections to American expansionism under Donald Trump
• The image of the liberation day tariffs table File:2025-April-02-Reciprocal tariffs.jpg implies that the tariffs listed are the only tariffs applied. Not sure how to fix this.
• Maybe a short paragraph at the top of "background" to explain context in US History and how this is a major reversal?
• Pop culture of penguin memes, possibly?

satkara❈talk 16:57, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

2025 United States Boycott

I created Draft:2025 United States Boycott for review. I created another article insted of adding the content here if that is OK. We will need to link to this article once rewieved. Thanks! Clenpr (talk) 06:52, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

@Clenpr nice job! However there's already a lot of articles about boycotts and protests about Trump, including

• Protests against the second presidency of Donald Trump
• Protests against Donald Trump
• Timeline of protests against Donald Trump
• 2025 Canadian boycott of the United States

the danger of having too many articles about the subject is that they get lost and hard to update. Do you think your article could be merged with Protests against the second presidency of Donald Trump and then we link that to this article? satkara❈talk 18:09, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Video starts at 10:04

Hi, so I noticed that the video put in the top right of the article, the first thing you see, does not start until ten minutes in, it is just a loading screen. I think I know the answer, but isn't there a better video we could use that doesn't have this? Apologies for asking a daft question. Essexman03 (talk) 17:41, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

@Essexman03 Thank you for pointing that out, I've never clicked play on it before. Technically, anyone could fix it by downloading the video (either off the Wikicommons page here or off the Youtube page here, edit the video to start at the right time, and then upload it back to wikicommons. satkara❈talk 18:05, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

The math may be wrong and the style subpar?

Trade defecit isn't exports minus imports, it's imports minus exports. Also, the White House source sets elasticity ε, to zero after stipulating that it's less than zero. It also has stylistic issues, using an inconsistent style of phi in the text vs in the image, and using the character '*' to represent multiplication. 1101 (talk) 08:54, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

exports-imports doesn't change much, just how you interpret a negative result; ie $100 imports - $50 exports is $-50 trade deficit, the other way is a $50 trade deficit. Looks like someone fixed the stylistic issues, what do you think? satkara❈talk 15:48, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Trump's hisotric support of tariffs citation

I was looking to understand when Trump's support tariffs became public after a video from MSNBC stated it was during his first term after reading a book by Peter Navarro.

The article states he's been of support of them since the 1980s with a linked citation to CBS News. The article doesn't actually talk about any historic support from Trump, and the only mention of 1980 was in reference to Regan talking about trade wars in 1987.

I wasn't confident enough to edit the article (newbie here), so wanted to call it out here. Sorry if this doesn't follow the typical methodology. Open to learning. 69.253.6.69 (talk) 13:49, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much for pointing that out. There must have been a reference lost at some point.

Here's a better link regarding Trump's history with tariffs, including a Youtube video of a documentary regarding that. I'll update the source. satkara❈talk 19:00, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Here's his tweet from 15 August 2018 2400:A844:9378:0:ADE9:4619:DD67:A407 (talk) 12:08, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Error in formula

This story is making the rounds in several RS today.[6] According to a conservative think tank, an incorrect number was used in the tariff formula making every tariff four times higher than that for which the formula was constructed. (Not commenting on the sanity of the formula itself) This is briefly mentioned in the lengthy NYT article cited in the article, but not in the article. If it lasts another day without comment from the administration, likely should be added. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

@Objective3000 this is what is referred to in the sentence "Brent Neiman said the administration used the wrong variable from his research—leading to results four times too high—and that trade deficits reflect economic fundamentals, not unfair trade" in the section Tariffs in the second Trump administration#Reactions, below formula, but maybe it could be made clearer or more visible? satkara❈talk 20:41, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

I think this is of rather major significance, particularly given the multi-trillion $ swings we are seeing in the US financial markets alone, and swings in financial markets around the world. The coverage is also heavy in RS today. A factor of four is massive in this case. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:49, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Would one of you be able to say if my "plain English" version is acceptable? My goal was to make it legible for a beginning algebra student, say an 8th grader. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

@SusanLesch I thought it was a little confusing where the 2 was coming from and tried to clarify. What do you think? satkara❈talk 22:35, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Good job, thanks. Now the whole section is consistent. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 8 April 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). Dasomm (talk) 08:51, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

---

Tariffs in the second Trump administration → Global trade war (2025–present) – It is global economic conflict like we've never seen before, which began Trump administration with countries around the world. Trump’s tariffs already inflicting serious economic damage. Dasomm (talk) 20:36, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Strong oppose as a much less concise title. Departure– (talk) 20:44, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

The proposed title is less words and less characters, whether you count what's inside the parentheses or not. 1101 (talk) 02:39, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose I think this article has a scope that is different from the current global economic conflict. It's about all tariffs imposed during these four years, not just the ones in April 2025. PrinceTortoise (he/him • poke) 21:39, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose as this is not a global trade war. A global trade war would refer to a lot of countries fighting a lot of other countries economically. This is really just the US vs the world. Timetorockknowlege (talk) 23:35, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

I would still call that a global trade war as financial markets are screwed up around the world and some countries could be in dire straights. But, that is not a !vote for or against this RM. O3000, Ret. (talk) 00:28, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose. The current title is sufficient. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 02:23, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose. The current name is clear. The proposed name leaves many questions unanswered. 1101 (talk) 02:38, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

• Comment — I personally am unconvinced one way or another but I wanted to add some missing context here. Several reputable journals are referring to this event as a "trade war" of some kind.

"Global Trade War" WSJ

"Trump’s Trade War" WSJ

"Trump Trade War" WSJ

"Trade War" NPR

"President Trump's trade war" NPR

"global trade war" CNN

AP Reuters NYT etc.

and many more examples this is all just from a quick search. So I don't think it's fair to dismiss the proposal just on whether we don't like it. Bausen Slaw (talk) 02:56, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

• Comment — I began working on Draft:2025 global trade war. While renaming this article would be shifting its focus and would not be appropriate, an article on the trade war is not a bad idea. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:46, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Great, thank you! Dasomm (talk) 08:00, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose - as per other comments regarding the suitability of the title. Calling it a "Global trade war" seems like borderline whitewashing from the cause, especially when the article makes it clear that the cause and rise of the situation are Tariffs in the second Trump administration. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:13, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reactions by country

The article seems to be missing content about each country's reaction to the tariff. Perhaps it could be included in the article or on its own page. Syn73 (talk) 03:48, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Found it. Syn73 (talk) 03:50, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Someone moved the section to Executive Order 14257 which is ...odd? I feel like these articles are getting confusing (Donald Trump's Liberation Day speech and Executive Order 14257 felt like conveying the same thing) and I need to go to the obscure executive order article to view the countries' reactions. Syn73 (talk) 12:19, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

@Syn73 agree, the on-going AFD at liberation day speech seems to have a consensus of moving "Donald Trump's Liberation Day speech" to a new name that would include info on the speech as well as expand on Tariffs in the second Trump administration#"Reciprocal tariff" policy.

I began a discussion on what the new name should be over here. Yes, there really are a lot of articles connected to this topic; I'm skeptical they'll all be maintained well. satkara❈talk 15:01, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Exempted countries

@Nice4What I undid your edit for now so we can talk it out. Please see this discussion as well. Other users have attempted to add "Belarus, Burkina Faso, Palau, Seychelles, Somalia, and Vatican City" as well, but the executive order does not include an exemption for them.

The two relevant exclusions are:

1. "The additional ad valorem duty on all imports from all trading partners shall start at 10 percent and shortly thereafter, the additional ad valorem duty shall increase for trading partners enumerated in Annex I" -- these are the Annex I countries, ie just the ones with rates above 10%.

2. "(v) all articles from a trading partner subject to the rates set forth in Column 2 of the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTSUS);" -- which is just Cuba, Russia, Belarus and North Korea.

The other countries may not have been listed on Trump's board, but according to the EO they would still be impacted by the "duty on all imports from all trading partners" EO.

Do you have a reliable source explaining not just that they weren't included, but how they aren't impacted? satkara❈talk 15:17, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

The two Tariff Posters (3 columns) and the two page document (2 columns)

The two Tariff Posters (3 columns):

• "Posters displaying information on reciprocal tariffs in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room of the White House in Washington, DC, US". The Irish Times. Bloomberg News. April 2, 2025. Archived from the original on 11 April 2025. Retrieved 11 April 2025.
• "In pictures: Trump signs executive order on global tariffs". The Irish Times. 2 April 2025. Archived from the original on April 2, 2025. Retrieved 11 April 2025.

the two-page document (2 columns):

• "ANNEX I" (PDF). The White House. 2025-04-02. Archived from the original (PDF) on April 3, 2025. Retrieved 2025-04-03.

Is there reporting on the third column?

69.181.17.113 (talk) 04:01, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Should we remove the "Germany" section and just make it part of the wider "EU"?

I do not quite see the reason of "Germany" being separate from the rest of the EU, especially since the section is really small. Also if we were to do a section for every Major EU nation it'd be too long. So my idea is to merge EU nations into the same section as its already done besides from Germany. But this does bring the debate on if we should make a separate article on Country-specific tariffs WITHIN the EU as each EU member reacted and was affected differently from Trump's tariffs. VitoxxMass (talk) 10:07, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

@VitoxxMass I support this! WP:NOTDATABASE means we should shorten or get rid of a lot of the countries. satkara❈talk 13:44, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Please include more numbers

While "trade deficit" is mentioned, no value is given. Let's have an NPOV and included some reasoning. For example, the US trade deficit with China is about 2 trillion dollars. https://countryeconomy.com/deficit/usa Furthermore, congress has repeatedly shut down the government because of increasing debt, i.e. the debt ceiling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States#List_of_federal_shutdowns What the tariffs are supposed to address is lost in a sea of political opinion. Sad, and what a short memory: perhaps another debt ceiling crisis would help? Nah, the past few didn't seem to wake anyone up.

Perhaps put in the lede that the government has been shut down 10 times over the debt ceiling since 1980, and it will likely be shut down again.

What interest does the US pay for the existing deficit/debt? I need a number. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.99.105 (talk • contribs)

No, the trade deficit with China is not $2 trillion. The goods and services gap was about $263 billion last year. Government shutdowns are for political reasons usually unrelated to the US debt. Historically more about efforts to demand abortion legislation or other such issues. Besides, the government is not buying all this stuff. The rates depend on the various treasury auctions. O3000, Ret. (talk) 18:38, 11 April 2025 (UTC)