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Resolve conflict please

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Need your involvement Admin Sahib Ranjit Singh article

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Ranjit Singh

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Reason: small level of vandalism.

  • RegentsPark, Ranjit singh Article has been conflicted by editor see user:Hind ji,he always edit jat caste related articles or I think he belongs to jat caste please see the log of user:Hind ji[[1]]So your involvement requested to resolve the conflict ,there are variety of resources available on the internet but recently University had his researched on criminal tribes shows Ranjit Singh belongs to sansi caste :Hind ji try to declared Ranjit Singh as jat ,I have added that link as reliable source or as reference but one of user:Hind ji has reverted my edit without informing me .I may also have been wrong ,kindly resolve our issues.hope for early reply Thank you.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/features/research-on-tribes-dubbed-criminal-by-british-397524 He trying to create influence of jat caste .

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2024

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Maharaja Ranjeet Singh was Warraich Jat Sikh Not Sandhawalia and Sandhawalia is a clan not Surname but now people use it as Surname 180.214.143.205 (talk) 11:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 13:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2024

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Change Sikhism to Sikhi throughout the article The article wrote Sikhism instead of sikhi. Sikhism is not correct because the word “sikhi” means learner which is what we as Sikhs are, so to add “ism” is completely changing the words meaning. 2607:FEA8:80A7:E600:D456:C199:C428:5467 (talk) 10:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Sikhism is a valid term according to our article on the subject. If you disagree, you might want to start a discussion over on that talk page. – Anne drew 21:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caste background of Ranjit Singh, Jat or Sansi?

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Since a recent editor (@Wikiravidas) is trying to make changes regarding this, here are the sources which support that Ranjit Singh belonged to a Jat background: [1][2][note 1]

References

  1. ^ Arora, A. C. (1984). "Ranjit Singh's Relations with the Jind State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 86. ISBN 978-81-7380-772-5. OCLC 557676461. Even before the birth of Ranjit Singh, cordial relations had been established between the Sukarchakia Misal and the Phulkian House of Jind. ... the two Sikh Jat chiefships had cultivated intimate relationship with each other by means of a matrimonial alliance. Maha Singh, the son of the founder of Sukarchakia Misal, Charat Singh, was married to Raj Kaur, the daughter of the founder of the Jind State, Gajpat Singh. The marriage was celebrated in 1774 at Badrukhan, then capital of Jind1, with pomp and grandeur worthy of the two chiefships. ... Ranjit Singh was the offspring of this wedlock.
  2. ^ Singh, Patwant; Rai, Jyoti M. (2008). Empire of the Sikhs: the life and times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. London: Peter Owen. p. 69. ISBN 978-0720613230.
  3. ^ McLeod, W. H. (2009). The A to Z of Sikhism. Scarecrow Press. p. 172. ISBN 978-0810863446. Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh with respect and affection as their greatest ruler. Ranjit Singh was a Sansi and this identity has led some to claim that his caste affiliation was with the low-caste Sansi tribe of the same name. A much more likely theory is that he belonged to the Jat got that used the same name. The Sandhanvalias belonged to the same got.
  4. ^ Singh, Birinder Pal (2012). 'Criminal' Tribes of Punjab. Taylor & Francis. p. 114. ISBN 978-1136517860. Ibbetson and Rose and later, Bedi, had clarified that the Sansis should not be confused with a Jat (Jutt) clan named Sansi to which perhaps Maharaja Ranjit Singh also belonged.

Clearly, Ranjit Singh was a Jat. His Jat clan also called "Sansi", which led to the confusion that he belonged to the Sansi tribe, which shared the same name. This what reliable sources have to say on the matter.

The sources that Wikiravidas added to somehow support that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi:

1) Shackle, C. (1984). The Sikhs. Atlantic Publishers & Distri. p. 48. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - This is a fake book or a mistake on Google Books. This is actually a reprint of the British Raj-era source: 'Sikhs' (1899) by A. H. Bingley, thus should not be used for caste-related claims as per WP:RAJ. See the link to the book on Google Books (see: [2]), you can see a preview of the title-page where it clearly states the author was A. H. Bingley, not C. Shackle.

2) Brandt, Carmen (2018). The 'Bedes' of Bengal: Establishing an Ethnic Group through Portrayals. LIT Verlag Münster. p. 250. ISBN 978-3-643-90670-0. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - This is the full quote from the book that Wikiravidas cited that supposedly supports their claim that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi on pages 249–250:

"After the discussion of various narratives of origin of different Sansi groups located in different parts of present-day India and Pakistan in the first chapter (Singh 1965: 1-12), what emerges is the fact that each narrative refers to respectable roots of the Sansis. In the chapter "Maharaja Ranjit-Singh: The most glorious Sansi" (ibid.: 13-22) the author tries to prove that the eminent historic figure Maharaja Ranjit Singh essentially has Sansi roots. It is obvious that the author uses this genealogy in his publication primarily for reinforcing a noble history for the Sansis in general."

It clearly discusses how Singh (1965) tries to attribute Ranjit Singh as being a Sansi to aggrandize the caste in his book. Nowhere in the book do the authors state they believe Rnajit Singh had a Sansi origin.

3) Sher, Sher Singh (1965). The Sansis of Punjab: A Gypsy and De-notified Tribe of Rajput Origin. Munshiram Manoharlal. p. 9. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - As stated in the above source, the author attempted to link Ranjit Singh to a Sansi origin to aggrandize the caste. Also, is this Sher Singh "Sher" even a reliable source? Does not appear to be a historian.

4) Singh, Birinder Pal (29 August 2019). Indigeneity and Occupational Change: The Tribes of Punjab. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 978-1-000-69977-7. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - Here is the full quote from the book:

"Sher claims that Sher-i-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to the Sansi community. He contests: 'the history of the Sansis of the Punjab would remain incomplete without an account of the life and ancestry of the great Maharaja ... His real ancestry has been camouflaged by the Jats. The Sansis consider it an historical injustice to them' (1965, 13). Ibbetson and Rose have deliberated on this aspect in the following account:

A Hindu Jat clan (agricultural) found in Montgomery and Amritsar. In the latter District Raja Sansi a village 7 miles from Amritsar is the ancestral home of the Sindhanwalia family which claims Rajput descent and belongs to this got. They are also found in Gujranwala. In Gujranwala they are described as an off shoot of the Bhatti clan and they take their name from one Sansi, whose great-grandson, Udrat, came from Bhatner in Hindustan 18 generations ago, and adopted a pastoral life in that district. (1970, 362)

Jaggi has a different take on this issue. He says: 'There is Sanhsi caste among Jatts in Punjab. But this word is derived from the Sanskrit's "sahsi", that means courageous (himmatwala), one with guts (juratwala). This has no relation with the Sansi" caste. Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to this Jatt got' (2005, 221; no italics)."

Again, where exactly do the authors of this book assert that Ranjit Singh was somehow a Sansi? Again, they are providing commentary on the claim of Sher (1965) who tried to link Ranjit Singh to the Sansi caste. They further provide an opposing view by Jaggi which explains that Ranjit Singh was a Jatt.

MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2025 (UTC) MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@MaplesyrupSushi - Descendants of Sansis of Raja Sansi rose to great power, and they could establish matrimonial relationships with Jatts. Budha Sansi was the first member of family who became Sikh, Comment from books named 'The Sansis of Punjab -A Gypsy and De-notified Tribe of Rajput Origin' Published in 1965. Wikiravidas (talk) 03:55, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikiravidas - Did you read my post? This exact book and its unreliability was discussed, in-fact it was discussed in two citations you yourself referenced in your edits. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 03:57, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MaplesyrupSushi- Who you are to claim unreliability of anyone's published work. Even the website of sukerchakia clan mentioned Ranjit Singh was ancestors were Sansi.
https://sukerchakia.com/sansi-sikh/ Wikiravidas (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikiravidas - You lack understanding of Wikipedia policy. I will be taking this to the admins. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:04, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MaplesyrupSushi - Tribune Newspaper Heading - Vimukt Jati assn stages protest-( Comment - Ram Rashpal said Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s elders belonged to Sansi community, who had later converted to Sikhism.)
Link - https://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20141114/asrtrib.htm#12 Wikiravidas (talk) 03:57, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikiravidas - News articles are not reliable sources for history, as per: WP:HISTRS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Also, the news article states that a man named Ram Rashpal Singh, association president of the Vimukt Jati Welfare Association (with the Vimukt Jati being a former so-called "criminal tribe", like the Sansis, obvious conflict of interest) claims that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi. Again, unreliable source. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:02, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikiravidas - Since you are unable to provide any reliable sources that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi, please revert your edits. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MaplesyrupSushi - It appears probable that from Sansi the Sindhanwalias and Sansis have a common descendant. The Sansis are thievish, and if the history of Maharaja Ranjit Singh is attentively considered, it will appear that much of his policy and many of his actions had a true Sansi complexion. - From book name- Handbook on Sikhs for the Use of Regimental Officers - Page- 128- Published in 1896
https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Handbook_on_Sikhs_for_the_Use_of_Regimen/LLcbM7qePMwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=maharaja+ranjit+singh+sansi&pg=PA128&printsec=frontcover Wikiravidas (talk) 04:20, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikiravidas Unreliable source. British Raj era sources are not reliable for caste. See: WP:RAJ. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:21, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MaplesyrupSushi - Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab belonged to the Sansi caste. The Sansi caste, a low caste, was later on designated as a criminal tribe by the British . (After independence the Punjab Government in one decision changed the caste structure… …… Book name—Strategies of Social Change in India,page - 163, published in 1996
https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Strategies_of_Social_Change_in_India/7lKM4aWhIH0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=ranjit+singh+sansi&pg=PA163&printsec=frontcover Wikiravidas (talk) 04:34, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2025

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Change " Ranjit singh" to " Maharaja Ranjit singh" at every location where it comes. 59.92.74.141 (talk) 09:30, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Maharaja should only be used at the beginning as it is an honorary title, not an actual part of his name. Theeverywhereperson (talk here) 10:21, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]


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