Talk:Moderne architecture

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Moderne vs. subtypes including Streamline Moderne

I just restored this article, which had been redirected incorrectly to Streamline Moderne architecture in 2014 and 2015, along with incorrect redirection in 2015 of Category:Moderne architecture and Category:Moderne architecture in the United States and all their subcategories to Category:Streamline Moderne architecture and Category:Streamline Moderne architecture in the United States, etc. Unfortunately a large number of articles have had their categories changed incorrectly by bot or by manual edits, to put into Streamline Moderne, when the buildings are not of that subtype. Streamline modern involves curves for ship-like streamlining or aerodynamic shape, having ocean-liner-esque curves is the most salient differentiating factor from my point of view.

Persons asserting that Streamline Moderne is just another term, or the preferred term, for Moderne are not completely without sources seeming to equate them. For example http://circaoldhouses.com/art-deco-art-moderne/ equates Art Moderne with Streamline Moderne, and just differentiates them vs. Art Deco (without discussing PWA Moderne or Stripped classicism or other terms not related to Streamline). Please note that source include 'rounded edges', 'curved canopies', ' Occasional circular porthole, oculus, round windows on main or secondary elevations' and 'References to the sea/the ocean: curves, horizontal vectors and lines, and light blue finishes like aquamarine, azure, baby blue, cyan, teal, and turquoise' as identifying features.

However, two huge points to be recognized are:

PWA Moderne is very clearly different, and does not involve curves and streamlining.
that there are many buildings identified as Moderne in the U.S. National Register of Historic Places, a good number identified as PWA Moderne, and relatively few specifically identified as Streamline Moderne. All of those identified as Moderne (hundreds I think) and probably many PWA Moderne ones have been swept (incorrectly) into Streamline categories.

Pinging Carptrash, Lockley, BoringHistoryGuy: I noticed you all collaborating very well in developing Pedimental sculptures in the United States, and I wonder if you could possibly please comment here, towards helping to fix the situation here. The only exception right now is Juneau County Courthouse, a brand new article just created by me, which is currently the sole member of Category:Moderne architecture in the United States. I don't know if a bot will arrive and sweep it away too, or whether my just reestablishing the category (replacing a category redirect) will deactivate the bot which would have swept it. Please comment! --do ncr am 22:29, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Another online source is http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/portal/communities/architecture/styles/moderne.html, which briefly states Moderne replaced Art Deco in the 1930s. What it describes is compatible with streamline moderne, including saying it is easily seen by its "curvilinear" forms, but it is calling it Moderne. The five example photos don't all show curves, though.

Also I added another article, the 1919-1920-built, mid-1940s facade-modified Lyceum Theater (Clovis, New Mexico), to the category. I suppose an architectural historian might possibly argue (but not in any sources I know) that this building is Art Deco not "Moderne" of the curvilinear type. But it is labelled as "Modern Movement: Moderne" in its NRHP nomination, categorized as "Moderne" in NRIS, and its text describes it or some of its details multiple times as "Modernistic" or "modernistic" without using "Moderne" in the text. IMHO it would surely be wrong to impose "Streamline Moderne" upon this building. "Moderne" is used here and in other NRHP documentation as a general style; what we need to do in Wikipedia is describe properly the common usage of the term (which is not merely the Streamline/curvilinear subtype). --do ncr am 20:43, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Modern architecture is a well-developed article, which defines PWA Moderne, but not Moderne? Is Moderne in practice a shortcut for PWA Moderne? But what about buildings not associated with the PWA or other New Deal public works programs. The post offices. The movie theatres. --do ncr am 21:06, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Academic Writing II 2pm

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 March 2024 and 13 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ilovesushilol15 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Cosmo1836.

— Assignment last updated by Cosmo1836 (talk) 10:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology & pronunciation?

From French (mute final e), or maybe German (audible final e)?

This might also help with sharpening the definition, which isn't quite there yet. Arminden (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bauhaus probably here by mistake

"The Bauhaus movement

"The Bauhaus movement, along with architects like Walter Gropius and Mies van der Rohe, kickstarted Modernist architecture in Germany during the 1920s. After the Nazis shut down the Bauhaus in 1933, these architects brought their innovative style to the United States, where it became hugely popular and influential."

What makes Bauhaus be part of MODERNE, as opposed to being just another style among the many Modern (w/o a final -e) architectural styles?

The vague definition offered for the topic at hand (and the confusing name), Moderne architecture (Moderne with a final -e), strikes again.

Also unsourced. Removed. Arminden (talk) 21:49, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing

As-is, this article is extremely confusing. To the best of my knowledge, there are multiple synonyms for Art Deco and its phases, with the use and meaning of these alternative names varied by country and particular architecture scholar. See, for example, Michael Windower[1] quoting Adrian Tinniswood: the names for Art Deco were apparently:

in the UK:
- modernistic (style)
- Jazz Modern[e]
in Australia:
- modern ship style
- streamlinist
in the US:
in France:
- style moderne
- universalisme

IMHO, we should (1) in every article from this list explicitly acknowledge that Art Deco architecture style classification varies by source and (2) identify the countries and experts that using this particular classification. Викидим (talk) 00:15, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, and thanks. Please go ahead!

I didn't notice your comment until now, and I hope I've addressed some of the problems in the last few hours. At least it's a start. I really must stop now, sorry. Arminden (talk) 03:27, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Another point: what the style was called by contemporaries is probably little more than a curiosity on Wiki, which is mainly a general-interest resource; what the mainstream terminology is now is, I guess, the most relevant. Anyhow, we cannot have articles w/o clear definitions of the topic at hand, and here things are still far from well. Arminden (talk) 10:09, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree with you: there is no need to have articles for obscure terms of the past (Mike Hope puts the number of related terms into dozens, see [2]), an no good sources to describe them anyhow. However, redirects for all these terms (most likely, to Art Deco) might be very useful. The regional varieties quite likely can be adequately covered in sources and thus might end up as articles, similarly to Pisan Romanesque of the Romanesque style. Викидим (talk) 19:48, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not Moderne

The ziggurat facade, with its vertical orientation, looks more Art Deco than Moderne to me. No rounded corners either. I looked it up and others (see here) also have it under Art Deco with of International Style influence, while its architect, L. Murray Dixon, is known for his Art Deco work.

Unless someone can convince me of the opposite, it's out. Arminden (talk) 10:28, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]