Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Current issues and requests archive 59
 | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Excessive vandalism on Syco - please protect, if necessary. Thanks, Aranya (talk) 19:06, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Done -Djsasso (talk) 19:09, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
The user is blocked indefinitely on enwiki with WP:CIR cited. Since the user has arrived they have created an article about an un-notable subject. Following the QD tag being placed, they then started an unneeded RfD for the article. I propose we implement WP:ONESTRIKE as it is evident that the user is still not competent enough for Wikipedia. There are also other issues I cannot mention in a public setting. --IWI (talk) 00:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Some examples include this article that was also created that had to be significantly cleaned up; this incorrect capitalisation; here where they seemed to not understand that the birds were in a different section, thus leading them to remove the whole section; and this message, which in my view is not the kind of message a user should give in most situations. I think this most likely fits into the ONESTRIKE category, considering the nature of the enwiki block. Thoughts? --IWI (talk) 05:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Going to block. I've kept an eye on their behaviour and it's clear the CIR concerns first brought up at enwiki are visible here. Hiàn (talk) 18:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- I probably wouldn't have jumped to this so fast. Onestrike while it can be used for this. I would probably have AGF'd something like CIR for a bit longer because they could be trying to get better as opposed to a vandal who comes here and continues who clearly isn't. -Djsasso (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- They were warned about ONESTRIKE in June. Wouldn't exactly call that "jumping fast", if I am being totally honest. --IWI (talk) 19:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- And did almost no editing in the time between then and now in article space (most of his edits have come since yesterday). ONESTRIKE is a last resort for bad editors who clearly came here for no good reason. CIR on the other hand could very well be someone meaning well but just unable to fix. The solution here is to work with said person for a bit and show them how they could be better before dropping the hammer on them. It is very WP:BITEy to do it in this situation. We need to get people out of this mindset that has crept onto this wiki over the last year or so that simple wikipedia is a place where we play the game of wack-a-vandal or wack-a-user. It is very detrimental to this wiki. -Djsasso (talk) 19:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- (change conflict) Why should our users have to clean up mess created by new editors? Some people are inherently not competent enough for Wikipedia, or at least not yet. Various attempts were made on enwiki to help the user, but they don't seem to learn from errors pointed out to them. Here, Infogapp advised him to not welcome users who have not edited yet, and he has continued. I am certain that this user is editing good faith, but this is not enough; competence is required also. This kind of disruption moves other editors away from writing articles and instead cleaning up the endless problems. This situation is exactly what onestrike is for. They were repeatedly warned on enwiki; why should we repeat such futility here? This is not an attack on the user, but merely a pragmatic approach that is ultimately good for the encyclopedia itself (the most important thing). What if some of the issues created never get fixed? I am also concerned about the growing problem of some administrators on the English Wikipedia sending disruptive editors here and treating our wiki as a place to redeem themselves. --IWI (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- It is not a growing problem, it has always been the case. Whether we like it or not that is how we get almost all of our editors. If we want to increase our editor base we learn to be more lenient when good faith is involved. Because if we can correct the issue, then our userbase increases by one, which for us is a very big deal. Secondly, since he was not banned at en.wiki ONESTRIKE technically does not apply to him, he was only indefinitely blocked, onestrike requires a community ban. Now I realize some admins (including myself) at times will say a block is onestrike when they haven't been banned on en.wiki we are technically wrong in doing so (though sockpuppeters are considered defacto banned which is where I see it happen most often). I should also point out while we shouldn't welcome editors who haven't edited here yet, that is in no way shape or form something a person should be blocked for. You need to use some common sense. Blocking is a last resort. -Djsasso (talk) 20:17, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Of course they shouldn't be blocked for that alone. In no way was I suggesting such a thing. --IWI (talk) 20:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- I took some time to think over my action, and I think DJSasso has a point here that I clearly neglected to consider when I chose to prematurely bring down the banhammer. It was a bad call on my part and my initial comment here should have been very, very different. This wasn't a correct application of ONESTRIKE - and if any admins choose to overturn the block, it's not in my place to make any objections. I don't have much more to say other than my apologies for Hamuyi, and that I still have to continue to learn and do better. Hiàn (talk)/editing on mobile account. 20:57, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No worries, you were acting in good faith, my initial comment was mostly just made in a "I wouldn't have done it, but its done." sort of way. Was a totally understandable action to take. -Djsasso (talk) 21:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- You and Djsasso have two viewpoints, both of which are equally acceptable approaches. I tend to agree with Hiàn's view, but that's just me. --IWI (talk) 21:17, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No worries, you were acting in good faith, my initial comment was mostly just made in a "I wouldn't have done it, but its done." sort of way. Was a totally understandable action to take. -Djsasso (talk) 21:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- I took some time to think over my action, and I think DJSasso has a point here that I clearly neglected to consider when I chose to prematurely bring down the banhammer. It was a bad call on my part and my initial comment here should have been very, very different. This wasn't a correct application of ONESTRIKE - and if any admins choose to overturn the block, it's not in my place to make any objections. I don't have much more to say other than my apologies for Hamuyi, and that I still have to continue to learn and do better. Hiàn (talk)/editing on mobile account. 20:57, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Of course they shouldn't be blocked for that alone. In no way was I suggesting such a thing. --IWI (talk) 20:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- It is not a growing problem, it has always been the case. Whether we like it or not that is how we get almost all of our editors. If we want to increase our editor base we learn to be more lenient when good faith is involved. Because if we can correct the issue, then our userbase increases by one, which for us is a very big deal. Secondly, since he was not banned at en.wiki ONESTRIKE technically does not apply to him, he was only indefinitely blocked, onestrike requires a community ban. Now I realize some admins (including myself) at times will say a block is onestrike when they haven't been banned on en.wiki we are technically wrong in doing so (though sockpuppeters are considered defacto banned which is where I see it happen most often). I should also point out while we shouldn't welcome editors who haven't edited here yet, that is in no way shape or form something a person should be blocked for. You need to use some common sense. Blocking is a last resort. -Djsasso (talk) 20:17, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- (change conflict) Why should our users have to clean up mess created by new editors? Some people are inherently not competent enough for Wikipedia, or at least not yet. Various attempts were made on enwiki to help the user, but they don't seem to learn from errors pointed out to them. Here, Infogapp advised him to not welcome users who have not edited yet, and he has continued. I am certain that this user is editing good faith, but this is not enough; competence is required also. This kind of disruption moves other editors away from writing articles and instead cleaning up the endless problems. This situation is exactly what onestrike is for. They were repeatedly warned on enwiki; why should we repeat such futility here? This is not an attack on the user, but merely a pragmatic approach that is ultimately good for the encyclopedia itself (the most important thing). What if some of the issues created never get fixed? I am also concerned about the growing problem of some administrators on the English Wikipedia sending disruptive editors here and treating our wiki as a place to redeem themselves. --IWI (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- And did almost no editing in the time between then and now in article space (most of his edits have come since yesterday). ONESTRIKE is a last resort for bad editors who clearly came here for no good reason. CIR on the other hand could very well be someone meaning well but just unable to fix. The solution here is to work with said person for a bit and show them how they could be better before dropping the hammer on them. It is very WP:BITEy to do it in this situation. We need to get people out of this mindset that has crept onto this wiki over the last year or so that simple wikipedia is a place where we play the game of wack-a-vandal or wack-a-user. It is very detrimental to this wiki. -Djsasso (talk) 19:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- They were warned about ONESTRIKE in June. Wouldn't exactly call that "jumping fast", if I am being totally honest. --IWI (talk) 19:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- I probably wouldn't have jumped to this so fast. Onestrike while it can be used for this. I would probably have AGF'd something like CIR for a bit longer because they could be trying to get better as opposed to a vandal who comes here and continues who clearly isn't. -Djsasso (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Going to block. I've kept an eye on their behaviour and it's clear the CIR concerns first brought up at enwiki are visible here. Hiàn (talk) 18:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- There's another option. Why not ask Hamuyi to leave? Say "We saw your work on Simple and some of us think you still are not competent enough to edit in English. Would you please go away without a formal block? That way, if your English skills improve in a few years, you won't have to go through all the drama of filing for an appeal, and you won't be at risk of a global ban the way you would if you were indeffed on two Wikis." Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:09, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Absolutely not. Such messaging is contrary to the mission of the wiki. If CIR is really an issue, then a block/ban should be considered (as has been done here). We shouldn't be asking users to leave of their own accord for the purpose of avoiding the need to go through drama, whatever that means. It is worth noting that in the past (at least a few years back) we would typically consider mentorship arrangements before blocks/bans are even suggested, but the crunch in editors' resources has made it a less feasible course of action in recent times. Chenzw Talk 04:12, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Moving a page
Why do I not have permission to move pages? ɑccelerɑte9868 (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- New users can't move pages, you need to be autoconfirmed. -Djsasso (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Ɑccelerɑte9868: In the mean time you can ask here for any moves you want to do, and an autoconfirmed user or administrator can do it. --IWI (talk) 17:23, 1 September 2020 (UTC)