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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pigsonthewing (talk | contribs) at 11:19, 7 March 2019 (→Template:People who flew to the Moon without landing: c). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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March 6

Hatnote list modules

Propose merging Module:About-distinguish, Module:Distinguish and Module:Main list.

Previous TfDs for this template:

Nearly duplicate modules, sharing the core component of taking an unlimited number of parameters from template arguments and converting them into a list using Module:Hatnote list. All of the other features are frills that could easily be implemented in Wikitext. I've written a merged module at Module:Sandbox/pppery/sentence list hatnote (distinguishing this from the previous TfD, when no merged module was available), and written templates that use it in Template:About-distinguish/sandbox, Template:Distinguish/sandbox and Template:Main list/sandbox. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 05:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Pinging participants from previous discussions: @Nihiltres, SMcCandlish, and GreenC: {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 05:35, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Module:Cat main is intentionally excluded from this nomination, because (a) it has several unique features like bolding the title and (b) there was some talk about making it not a hatnote at all. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 05:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sounds reasonable. I'm in favor of consolidating code like this whenever practical to do so.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merger in principle, oppose current implementation - instead of writing the the actual text hatnote in the template and having all templates access the same module entry point, create a different entry point for each different style (then continue the code as normal, with all entry points accessing the list() function). As I've commented in a previous discussion, if we go with a module design pattern, then keep all the code there. --Gonnym (talk) 08:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I deliberately modeled my code in Module:Sandbox/pppery/sentence list hatnote after Module:Labelled list hatnote, which similarly takes all its arguments from wikitext. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 14:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If that is indeed the already used practice, then I don't oppose that anymore. Question, I looked at the code in Module:Labelled list hatnote and am wondering why does your module code copy so much of that code, instead of letting the Labelled list module handle it? Is there a reason I'm missing why it can't handle it? --Gonnym (talk) 14:49, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Because Nihiltres opposed merging with Module:Labelled list hatnote in the July 5 TfD. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 15:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Amazing. Well, in that case there is not a lot to do. It's very silly to duplicate over 90% of a module, but it seems that there is no other way. --Gonnym (talk) 18:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Feel free to propose a merge of the two modules after this discussion concludes (I would support it). {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel that you took me too literally on that; there's obviously enough commonality between the two to propose an expansion that would reuse most of the code directly in a DRY manner by refactoring monolithic code into separate functions. I opposed the July 5 one on the grounds that it didn't make sense to bloat Module:Labelled list hatnote to support {{Distinguish}} alone, but I did explicitly mention the possibility of rearranging the module structure to accommodate the idea. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 07:14, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose. Specifically, I oppose the implementation for {{about-distinguish}} that puts its Wikidata functionality in wikitext, because I oppose splitting template logic between modules and wikitext. It's one thing to supply simple text labels on the wikitext side, and quite another to supply conditionals; it's a needlessly confusing practice. I would suggest instead a simple "wrapper" module that added these conditionals by injecting their result into the input of the main function. The rest is okay I guess but could use a bit of tweaking; I haven't looked over it as thoroughly as I probably should.

    More generally, and let me make it unequivocally clear this time: Pppery, I find your practice of introducing template changes through TfD to be unwiki and unconducive to collaboration with you. I find it stressful to see nothing for some time, then be pinged on a TfD where I must—as a result of the format—argue these changes pass/fail rather than talking through the merits of different approaches. Please, use the talk pages and talk about your plans (and I'd appreciate if you ping me there), so I and others can comment and work with you rather than this adversarial-feeling approach. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 07:14, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hhkohh (talk) 07:38, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't fully understand all the issues here but seeing some concern and controversy over how this is being handled. Recommend best worked out in a talk page discussion where ideas can be hashed out among stake holders, then implemented and finally the formality of a TfD. -- GreenC 15:02, 28 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template:People who flew to the Moon without landing

No article on the subject. Not a suitable intersection for a navbox. Might be more suited to a category, if it doesn't break WP:OC rules. If it is kept, only the people should remain, not all the superfluous information, which is not suited to navboxes. --woodensuperman 16:00, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox D&D creature

Propose merging Template:Infobox D&D creature with Template:Infobox fictional race.
D&D creatures are not specific characters, but a race or species which {{Infobox fictional race}} is setup to handle. |collapsible= and |state= should not be added as the infobox information shouldn't be hidden and shouldn't be long that it needs hiding. |mythical= and |based= are both used for the same thing - and |based_on= is already available in {{Infobox fictional race}}. |wizards_image_URL= should not be included in the infobox and instead should be available in an External links section. |source= should also not be included and should only include the first/last appearance as is done with {{Infobox fictional race}} and |infobox character= - listing every appearance of something can turn into a giant list. If a complete list is needed, it should be done in the article body. Gonnym (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Indianapolis Colts draft navigational boxes

Unused templates. Only incoming links are from each other... Additionally, violate WP:ACCESS. Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 21:45, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Inclined to delete per nom and WP:NOTALMANAC, and unused. Ping to Trut-h-urts man and Yankees10 who created these templates and might be able to shed light on how they are used. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems at least most of these are unused. The templates themself are a problematic though. The years link to other templates, not articles, and the color scheme makes it hard to actually see what is a link and what is a red link. I'm also inclined to delete. --Gonnym (talk) 22:42, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose All of the navboxes should be linked to the pages of the drafted players so I find the claim that they are only linked to each other highly dubious take how the 1998 navbox links to Peyton Manning.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 17:26, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I just went and clicked through on one of them (Template:Colts2008DraftPicks). It is fully linked on all 9 player pages, so to say that all of these navboxes are unused is false. If there are ones that have not been fully deployed on player pages, that is a fixable issue. I have been going through and trying to make sure they are all used, but that will take a while because of the sheer number of boxes that have been sent to TfD here. As far as this entire class of navboxes as a concept, a broader discussion would have to take place at WT:NFL before we should be taking any action there. Ejgreen77 (talk) 03:22, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All of these templates are now fully used. Additionally, any WP:ACCESS concerns that may exist here actually involve a different template, not this one. Ejgreen77 (talk) 16:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all Fails WP:NAVBOX item 4: There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template.. For example, {{Colts2018DraftPicks}} has no dedicated article, but is a subset of the content at 2018 NFL Draft and 2018 Indianapolis Colts season. Also fails WP:NAVBOX item 5: If not for the navigation template, an editor would be inclined to link many of these articles in the See also sections of the articles. A better argument could be made for something more distinguishing like List of Indianapolis Colts first-round draft picks. This is WP:NAVBOXCREEP.—Bagumba (talk) 20:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See, I have the exact opposite opinion. I really don't see anything special or particularly distinguishing about being a first-round draft pick (as opposed to being drafted in any other round), and I'm not sure why we ever started generating navboxes based upon that particular distinction in the first place. These navboxes show all of the players who were drafted in the same draft class by the Colts in any given year, which, to me, is a much more useful grouping. I would argue that 2018 Indianapolis Colts season is the article that would satisfy WP:NAVBOX #4. As for WP:NAVBOX #5, I would argue that Template:ColtsFirstPick fails that one much more so than Template:Colts2018DraftPicks does. Ejgreen77 (talk) 20:27, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
re: NAVBOX #4, the fact that we need to "argue" about whether it is met by an article named different than the navbox is my usually tip-off of NAVBOXCREEP. I expect it to be obvious, otherwise someone is just churning out cross sections.—Bagumba (talk) 02:13, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
re: the first round picks, my point is that it more obviously meets NAVBOX #4. I wasn't necessarily saying I would keep that either (and that would be for another TfD anyways).—Bagumba (talk) 02:13, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hhkohh (talk) 13:00, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep all, navboxes in active or potential use, editorial decision for editors of the relevant articles whether these should be used or not. —Kusma (t·c) 14:45, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

UKBot

The English Wikipedia does not run this kind of bot-scored competition, so they are all unused with little possibility of use. See also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 19#UKBot {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 17:10, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: As the creator, I need to maintain an English version of the templates anyways since I cannot translate them directly from Norwegian to Basque and Finnish. Of course I can keep the English version somewhere else, but it's quite convenient to keep them here since they are then interwiki-linked, the documentation is easily readable, and it comes with the bonus that the bot can easily be enabled at English Wikipedia if anyone's interested in using it for article contents here. – Danmichaelo (talk) 05:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hhkohh (talk) 07:37, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hhkohh (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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