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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 July 18

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Peterkingiron (talk | contribs) at 16:43, 20 July 2018 (→Category:Fictional volleyball players). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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July 18

Category:African migratory birds

Nominator's rationale: There are a number of problems with these categories. (1) They are named "African ..." etc rather than "... of Africa" which is inconsistent with similar categories (relevant CFD) and slightly misleading. (2) With the current category structure they cause incorrect categorization (e.g. Cape cormorant is in Category:Migratory birds (Northern Hemisphere)). (3) Articles appear to have been categorized regardless of the content of the article e.g. here where the article doesn't mention migration. (4) In previous discussions (example) difficulties with categorizing birds by their migration status have been identified.
Note: I'm proposing a straight delete (rather than upmerge) per the points made by other editors in this CFD for a similar set of categories (mostly created by the same editor). DexDor (talk) 19:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ta - now included. DexDor (talk) 05:29, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional volleyball players

Nominator's rationale: Only two articles in the category. Just not a popular theme in fiction JDDJS (talk) 16:17, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Foo in films --> Films about foo

Nominator's rationale: Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film#Category: Foo in film, rename these categories to make it more clear that they are to be used only in cases where the category is a central focus of the film, not merely an element of it. DonIago (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per nom. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:03, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete merely having a mass murder, a prom, telekinesis, or a rape in a film isn't defining for the film and may not be what the film is "about" by any stretch. Films "about" something suffers from the inherent problem of how much "about" the subject must the film be, and what reliable sources tell us it's at least that amount. Seriously, how many of the films in Category:Proms in films are about proms rather than some scene, perhaps memorable, happens at a prom where the prom is merely the setting for something else arguably about which the film is. Like saying the film Casablanca is about a bar. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:51, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and check articles. Agree to a certain extent with Carlossuarez that the categories may currently contain films merely having mass murder or telekineses etc but not primarily about it. Those articles need to be purged. However I would understand about as being primarily about and a deletion goes too far. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not trying to be overly picky, but if primarily about were used as a recognized meaning of "about" in these sorts of categories, they should never be in more than one "about" category, and what reliable sources are there to tell us what is the primary topic. I recall having a conversation here about this with @BrownHairedGirl: where we bandied about what was the primary topic of the film Titanic: a ship, a disaster, a love story, or as she put it, perhaps best, "hubris". Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:08, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure I agree that a film can't have more than one primary topic, especially if one feels (and I'm not saying you do) that a film can have more than one primary genre. DonIago (talk) 02:30, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I saw this proposal at "Rape in film". A film with a rape scene in it will be fit for "Rape in film", but that does not at all mean that it is a "film about rape". The rape may be incidental to the plot. Same thing for the other categories. Debresser (talk) 20:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please notice that this was discussed at Category talk:Rape in film, and the unilateral redirect by User:MagicatthemovieS mentioned above ("as the latter already exists but redirects to the former") circumvented that discussion, so the discussion was never really concluded. Debresser (talk) 20:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That may have been the case at the time, but the most recent discussion, linked to in my rationale, leans in the direction that just because something occurs in a film doesn't mean it merits being in a "foo in film" category, and that consequently making the category names more clearly indicate that they are intended to be used for primary topics, not just incidentals, was a reasonable approach. Otherwise we could have "food in film" with thousands of entries; I don't think that's what we really want. DonIago (talk) 02:33, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Films scored by John Barry (composer)

Nominator's rationale: redundant. Tijd-jp (talk) 14:02, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:International Shrines of the Roman Catholic Church

Nominator's rationale: "International shrine" - unclear, arbitrary term. No definition or classification explained by any main article. Chicbyaccident (talk) 08:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Roman Catholic shrines

Nominator's rationale: Redundancy. Along with the merging above for convenience. Chicbyaccident (talk) 10:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Roman Catholic missions sui iuris

Nominator's rationale: Per consistency with parent category and entries included in the category. "Missions sui iuris" would perhaps be even more according to the category's entries, but a little precision wouldn't hurt. Chicbyaccident (talk) 08:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fatimid

Nominator's rationale: rename since Fatimid was not a nationality, but a dynasty (see Fatimid dynasty) after which the Fatimid Caliphate was named. The people in the Fatimid Caliphate were actually Egyptians, Syrians, Arabs, Turkic people etc. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:42, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:United Nations non-governmental organizations

Nominator's rationale: rename, the current category name wrongly suggests these are organizations of the United Nations, which is not actually the case. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:52, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename but not as suggested. The majority of the content is national (etc) United Nations Associations, which are organisations whose role is to be cheer-leaders for UN. I am not quite sure what the rest of the content is doing there: are they NGOs recognised by UN? if so, that is a separate category. My preferred target would be Category:United Nations Associations, with anything else purged to somewhere else. This needs more discussion: please relist. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:37, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic London 13:24, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯxplicit 00:07, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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