Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 319

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reply to george caliburn

hi george

im a little out of my depth ivee submitted 6 times and it even though it complies and uses similar pages as a template to ensure compliance it just remains a draft unpublished page

ive read all the wiki help pages but need to speak to someone rather than be led by generalisations from a generic help page

regards RachaelRachael reiko murakami (talk) 19:34, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Rachael. The draft at Draft:Shotokan Karate Union seems to have been declined only once, so I don't know where your 6 submissions were. The reason for the draft being declined was given on the draft page, but you removed that feedback. I have added it back in, as previous feedback doesn't get removed until the draft is accepted and published. The feedback is useful not only to you but also to future reviewers. I notice that your draft has no inline citations, so please read about giving references to published reliable sources. --David Biddulph (talk) 19:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

yes david i have read the links you supplied and read everything everyone has mentioned to me and i have indeed resubmitted it again after watching the video i think i have solved the problem by using the cite which are all from outside sources

i dont wish to upset anyone as i feel i am following instructions to the best of my ability

regards rachael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rachael reiko murakami (talk • contribs) 15:18, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Rachael reiko murakami, don't worry about upsetting anyone here at the Teahouse by asking a lot of questions. The editors here all thrive on that sort of thing, and it's great to see a new editor persisting and a new draft being improved. I have a couple of suggestions for improvements: (1) There are a lot of external links in the body of the article, and this is not allowed in Wikipedia articles; it is considered a form of advertising. You can make a section at the bottom called "External links" and add just a few of the most relevant ones there in a list. (2) You have a lot of references to magazines; this is fine, but each reference should be to a particular article in the magazine that verifies the information in the article. Instead you have a long list of issues and pages all in one reference. Surely all of these wouldn't have the same facts, unless they were copies of an advertisement, which isn't appropriate. Here's an article, Isao Obata, that has some magazine references that you can look at.—Anne Delong (talk) 05:14, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Reply for Anne Delong

At last another female ! Wow there was a popup notice when i logged in saying that there are so few women editors on wiki. well after my current experience thus far i can believe it. so im really glad to get help from another woman.

anyhow, ive taken your advice and addressed the issue of external links and ive removed them ive just left the wiki links in there.

I really didnt have a clue how to do anything on here and apparently still dont. so it has all been something of a shock and a massive learning curve for me. Ive also addressed your second point and ive reduced them and ive specified the articles too, i must say it has cleaned it up and made it much more readable. many thanks for that and you managed do it without overloading an already overloaded individual with "go to here and read this" type of instruction. i know the articles are designed to be helpful but im suffering with overload right now and its getting all too much for me so i do appreciate your input very much as it was exactly what i needed right now. I feel if someone else helpfully comments and has a different approach point of view or advice from the last person that will set me off in a new direction again and i will explode like that character at the airport in total recall. If the page gets rejected again can i ask you to help me redo it, as im not coping very well with it right now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rachael reiko murakami (talk • contribs) 10:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Sure, Rachael reiko murakami, I will help. Just leave a message on my talk page. I can't do it all for you, though, because I know nothing at all about Karate. By the way, there are more women here than you think; some of them just aren't saying.—Anne Delong (talk) 00:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I believe I made a formatting error on my Wikipedia template.JBLongUSA (talk) 00:41, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I am new to editing on Wikipedia, and believe I made an error on my reference section of a template of a page I am creating. In the reference section, the hyperlink for "1" in on the line above the reference. Here is the code.

References

References

Did I edit it wrong (not sure if that is how it's supposed to look). Any help would be appreciated. JBLongUSA (talk) 00:41, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi, JBLongUSA, and welcome to the TeaHouse. I am going to guess that the article you are having the trouble with was Draft:Tyler Hadley, and I think that is now fixed up. There were two problems hitting it. The first one has bitten me more times than I care to admit: one of your inline references (the last one) was not closed properly; it was missing the "<" before the "/ref". The effect of this is that Wikipedia's processor treats everything after that as a continuation of the Reference, and it all goes wrong. The second thing is that you don't need to list all the references at the end. Having put them all at the appropriate places in the text, the Ref list gets built automatically when you put the {{Reflist}} template at the end. Take a look at what I did on the article and I hope it makes sense ... if not, feel free to ask back here.--Gronk Oz (talk) 01:24, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

References

File redirect problem

Hi, Shannon County was renamed Oglala Lakota County however this broke the Template:Infobox U.S. county map because it uses a built up file name "Map of {{{state}}} highlighting {{{county}}}.svg". I tried adding a redirect File:Map of South Dakota highlighting Oglala Lakota County.svg but it does not work? I've seen redirected images before, and I can't work out why this isn't working (just shows as a blue-linked image). Any ideas? Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 17:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi KylieTastic. The file is at commons:File:Map of South Dakota highlighting Shannon County.svg so the file redirect also has to be at Commons to work. I got edit conflicted when I tried to create the Commons redirect. User:AxG uploaded a copy of the file instead. That also works. I have deleted the non-working redirect at the English Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks PrimeHunter and AxG — KylieTastic (talk) 23:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

I added a recent reference and copy edited the article, KylieTastic. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

First time contributor here, trying to add a article on a famous artists here in marin county, having issues with article being deleted.. help

the page is up here= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Giacona

can someone have a look and let me know whats wrong? I've tried everything to make sure the references were satisfied, but nothing seems to satisfy your bots/admins.. HELP!

Rawheaven (talk) 22:53, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Rawheaven. Your references are presented in a sketchy fashion, and I highly recommend that you follow the procedures described in Referencing for beginners. Please be sure that every assertion in the article is backed up by a statement in a reliable source. You have included an excessive number of red links in the article, including links to obscure artistic genres. I recommend that you trim them back. Familiarize yourself with our notability guideline for artists, and include well-referenced information in the article showing that this artist complies. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Several of your external links do not even mention Giacona, and accordingly should be removed from the article. The article in the Marin Independent Journal includes only a single sentence about Giacona. That is what we call a "passing mention" which is not useful for establishing notability. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:49, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I cleaned up a couple of the red links, but that does not address the major issue, which Cullen328 points out. The article needs to establish his notability by referring to what reliable, independent sources say about him. Instead of generic lists of "references" and "external links", use inline references to show specifically how each one supports the notability of the subject.--Gronk Oz (talk) 01:58, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Help with other editors

Is there a way of getting an impartial editor to monitor an article? I have been editing the Foie gras article but running into some curious behaviour such as one editor deleting their (inflammatory) remarks on the Talk page, and another editor attacking my editing methods on the Foie gras Talk page and on my own personal Talk page. I am aware of RfC, but this might be very time consuming. Thanks in advance for advice. __DrChrissy (talk) 19:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello, DrChrissy. Perhaps Wikipedia:Third opinion is what you are looking for. It's simpler than an RfC. I see a fair amount of good discussion on that talk page, and I applaud your decision to replace the controversial reference with another one. The problem in discussions often comes when one or both parties (1) become more interested in being right than in improving the encyclopedia, and (2) take the discussion in a personal direction instead of concentrating on developing a consensus. A third voice can be helpful in either situation.—Anne Delong (talk) 00:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice - that's very helpful. Thanks also for your input on my Talk page.__DrChrissy (talk) 11:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

What does being 'Patrolled' mean?

Hello,

So, I recently got 'patrolled' by a kind fellow,DangerousJXD but I do not know what it is supposed to mean. Can any other kind fellow explain me?

Thank You Komchi^{Let's talk}_{What I have done} 09:49, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Komchi most new pages are patrolled to check they meet the polices and guidelines of Wikipedia. So it just means that someone (DangerousJXD in this case) looked at your page and marked it as being all good. Its just a first line of defence against vandals, trolls, spammers, etc. See Wikipedia:Patrols for more details. — Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 11:07, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lotKomchi^{Let's talk}_{What I have done} 11:28, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Help Creating a new page

Thanks for your time,

I am new here so I don't know what is wrong with this page or how to fix it, Help please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:HJMS

Kanoog (talk) 08:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse Kanoog. The reviewer, Onel5969 rejected your draft because part of it was copied from a copyrighted source such as http://hjms.com/HJMS_en/federate/federate0.php?mode=1&sd=5&hj=2. The way to fix it is to rewrite it in your own words. —teb728 t c 08:42, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

MY page got deleted, that means I lost all that work and must redo everything again from scratch?

Kanoog (talk) 11:22, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Greetings Kanoog. You have suffered the sting of watching your work disappear. It might be helpful to keep a copy of all your draft it's off-line until you know that your work will be staying up on Wikipedia. I'm sorry this has had to happen to you.

  Bfpage |leave a message  11:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Kanoog. I'm sorry you had this happen. You could follow what Bfpage says, but actually it's very rare for anything you put into Wikipedia to get deleted entirely: most times it is still there in the history; or if the whole page is deleted as was the case here, you can ask the deleting Administrator to restore it for you to work on. However, when the issue is copyright infringement, material will not be restored, because Wikipedia cannot allow material that infringes copyright to remain, even in a draft page. RHaworth who deleted the page, might be willing to restore part of the material or send it to you, if they judge that there is something worth saving besides the copyright material. --ColinFine (talk) 12:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Create a page

Hello I would like to know if u guys would be willing to create a page for an author actor and rapper ladell parks Someone been pretending to be him and try'd over and over to create a page about him and failed but if you guys google him or whatever you'll notice he's quite famous he has a new album coming out some time next month but it's also available for pre order now on itunes & google play — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegreatlake19 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Thegreatlake19, and welcome to the Teahouse. You might find somebody here willing to take that up, but if not, asking at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Musicians might find more people with an interest that way. Either way, you can improve the chances of finding somebody willing to work on it if you do some of the legwork yourself. Wikipedia has criteria about whether there can be an article about somebody: "quite famous" doesn't hack it: what we need is that somebody has already written substantial articles about him in reliable sources such as major newspapers or books from reputable publishers. Can you find a couple of articles about him, in major newspapers or magazines? These need not to be blogs or social media, not anything coming from him or his agents or publishers, not iMDB, not just listings or reprints of press releases, but articles that somebody unconnected with him has written about him and published. If you can find a couple of these, there is a good chance somebody might be willing to pick up your request; if you can't, then there is probably no point in anybody spending any time on in it at the moment (maybe next year!). --ColinFine (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

New Article, Sandbox

Hi, I want to create some new articles, but a sandbox already exists of those articles. For example, for one article that I had planned to do---Casey Cavert, I came across a sandbox of that article. Do I need to ask permission from the sandbox user if I can create the article (my own version, not straight from their sandbox) or can I simply upload my article without asking? Also, once I've created my article, can I ask the sandbox user for help or if they are willing to upload some of their information into my article (if I feel the article needs help in certain areas)? Kinfoll1993 (talk) 09:20, 15 March 2015 (UTC).

Hello, Kinfoll1993. I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to: there was a very short article on Casey Calvert, which was converted in 2006 into a redirect to a section of Hawthorne Heights. If you want to write a new article on the subject you are welcome to try, and do not need to ask anybody's permission. (Before you do so, I suggest you look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Casey Calvert, to understand why it was converted last time, and consider in that light whether there are enough sources to justify a separate article; you may need to look at your first article as well, if you're not clear what I mean by 'sources').

If you do decide to go ahead, eventually your new article will have to replace the redirect; but I suggest you don't worry about that at present. Develop your new article in draft space (I suggest using the article wizard and when your draft is accepted, the accepting reviewer will sort out putting it in the right place.

Thanks, but what about for other articles? I mean in general, if there is already a sandbox about an article that I want to create, can I still write the page for that article or do I need to ask the user of the sandbox before I create the page? And when mentioning a sandbox for Casey Calvert, I meant someone made a sandbox for Casey Calvert (adult actress), not the band leader. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 17:22, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Kinfoll1993. You never need permission from anybody to create an article, (though of course if your attempt violates one of Wikipedia's principles, eg if it were a copyright violation or a personal attack, it would get deleted). If you want to work on a draft that somebody else has created, whether in a user sandbox of theirs or in Draft: space, it would be usual to ask them first, though there's no formal rule that you need their agreement. If the issue concerns a draft article for a different subject with the same name, the name clash will only become an issue when the second one is accepted and moved into article space; in which case normally the accepting reviewer will sort out how to handle the name clash. --ColinFine (talk) 21:09, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Need help with tables/rowspan

I am trying to add a column for "OECD Secretary General" to the table on United States Ambassador to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Since the first Secretary General I want to add, Thorkil Kristensen, served through the first 3.5 ambassadors, I wanted to make the rowspan=2 for the first four ambassadors to I could add the second Secretary General in the middle of the fourth ambassador. However, when I change the rowspan to 2 for the first ambassador, the table pushes the second ambassador to the right of the new column, creating a new set of four columns (without a header row, of course). What am I doing wrong with rowspan? Please help/advise. Yomybrotha (talk) 23:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Rowspan can be a pain to work with. I will give it a go. The first three don't need rowspan=2 when only the fourth is split. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:22, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi Yomybrotha welcome to the Teahouse. Can you please clarify what you meant by "I wanted to make the rowspan=2 for the first four ambassadors to I could add the second Secretary General in the middle of the fourth ambassador." It easier if you could tell me whether you want to add another row for all first 4 ambassadors or just 4th ambassador. Anyhow assuming that you only want to add another entry between 4th and 5th entries I'll add a blank row in between those two. Note that you can do the same for other entries by using the same code. Cheers--Chamith (talk) 00:32, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Nevermind, PrimeHunter fixed it before me.--Chamith (talk) 00:37, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@Yomybrotha: Is [1] OK? David Laurence Aaron has "Unknown" as end and I don't know know whether he should go into Donald Johnston who started 06/1996 according to [2]. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:40, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow! That's wonderful! Thank you very much! What was I doing wrong? Yomybrotha (talk) 00:53, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@Yomybrotha: You wrote rowspan=2 in rows which didn't need it. Help:Table has general help but can be hard to understand. rowspan and colspan are html and not specific to wikitext so maybe a Google search can find better tutorials on using them. I don't know exactly what you wrote but suppose it included:

{|class="wikitable" style="clear:right; text-align:center"
|-
| rowspan="2"|1
| rowspan="2"|[[File:JohnWillsTuthill 1945.jpg|75px]]
| rowspan="2"|[[John W. Tuthill]]
| rowspan="2"|October 4, 1961 – October 22, 1962
| rowspan="2"|Career FSO
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2
| rowspan="2"|[[File:John M. Leddy.jpg|75px]]
| rowspan="2"|[[John M. Leddy]]
| rowspan="2"|October 3, 1962 – June 15, 1965
| rowspan="2"|Political appointee
|}

This renders as:

1		John W. Tuthill	October 4, 1961 – October 22, 1962	Career FSO
					2		John M. Leddy	October 3, 1962 – June 15, 1965	Political appointee

10 columns may seem odd but there is a reason. The 5 cells in row 1 are two rows high. Row 2 wants to start in the middle of those cells. But all 5 of those cells are already part of row 2. The following row 2 cells therefore go to the right of the existing cells, so row 2 gets 10 cells in total. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:18, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Uploading an image from Flickr

I found an image of actor Allu Arjun in Flickr here with cc-by-sa 2.0 license. Will it amount to Flickr washing if i upload it? Pavanjandhyala (talk) 08:14, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Pavanjandhyala, doing a quick Google image search on that image turns up lots of hits and the image has no EXIF info so yes in this case it does look like the poster is unlikely to have taken it themselves. So yes I would expect commons to reject it as probable copyright violation by way of "Flickr washing". Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 14:09, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

@KylieTastic: But in that case, we can found multiple copies of free files at Wikipedia in Google search, few being published much before the date of the file's publication in Flickr. What to do in such cases? Even the ones who reviewed them did not raise any objections as such. Please do clarify! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 06:27, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Pavanjandhyala, just because other copyrighted images may have got onto commons by successfully "Flickr washing" does not make it right. In this case the Flickr image was uploaded March 13, 2015 but copies can be found with others of the same set claiming to be published Nov 04 2011 here it was also published here in 2011, and the best find is this one which includes the EXIF camera information saying it was taking in 2011 with a Nikon D90 (not 2012 as your Flickr page says) so likely to be the original source. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 10:57, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@KylieTastic: That means i cant upload that file. I understood that not just this, i cant upload any free image here. That means trying to expand an article is just an utter waste of time which implies i should give up my plans. Alright. Thanks for helping me. I give up! Pavanjandhyala (talk) 11:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@Pavanjandhyala: you can upload free images, its just that they actually have to be free and not stolen. Its usually better to do checks yourself than just upload and have the people at commons check and delete. Unfortunately more fans just repost copyrighted images than take themselves, also if fans take pictures they often unknowing post them copyrighted. Sometimes you can persuade somone on Flickr to change the license. Another option is sometimes you can just ask the person or their management to release some 'free' images. I know the frustration of trying to find 'free' images of some people, even when very famous it can be very hard to locate them. Don't let it get you down, and remember you can still improve the articles your interested with text. All the best KylieTastic (talk) 11:30, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@KylieTastic: It repeatedly proves that getting free images are myths. Thus, i decided that it is better to focus on other articles than that one and leaving it in its present condition. Because no matter how much i develop it and when it passes the result i wanted it to do so, it would be an incomplete one. Instead of leaving my goal incomplete and unfulfilled, i would opt to leave it forever and i am leaving it. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 11:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Pavanjandhyala. You say that if you can't upload pictures, "trying to expand an article is just an utter waste of time". I very strongly disagree with this. Pictures are a nice-to-have. They are no substitute for the fundamental criterion for quality of an article, which is well-referenced text. We are all volunteers, so we spend the time in the ways we want to (including me); but if collectively we spent half as much time on the hard work of improving the references in existing articles as we do on writing new articles and finding photos (and answering questions on the help desk!) Wikipedia would be immeasurably better. --ColinFine (talk) 12:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@ColinFine: I know that and thanks for bothering to respond on this issue. Still, a strong, beautiful and well constructed villa is lifeless without "nice-to-have" paints. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 06:04, 16 March 2015 (UTC)