Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests

Archives

Previous requests & responses

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30
31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40
41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50
51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60
61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70
71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80
81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90
91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100
101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110
111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120
121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130
131, 132

This page has archives. Sections older than 100 days may be automatically archived by .

Legitimate content and discussion on said content being delted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan_Tai_San

I've tried several times to add to this article. It keeps being reverted by the same group of people, and they refer to it as vandalism for some reason. I posted on their talk page asking why, and this was reverted as well and called a "meaningless rant". I believe it's being done because they're using the page as part of their advertising for their kung fu school, so they don't want any references to their competition, even though they're relevant and accurate.

I'm not an expert wikipedia user and I feel like I'm being railroaded by these people. I'm asking for help because I don't know what else to do. Xavierq (talk) 16:55, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I took a quick look. As best I can tell, you'd like to add the name of one person to a list of the subject's students or followers, plus an external link to a Kung Fu studio. If you can find some reliable source in support of the former addition, then it is probably improper for the other editors to remove it. Without a reliable source, it's just information that you happen to know, and shouldn't be included. See WP:OR. (Perhaps some of the other names there should be removed for a similar reason - I don't know.) The school link is, however, inappropriate - as are the links on that page to other Kung Fu schools that add nothing to the understanding of the subject of the article. I removed those, and I suppose we'll see if someone tries to reintroduce them. JohnInDC (talk) 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I added his name back with 5 independent links mentioning him as either a student of CTS or as a training brother of the other men listed as students, as well as video of them together and press releases. His name is the ONLY one on the page with references now, hopefully it'll stay in place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xavierq (talk • contribs) 17:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some of those refs aren't good Wikipedia sources so I removed all but one - it's kind of dicey too but was the best of the lot. (I agree that they all do generally support the edit you made.) JohnInDC (talk) 19:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Logged in today and my edit had been removed from an IP address stating that a one page source with no publisher or date was unreliable. Being that that information is right on the source and that the others on the list have no references at all, I undid his removal and added the date and page number to the reference... if it's undone again I'll post here and ask for more assistance... Xavierq (talk) 13:29, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is frustrating when an editor takes out your contribution, complaining that the cited source is unreliable, yet leaves in wholly unsourced material of the same variety. I added a template to the section suggesting that further citations be found for all the information therein. JohnInDC (talk) 20:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This one is actually bubbling up again, with a series of edits and reverts. With luck it has stabilized but I am making a note here to keep this one from being archived for the next 48 hours or so. JohnInDC (talk) 00:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have removed the tag - not sure what more we can do. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the editors would respect a consensus that consists of more than just me, so if others were to take a look at the dispute and weigh in, it might help. JohnInDC (talk) 17:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First and foremost, the above claim that the article is not sourced is flatly WRONG. In the past the article was flagged for lack of sources and we (the disciples of the late person) made a concentrated effort to provide links. At this moment there is a wealth of sources supporting our claim, some added as recently as this morning!

My contention remains rather simple. I have posted articles by the person in question and about the person in quesiton, published in his lifetime, that list the disciples. There are also external sources, a facebook tribute page maintained by the association of disciples, etc. Thus, we have two occurances. First, CTS himself in his lifetime asserting who his disciples are. Second, after his passing, on one side a large group of these same individuals (ie the ones named in the articles) and on the other side a single person whose behaviour has been very questionable, so questionable that they have been investigated on a martial arts fraud site known as "bullshido"

The ONLY source for this person is an article that is NOT about Chan Tai San, nor his system. It is an article about a wing chun instructor who says he learned something from Kaparos and then claims that Kaparos was a disciple. There is this one rather weak source vs. a MOUNTAIN of other sources all saying something different. I would thus claim they are NOT equal

Nysanda (talk) 14:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[e/c] Could someone else please take a look at this? The basic issue is very simple - should the name of a particular person remain on a list, where the inclusion is (to all appearances) properly sourced. One editor persists in removing it, contending that the circumstances surrounding the sourced article make it clear that the assertion set forth in the article is not true. In my view that analysis runs contrary to WP:Synthesis and the information should remain in the article until a reliable source is found to affirmatively contradict it. Interested editors can skip everything except the (exhausting) discussion that can be found at Talk:Chan_Tai_San#Gus_Kaparos. JohnInDC (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm more than happy to leave the article as is for now (please note that this would mean the other person NOT changing and deleting links as they have tried thus far!) while others take a look. However, again, I find the claim that it is unsourced absurd all sources considered! Nysanda (talk) 14:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

V–J day in Times Square

V–J day in Times Square is a photo by Alfred Eisenstaedt, or anyway one title that's been given to it; and the photo's very close to another by a second photographer. So the article's about one or two photographs. Except that the photos show people whose identity has been disputed and whose actual identity has been fodder for newspaper articles on slow news days; discussion of this has long taken up a large part of this WP article.

So far, so mediocre; but recently an editor has brought in a lengthy -- and in my view tendentious and dubiously relevant -- discussion of a derivative work. Conversation about this discussion, at Talk:V–J day in Times Square has pretty much broken down. Could a third party come and take a look? -- Hoary (talk) 22:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Things are looking up now. Although other editors are of course welcome to take a look and contribute. -- Hoary (talk) 13:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

John Crippen Article

Answered

– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:40, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Mike, I'm trying to get an article up to par, but rather than help me, there's a couple folks that want a quick deletion. I have tried to alk to this "Hoary" guy, but he just flings insults and inapproiate remarks instead of just taking a second look at things. I'm going to stick to my guns with this article, but I do want the article to be acceptable to the community. I guess this is an SOS. What can I do to keep the article on wikipedia? I will make any changes required. Thanks,

--Writer of this article 08:15, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ARRGG this gets frustrating :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnnyswords (talk • contribs) 08:15, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe a copy of the article above can be found at User:Johnnyswords with some discussion about it on the talk page. noq (talk) 08:29, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the major points have been covered by others. You need to use reliable sources, preferably with in-line citations to support specific statements. You should use a user sub-page rather than your main user page for this sort of work. Please read WP:user page. You have been warned appropriately about conflict of interest and dumping large quantities of text on others' user pages. Oh and don't forget to sign your posts. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes. It was me who moved it to the user page, which I agree was not the best place. As I seem to be in Johnnyswords' bad books, I shan't move it further or offer to do so; somebody else is welcome to do the job. -- Hoary (talk) 13:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Link vandalism on the "Sokoban" Wikipedia page

Answered

– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:41, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The company "LetsLogic" continually tries to add their particular Sokoban game clone to the link section on the "Sokoban" game page, no matter how often we from the "Sokoban community" delete the link.

The link in question is this one: http://www.letslogic.com/ The Online Sokoban Community

Despite its name "The Online Sokoban Community", this is just another Sokoban clone, and as can be seen on the "Discussion" page for the "Sokoban" article, it has for years been the policy of the "Sokoban community" to keep the Wikipedia article on Sokoban free from links to any of the thousands of implementations of the game, and the "LetsLogic" website is no different from hundreds of other websites and clones which is at least as - and even more - relevant for the game.

Therefore, please bar "LetsLogic" from their vandalism by whatever means you have at your disposal, e.g., by blocking the article for further editing by all non-trusted editors. Otherwise, it leads to the unfortunate situation that a lot of other Sokoban clone authors will react by saying they should have the same rights to use Wikipedia as a "link farm".

Best regards

Brian Damgaard

Briandamgaard (talk) 10:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)briandamgaard[reply]

When you revert you should warn the editors for adding spam. If they persist, there is some useful information about warnings at WP:SPAM. WT:WikiProject Spam is where you can report persistent spammers. I see many of the additions come from the same IP ranges. I have placed warnings on the most recent offenders' talk pages. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

civility at Template talk:Major cities of Greater China

Unresolved

– discussion stalled at talk page Jezhotwells (talk) 23:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Things seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot at Template talk:Major cities of Greater China. I'm not sure why and I'm not sure what to do. Rather than potentially making things worse by continuing to discuss there, I'm hoping that another editor might step in and provide us with some guidance. Related to the discussion are the edit history at [1] (history of User_talk:Dave1185) and the talk at User talk:Lennlin and User_talk:Readin. Readin (talk) 13:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Having looked at this I feel taht best way to get more input into this would be to open a request for comment. Remember to format the question neutrally. Full guidelines at WP:RFC. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:45, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed content

Answered

– Left a message on user's talk page as well. Fleetflame · whack! whack! · 15:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've been accused of spamming the Aebleskiver (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) page because I posted a link in the 'External Links' section to a page on my site has instructional cooking video & step by step photos & instructions on how to cook aebleskiver. The content of the video is branded, but I feel it is relevant to someone who is trying to figure out what 'aebleskiver' are and how they are made. I've also followed the precedent of the Solvang Restaurant which link to a history of aebleskiver on their branded site.

Copied text External links

   * The Story of Aebleskiver (Solvang Restaurant, Solvang, California)
   * Cooking Tips & Instructional Video (Aunt Else's Æbleskiver, Minneapolis, Minnesota)

End of copied text

I've contacted the guy who has been removing my link to address the situation in person as well, and am hoping we can all just get along.

Chad.gillard (talk) 17:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the WP:SPAM policy applies here and you should not be adding this link. Jezhotwells (talk)

Agreed. This isn't the place for instructional video. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Defamation of character of living persons

I am KENYA MOORE a former Miss USA. Someone is posting many erroneous articles on me specifically regarding my producer history.

Stated: My first producing job was on a feature called Haitian Nights: False, i have been producing for over 10 years. check my IMDB. Second: "many delays were caused by more" FALSE 3. all the nonsense about me making people call me Mizz Moore FALSE THAT IS A NICKNAME that only my closet friends call me 4. i "bounced checks from my bank account to cast or crew". COMPLETELY FALSE. this is obviously someone trying to cause me or my company great harm as it was a business associate that sent me to this site to see the mean things that were being said of me.. 5. we did not spend $30,000 on a party.... all of this is quite mean and disgusting.

i believe this is a person submitting these detrimental false statements that read more like a gossip rag than is completely unsubstantiated. We demand that this user with this anonymous address be banned from editing my page.

thank you

Kenya Moore Thisisme03 (talk) 04:21, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously we have no way of knowing whether User:Thisisme03 is Kenya Moore or not. That said: if you believe any information added to an article is false, challenge it on the talk page of the article in question. --Orange Mike | Talk 04:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the sources given for the previous revision of the section in question immediately after you revised it, and — indeed — the sources don't seem to support much or any of what was written by Rudolphmoise (talk · contribs) a couple of hours ago. I have left a warning for Rudolphmoise to knock it off. Thank you for your diligence, and welcome to Wikipedia. --Dynaflow babble 04:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that 99.170.143.81 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and 99.170.143.157 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) added identical text earlier in August, which got zapped by another anonymous editor in due course. I've added the page to my watchlist. --Dynaflow babble 04:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Turkey

Answered

– RfC started Jezhotwells (talk) 23:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A while when I started contributing to WP and I noticed that Portal:Turkey didn't list Portal:Kurdistan in the related portal's sections. I added it as I felt that Turkey and Kurdistan are very much related too each other. Not just because of the position of the Kurds these days but because the issue of Kurds is one that is one of the top priority's of Turkey today. It got removed 5 times over a period of 11 months by anon Ip's, none of them gave a reason for doing so. So I was able to revert most of them.

On August 24 User:Turkish Flame reduced the amount of portals listed in an attempt to make the main portal page look better. I agreed with him but thought that too many portal that we're related to Turkey had been removed. I added some of the back, but I had trouble getting them centered. I went to him and asked for his help on his talkpage. He helped me very good by centering all the portals. But in doing so he removed the link to Portal:Kurdistan. At first I thought this was an accident and he had somehow forgotten to put it back when he edited the page. So I added it back to the page and thanked him for his assistance.

But right after my edit he reverted me with the reason removing the portal of a region of a neighbouring country. He misunderstood Portal:Kurdistan as being a Portal for Iraqi Kurdistan and not for Kurdistan(which it is). I tried explaining it to him and we had a very shot debate after which he didn't respond to me. I reverted him 3 days later, but shortly after he reverted me again.

So I've come here to see if someone else can be of some assistance. I don't want this turning into a revert war, but I think that Portal:Kurdistan is just waay to related to exclude from Portal:Turkey ~ Zirguezi 17:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well it would seem that the addition of teh Kurdistan portal would be not welcomed by many editors, especially those of Turkish origin. The ethnic conflicts in the region would point that up. There is obviously no consensus at the Turkish portal to include the Kurdistan portal and probably none to exclude it. I see your edit summaries but I see no discussion on the main portal talk page which should be the first place to try to establish consensus. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks a lot, I started one here 12:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zirguezi (talk • contribs)

HSUS -- Animal rights vs. Animal welfare

Answered

– opinions given at talk page Jezhotwells (talk) 23:46, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a dispute occurring over Humane Society of the United States, List of animal rights groups, and Template:Animal liberation. The discussion has been spread across multiple talk pages, but the conversation has been completely copied to Talk:Humane Society of the United States#Animal rights vs. Animal_welfare.

This is a highly charged topic, with many lawsuits and legal initiatives being pushed by animal rights groups with very large budgets. I have tried to document that the Humane Society of the United States is an animal rights group, and supported it with a valid, published reference. As you can see from the discussion, there are efforts to claim that any opposition to the HSUS violated NPOV, despite almost exclusive quotes from the HSUS's web site. Both sides are not being represented, and all involved are clearly biased. However, even downgraded "neutral" language favors one side. –Visionholder (talk) 22:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So what would you like the volunteers here to do? Jezhotwells (talk) 01:33, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I was just going down the list on Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests, hoping other editors might get involved and weigh our actions and arguments to give more feedback. Maybe I should have gone straight to Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal or Wikipedia:Mediation Committee given the HSUS discussion page is filled with fights over this same topic.

So, in short, I'm looking for more feedback. Who's in error? (Me, SlimVirgin, both of us?) And what do the volunteers recommend to resolve this (ongoing) problem.) –Visionholder (talk) 01:49, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I would hesitate to make any judgements about who is right or wrong. As you say many editors have their own personal biases. I have added my opinion at teh artcile talk page. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have made my last post to the article talk page (for now) since I need to dedicate my time to more important matters. I am not considering this issue resolved, and will return to it sometime around January or later. Feel free to continue giving opinions. –Visionholder (talk) 16:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How to add a category and where is the Master category list

Hello

I am trying to add a category to a page like the category of the year in this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett as you can see in the bottom of the page the category 1930 years I would like to add the same category to the following page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasheed_Mohamed_Rasheed with a different year since I know that this person is born in February 9, 1955.

Aslo I recognized that the name is forward from the correct name page the correct name is Rachid Mohammed Rachid and I am 100% sure this is the correct name how this can be fixed

Thank you --Mwarshanna (talk) 11:19, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved the article to a transliteration a lot like the one you suggested, Rachid Mohamed Rachid, which is the one used by his own agency (no transliteration is "the correct one"; all are inherently flawed). We have no sources to tell us his date of birth, and thus cannot add it to the article. If we did have a source, then we would add him to Category:1955 births. The article currently has no reliable sources, and reads like a resume. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:39, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accusation on talk page

User:Nesbit (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) An anonymous editor who is apparently concerned about an AfD I created at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jose_Fadul, has made a nasty accusation on my talk page. I'm wondering what I should do to avoid future personal attacks, and to resolve this situation. Thanks for your assistance. Nesbit (talk) 15:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let's assume that it's the same person on all of the IPs. You can use {{uw-npa1}} to warn against personal attacks.--Unionhawk ^Talk ^E-mail 15:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{uw-npa2}} is for a second warning, {{uw-npa3}} for a third, {{uw-npa4}} for a final warning, and WP:AIV if he persists after that.--Unionhawk ^Talk ^E-mail 15:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Where should I put the templates, on the anonymous editor's talk page? If it appears to be the same person from different IP addresses, should I increment the warning level even though the IP address is different? Nesbit (talk) 16:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You could do that and if this continues file a report at WP:Abuse reports reporting the IP range. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Posting valuable information -- need advice, help and permission

Although I first submitted this directly to Wikipedia, I was redirected here. I have a disagreement with User:Hu12's tactics, and decisions to delete my posts. I am not here to spam.. and understand why it may be perceived that way. However, I ask that you all help me and reconsider this moderators decisions.

First, to explain my unique expertise and contributions. For 13 years, I have filed more Freedom of Information Act requests than almost any other person (In excess of 3,000). I have amassed well over a half million pages of declassified government and military documents from the U.S., most of which are not found anywhere else in the world. They are declassified for my request, and sent to me. (This is verifiable, and heavily sourced on the internet by major media outlets)

I run the largest database of declassified documents in the world at www.theblackvault.com I felt, since a lot of this information is NEW and NEVER BEFORE SEEN, it would be a benefit to Wikipedia. So I learned how to edit. Although a couple years ago, I only added links, and I realized this was WRONG. I talked with a moderator who helped me understand to write my content into the article, and source it. Which, I am now doing, or was.

Now, User:Hu12 perceives this as a conflict of interest, and my edits were deleted. I would love to source other sites other than my own if I could, but as I mentioned, these are unique documents not available anywhere else. I would love permission to add these records, that anyone can verify. It is rare, valuable and needed. Rather, I get form letters and rude responses.

I know that it could be perceived as spam, but it isn’t. I do not make money by linking to PDFs as the source for my edits. Not a single penny. These pdfs of the documents are used only as sources, and I am rarely adding external links. It is frustrating, as I would think Wikipedia would want this information (which is 100% real and verifiable) rather than some of the other silly sources which I have seen referenced.

I hope someone can help me. I do not hide behind nicknames - anyone can Google my name and see my contributions and press regarding the archive. It is a unique situation.

Sincerely,

John Greenewald, Jr.

--Johnbv417 (talk) 19:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for posting here. You haven't linked any diffs, so we can't respond to specifics. You might want to mention this at WP:RSN since the reliability and verifiability of links to your site might be a concern. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:33, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

United_States_dollar Information about the deletion is in the talk page. I was told if I continued editing and offered sources to BlackVault.com I would be banned.

--Johnbv417 (talk) 19:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link; this edit looks pretty tangential and I tend to agree with the removal. It doesn't appear to be encyclopaedic content about the subject. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe that was a bad example, and that's fine. Not all of them will be winners :) However, I am no longer able to add any information, even though articles like: Hypnosis, National Reconnaissance Office, Project_CHATTER, and Brüno have references to my site with information.

Also deleted was information on a released 300+ page document on the Foreign_Broadcast_Information_Service also deleted.--Johnbv417 (talk) 19:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a quick look and the problems are clear.

First of all, you appear only link to your own website, and you've linked a lot to it. Given that your website does not count as a WP:Reliable source, it looks like spamming aka using wikipedia to further your own concerns.
Secondly, you run the website, and therefore there is a conflict of interest. It doesn't matter that you don't earn money from it, you earn attention and free advertising, and that is enough for COI.
Thirdly, if your claim about major media coverage is true, it would (a) be far better to link to those media organisations rather than your own website.
Fourthly, you need to understand the nature of sourcing. You cannot insert primary sources (in this case government documents) as a means of making a point. The relevance and importance of things like government documents is to be judged not by us wiki-editors, but by secondary sources - most commonly academics and reliable media organisations. So you need to cite reliable sources which use the material. Having been cited by a news organisation does not make you a reliable source in itself.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 19:58, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? : Ok, this is a real issue of "realiable source." Ignoring the OR issues for a minute, in principle, FOIA documents can be verified, since the site adds ( based on comments here) no information, the fact that it provides information as a convenience would hardly make it unreliable- any more than google books is unreliable because it copies books for internet usage. If someone from goog added links to google, would you cite COI as a problem? Knowing about a source, happening to be an expert on a topic even, doesn't mean to the sources are bad. Given that the citation could be verified, I fail to see how it can be called unreliable- is there any reason to doubt the claims? Based solely on the statments made here, I don't see a problem citing copies of primary source documents at least if the primary source is documnted. If the original copy is stored with the Ark of the Covenenant( govt warehouse at end of Indiana Jones movie), then a wiki reader is in same situation as with any other dead-tree source. The source is judged on reliability of primary source, a link to an online copy would hardly seem worthy of deletion unless known to be unreliable ( altered or unfaithful copies of primary sources). Is there a wiki policy here? If you can cite google books, why not other copy sites? Providing sources is fine, but adding novel ideas that haven't been noted elsewhere does not contribute encyclopedic content. Some wikipedia editors go off the deep end eliminating primary sources, but wikipedia itself encourages cititions to primary sources where popular press gets it wrong quite often- notably in medicine. Secondary sources are deemed reliable and able to establish notability by being subjectively in line with primary sources and being "popular".I can find no encyclopedic or wikipedia specific reason for avoiding primary sources but it does make it harder to avoid original research. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 19:14, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your reasons for saying huh, as by and large you agree with me. The way that primary sources were used in this instance was not among the acceptable uses you listed, but as original research. Also, don't forget that Google books is usually used to quote secondary material, not primary. The issue here is not the medium, but the nature of the material. Yes, it is very difficult to use primary sources on wikipedia without doing original research, but being a wikipedia editor cannot stand in place of having a career in academia or (serious) journalism. There are limits to what we can do that do not apply to those with proper credentials.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 23:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think this was meant to reflect my lack of understanding without really implicating your post so much as I only skimmed it. I guess I generally do have something against credentials- maybe personal, maybe just academic attitude. Appeal to credentials is always ad hominen even if not an "attack." Often qualifications become interest conflicts that aren't appreciated etc. Track record of course is often related and you can argue for experience etc but the reliability of any secondary source relates to accurate "usage" of primary sources. So, if you can go to the primary source you don't have so much to count on reliability of secondary source once you have notability which AFAIK can't come from isolated primary sources. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 00:02, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is, as we are not (as wiki editors) qualified to judge, we have to rely on those who wikipedia considers qualified, and who publish their opinions in appropriate places. In this case, appeals to credentials are not ad hominem, but part of the foundation of wikipedia. I certainly don't mean to attack the owner of the site as somehow inherently worse than your average journalist or academic (I'm an academic and I haven't done anything as exciting or potentially useful as what the Black Vault purports to be), but there is a difference between amassing good primary sources and having your analysis of them permitted on wikipedia without having gone through reliability checks (such as peer review or editorial oversight).VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 01:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Credential-reliant-arguments are inherently "ad hominem", literally so when applied to a human rather than organization, as they address the qualifications, not the argumentation of, the source of the argument. Logical fallacies don't go away because of the side or an argument that they appear to support. The notion of calling a source "reliable" is essentially the same thing. I think we agree on the OR issue, which may in fact be why the citations were removed, but it sounded at least in part as if the verifiability was an issue. And, ok, I'm not sure when you have a presumption of a source being faithful and accurate at making available various sources. Certainly many more independent groups have had an opportunity to check out google books, and it is reasonable to have some level of suspicion for "unkowns" and maybe an appeal to a policy here wouldn't be a bad idea. So, again, I'm not sure we differ much except maybe on the role of credentials in general and for the sake of making an encyclopedia. There is nothing inherently wrong with "ad hominem", depending on your objectives, and in fact many publishers make that their focus :) "AH" may have a place here that it doesn't have in "OR." And, sure, if you are concerned with the site owner being an "academic or journalist" then you seem more concerned about OR done somewhere and that is a different issue from his reliability as an online library which was really my main point. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 11:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake on the Lake?

We have a discussion and a bit of edit warring going on at the Cleveland, Ohio page. The issue is whether "Mistake on the Lake" should be included in the list of nicknames for the city of Cleveland, or if it should be left out of the list and discussed elsewhere in the article with background. There is a lot of discussion of the topic on the article's talk page, but the issue has not yet been settled. Any assistance on how best to resolve the issue would be appreciated. Beirne (talk) 05:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Far as I know, "Mistake on/by the Lake" refers to Cleveland Stadium, not to the city itself. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

However, Cleveland is definitely in the Rust Belt. What's the issue about that? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Except for a couple of token changes one day, all of the editor's changes have been negative toward Cleveland, leading to suspicion of POV. A less pejorative term than Rust Belt would be Midwest. --Beirne (talk) 12:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be enough RS clearly to support Cleveland itself as the mistake on the lake, as well as the stadium (there's a wiki disambig page doing just that). What is the problem with including the nickname in the list and being discussed? VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 06:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is more detail on the talk page for the article, but the concern is that just putting a derogatory term like Mistake on the Lake in a list along with more neutral terms like Forest City would cast Cleveland in a needlessly negative light. For good or for bad, some readers consider Wikipedia authoratative, and including the phrase in with the nicknames without an explanation of its background would lead people to believe that it is a regular nickname and not an insult. The phrase is in the article where it's origin is discussed, so the term is not being hidden. What I'm concerned about is that putting the term in the nickname list would have the effect of codifying it as a nickname. --Beirne (talk) 12:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see a source that could determine when (or if) someone started calling the city itself "the mistake on the lake", as opposed to merely the since-demolished stadium. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And for comparison, New York City is sometimes called "the big horse apple", and Las Vegas is sometimes called "lost wages" and Indianapolis is sometimes called "Indianoplace", but that doesn't mean those facetious names should be given any prominence in the articles. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake by the lake was originally rooted in events in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It is a colorful phrase and has been picked up for other uses such as the old stadium. The term is used rarely nowadays to disparage Cleveland, but has become a catch-all epithet that seems to mainly be directed at the non-LeBron sports teams. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 15:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) To clarify, the issue is not whether to include either the reference to the Rust Belt or Mistake By the Lake --Rust Belt is even in the lede and MBTL is included in the body. A main issue is whether Rust Belt should be mentioned in the article's very first sentence and whether MBTL should also be elevated to the lede. The editor who, IMHO, is creating the problem has been warned about 3RR (which he deleted from his talk page -- certainly his right) and has been blocked three different times for disruptive behavior on other articles. I agree with Beirne that it appears the editor is intentionally trying to pull down a well documented Feature Article by over-emphasizing the negative. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 15:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FYI This is what the article says about the term in the body of the article: The city's nadir is often considered to be its default on its loans on December 15, 1978, when under Mayor Dennis Kucinich it became the first major American city to enter default since the Great Depression.[16] National media began referring to Cleveland as "the mistake on the lake" around this time, in reference to the city's financial difficulties, a notorious 1969 fire on the Cuyahoga River (where industrial waste on the river's surface caught on fire), and its struggling professional sports teams.[28] The city has worked to shed this nickname ever since, though in recent times the national media have been much kinder to the city, using it as an exemplar for public-private partnerships, downtown revitalization, and urban renaissance." Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 16:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I need some help

I feel like I have been treated unfairly by several editors, one in particular, who are pushing a specific POV for an article. The article is West_Ridge_Academy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and the editor dominating the editing process is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Storm_Rider. This editor is admittedly a Mormon (the subject of the article is a controversial Mormon boarding school), and he/she has reverted every edit I have ever made, invited other sympathetic Mormon editors to revert edits I have made, engaged me in "revert wars" to the point that I have been banned from Wikipedia editing. This rallying of like-minded editors and plain old censorship seems to go against everything Wikipedia stands for, and I believe that the editing/administration process has been abused. I would appreciate it if I could get some impartial advice and assistance for this article - perhaps an administrative action against StormRider, perhaps a limit to the number of LDS Wikiproject editors allowed to dominate this article, perhaps a restoration of my editing privileges (which I don't think that I've abused.) The editors that have been controlling the edits and banning me are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:FyzixFighter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alanraywiki

and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Storm_Rider

I'm not the only editor who feels this way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alanraywiki#biased_user_-_Stormrider

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:William_M._Connolley

I believe all these editors are Mormon and have a vested interest in censoring the article in question, or any articles related to Mormonism.

Thank you in advance --66.74.10.34 (talk) 16:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you by any chance blocked user DoyleCB? In any event, you have been asked to discuss your proposed changes on the article's talk page, you have not (and you were, rightly IMHO, previously blocked for edit warring). We work by consensus here, not by wielding the big stick, so first please attempt to resolve your differences with other editors in the appropriate forum, the article's talk page. And no, before you make any false assumptions, I am not a Mormon so I have no vested interest in this one. – ukexpat (talk) 17:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would mention that typically derogatory information is held to a higher standard for being "Reliable" than information which tends to be more positive ( and people wonder why we have real estate bubbles LOL). "Reliable" no matter how you look at it is subjective and easy to rationalize with whatever biases people bring. If there is a bias here, it does tend to be against most religions and from a personal standpoint I've seen lack of regard for derogartory information create great wastes in many fields including medicine. So, I'm not a mind reader and not familiar with this situation but the above may be some considerations. If you can't resolve an issue with objective arguments and appeal to facts or wikipedia guidelines, sibjective reliability arguments can be difficult. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 18:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

need help w/edit

Subject: Nicko McBrain, drummer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicko_McBrain Tried to add a Utube video link...ended result...Cite error: Closing </ref> missing for <ref> tag. If you can go in and fix this...that'd be appreciated. I'll copy and paste the link below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBbHaC632jg&feature=PlayList&p=804255DE4A2A7945&index=0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.37.228 (talk) 22:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mmmmm that Youtube video is copyrighted material and should not be linked to in this way. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Editor refusing to acknowledge policies

I'm not sure best way to deal with an editor who keeps ignoring policies (especially WP:RS, WP:OR, including removing other editors' tags) with basically the argument "I'm right and you are wrong." He needs some good tutelege. Where's the best place to go to quickly deal with the issue? Just not up to searching around this week. Thanks.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Carolmooredc (talk • contribs) 23:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about Jayjg, that was taken care of here and that decision should stand. I'm glad to see you changed your comments on his talk page as well. If you are referring to Snettie (who signs as Chris Connolly), could you please give us diffs and articles in question, etc? I've taken a cursory look at their contribs but haven't really dug into it. Evidently he's pushing an Orthodox Jewish point of view....could you give us specifics please? Thanks! Fleetflame 11:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, I was talking about someone pushing a minority economics phrase and not getting the point that if you are writing an article about an economic phrase you have to use sources that USE that phrase, not ones that support your WP:OR interpretation of it. And that just because something is used here and there by non-economists or by real economists 70 or 130 years ago, doesn't mean it's relevant today. (Need to find a source that actually debunks it!) Maybe I should just go to WP:OR noticeboard. Was frustrated other day so came here. CarolMooreDC (talk) 02:17, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, WP:ORN might be a good place to take it, but in response to your original question, I would suggest communication with the editor on their talk page or the article's. Especially if the editor is edit-warring ("including removing other editors' tags"), make sure to let him know about the policies he is violating (3RR, etc). If he keeps it up, report him; but direct communication is always the best place to start. Fleetflame · whack! whack! · 17:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Page title change

Can you please change my page to Travis Farley rather than Travisfarley? I can't work out how to change it sorry.

regards

Travis Farley —Preceding unsigned comment added by Travisfarley (talk • contribs) 01:46, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you mean a username change, not a page name change. The latter, in case I'm wrong, would be covered here, but I believe you are looking for Wikipedia:Changing username. No User:Travis_Farley exists, so just add your request there and they'll get it done. Further questions? let me know! Fleetflame 11:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request - addition to RefDesk disclaimers

Answered

– discussion continues at WT:RD Jezhotwells (talk) 23:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At the top of each Wikipedia Reference desk, there is a disclaimer only stating that no medical/legal advice is given, and to ask the requisite professional in that field. I believe the following would be wise as an addition, because I have noticed a fair number of people who dont' seem to understand the vast difference in knowledge between random people and professionals:

"Among other reasons, professionals must be asked any medical and/or legal questions becasue they have years of education and licenses in their repective fields. This qualifies them to answer questions specific to each situation, in ways that random people are not."

I believe this is sufficiently neutral (it doesn't say whether a specific individual is any good), doesn't take up much more space (if people won't read that, they might not be reading anything before posting), and adds to the general quality of Wikipedia by actually explaining what, for some odd reason, seem arbitrary to some people.

Of course, maybe I'm just too rational in my thinking, and it won't cut down at all on problems.

I also thought of replacing "answer questions" with "know how to resolve every situation in a specific way,' fumbled around with wording, then decided that "answer questions" should be enough to explain it to 99% of most readers.4.68.248.130 (talk) 12:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The place for discussion of the reference desks is WT:RD. Algebraist 13:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks; it took a while just figuring out how to get back to where I was, so it's a little confusing figuring out what's where. Eventually I'll probably get an actual account.4.68.248.130 (talk) 15:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Don't forget real estate and used car sales either. LOL. I would just ask you to consider too much zeal here as reliance on credentials still amounts to an ad hominem argument about the quality of a piece of information- and the information is what an encyclopedia is about. Often, even in medicine, qualifications imply a financial interest of some type and that often casts a cloud over the information. Anything that asks people to judge information would be a big plus. Look at all the COI problems with real-life doctors for example. Many professions run as much on an appearance of confidence as anything. I do not want to trivialize clinical diagnosticians- talk about confusing data that is impossible to learn from a book - or the importance of recognized competence with something like a license but much of the background information is quite easy to understand from objective sources( try following some biotech stocks for example where much of the clinical stuff is not all that important). If you consult a COI-source ( a licensed professional) you should at least try to have some idea how to sanity check their results. Certainly we don't want to encourage people to just accept whatever comes from an approved source. 67.166.244.55 (talk) 21:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should just be consise. Something like, "We cannot offer medical advice. Consult your doctor," or "We cannot offer legal advice. Consult a lawyer"--Unionhawk ^Talk ^E-mail ^Review 21:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be a trivial concern but for wiki it may deserve some thought re larger issues. I never bother to read these disclaimers but IIRC early poster mentioned this terse form exists, or some such words. I know when I post in some cases I tell people don't take any advice off of the internet-stock, medical, anything including mine. But I'm always concerned by language that encourages people to demand thought police in any area thought to be too difficult for normal people to discuss or one which puts certain types of knowledge on a pedestal. This is a very real problem in regulatory issues- do you legally mandate more disclosures of scientific and personal information or do you create official uber-people to see some information off limits to everyone else and just trust the experts. An encyclopedia is not a blog or yahoo finance and given prior issues with censorship related to the human body, I'd hate to have more fights in other areas that become special. Now in real estate and other areas, you see people blaming deregulation per se for the problems and not the lack of more complete disclosures to help motivated people make rational choices and verify the judgment of experts with possible conflicts or lack or regard or just having a bad hair day. Freedom of personal decision making is not real common in the world and I woudlnt' just start punting all free thought opps so glibbly. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Madame Jeanette

As I noticed Wiki has no image of Madame Jeanette Chilli's. I have this image and I want to share this on Wiki but I don't know how to upload the image. Can anyone help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Angelvip (talk • contribs) 01:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you look on the left side of the page there are four boxes. In the third one down called "toolbox" there is a link to Wikipedia:Upload. If the picture is one you took yourself then just click on the "my own work" link and follow the instructions there. Don't forget to pick a licence, there is the recommended one but you can pick a different one. Of course the best thing is to upload it at Commons so any of the other projects can use it as well. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 11:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you delete my entry?

Why did you delete my entry for the movie "Clear and Present Danger" ?

The story was based on the Army's Task Force Black. Why was this information removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.22.184.46 (talk) 02:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC) I take it you mean this. It was removed for several reasons. First it was in the wrong place within the article. It shouldn't have been put at the bottom after the references but, if true, should form part of the article. Second, it was in the wrong article. The movie is based on the book and not SOCOM's anti-drug force. So the part you want to add should, if true, be added to the article about the book. Third and most important reason for removal is lack of verifiability. There were no references and it would need them before it is added. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 11:31, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have already posted my issue on a noticeboard. Does that count as editor assistance?

I am interested in escalating through the dispute resolution process for an issue related to the above linked article. However, I already have started a discussion on the NPOV noticeboard. Does concluding the discussion on the NPOV noticeboard count as "editor assistance" in the context of exhausting that option before escalating to "higher" ones? I don't want to forum shop, but I want to make sure I can establish that all "lower" options have been used if the issue continues move through the dispute resolution process.MichaelLNorth (talk) 18:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. From the tone of your post (and I apologize if I am misevaluating), you do not seem interested as much in actually resolving your issue as in merely escalating the conflict to higher levels of dispute resolution. Though I am not sure what your eventual goal is (hopefully not ArbCom), you do not necessarily have to go through every single level. If you believe your conflict could quickly and easily be solved by skipping a level or two, by all means, do it. Now, obviously, this doesn't mean take the issue straight to the top. However, if you believe, say, mediation, would more quickly solve your problem than would going through dispute resolution, you should enquire as to whether it would be possible to go directly to mediation. Intelligentsium 00:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Third opinion needed on Fashion (Heidi Montag song)

Fashion (Heidi Montag song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) An editor has proposed a merge to Heidi Montag or Lady Gaga, and despite that it's been made very clear that this song meets notability per WP:NSONG, we still cannot seem to reach consensus at Talk:Fashion (Heidi Montag song). A third opinion would be greatly appreciated. D.C. Blake (talk) 02:37, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As the editor who has nominated the article i would like to point out that the song was never released officially, has not recieved extensive independent coverage, does not have a cover art and contains a lot of fan-cruft. Heidi Montag as an artist apparently has one lowly charted song but surely the argument that this is sufficiant enough to make her notable and hence "Fashion" deserves its own page is illogical. This information could easily be contained on the artist's own page. There is no clear argument as to why this song itself is notable. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 05:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC))[reply]

OK, please discuss the merits of the case either way on the article talk page, not here. You may get editors from here looking in or you could request a third opinion at WP:3RD. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

wikipedia dead tree source verification and copyright

I've been threatening to dig up some dead tree sources from several decades ago, probably magazine articles. I'd like to cite these and provide online verification. Fair-use would cover a short quote but I'd like to scan the pages and send to wiki for at least internal usage. Anyone know copyright issues or wikipedia issues here? I guess I could upload the page CIA-style or like google books and blank out most of it except for a short fair-use part but in the past wikipedia has objected to even short excerpts. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need to upload scans for verification purposes. The essence of WP:V is that the source must be capable of verification, which in this case would mean someone else getting access to the materials eg in a library and checking for themselves. It does not mean that you have to make those sources available for verification. Millions of our articles refer to books that are not available on line and we assume good faith when the editor using them cites them as a source, because theoretically another editor could find those books in a library and check them. We do not require books to be scanned and uploaded for verification. The same applies in this case, in my view. – ukexpat (talk) 17:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's right, it is the original article or book that is what is cited. Putting source sources on-line sounds like a good idea but is highly likely to be a violation of copyright. Another issue with on-line scanned images of artciles which I have encountered frequently whilst doing GA reviews, is that it is not possible to verify whether the on-line scanned version is a true copy of the original. If the source is a Google Books or JSTOR or Lexis-Nexis then we can assume good faith but on other sites that is not so. Out of copyright or GFDL material can be hosted at WikiSource. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not claiming it would hold up in court, just it is easy to type ( witness the amount of vandalism ) but harder to forge images ( hardly difficult, but in the absence of an obvious COI and motive not as likely ). OK, it is hypothetical at this point as all I have found is old Readers' Digests I can't find the radio magazines. I'm still not sure I understand how that would be against fair-use and when easy seems like it adds a little bit of credibility. If nothing else, you may provide more context up to fair use limits that wouldn't make it into an article- certainly volunteer spare time edits are likely to have context issues even if literally accurate quotes are taken. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 19:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll say it again. Scanning old magazines and books and putting them online somewhere is likely to be a violation of copyright AND does not guarantee the authenticity of the source, so it is not a viable idea. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lama Pai article

I am trying to clean up, source, and save this article. I am a real wiki newbie and so it is a bit intimidating as far as editing (though I have written a lot about the subject and can provide the info at least!). Would anyone like to help? Comment? Assisst? Particularly with style and the tags and so forth Nysanda (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

* Section moved to bottom. Fleetflame · whack! whack! · 19:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason, I have recently been seeing the Article Creation Wizard around a lot lately. Maybe it could help you? I would be willing to assist with technical matters, but I am not familiar with the subject of the article. Intelligentsium 02:08, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please help!

I have a dispute with a administrator by the name of "DeLarge." I've spent the last hour trying to figure out how to report a admin. This is not very user friendly to please any help is greatly appreciated. He is clearly showing bias on his deletion on multiple articles, and honestly he is being plain ignorant to me in the talk section. I would like to get this resolved and have a mutual edit be placed on the article MIVEC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Please email me, or respond here. I would be very appreciative. Justin5117 (talk) 00:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why aren't you discussing this on the article talk page? It looks like a content dispute to me. IF there is a discussion on a talk page then it might be reasonable to ask for a third opinion. You are not using edit summaries to justify your edits and neither is the other editor. It is difficult to offer any opinions without an active discussion. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"You are not using edit summaries to justify your edits and neither is the other editor."

Sorry, but just to correct you, at the beginning of this slow-burning edit war two years ago I repeatedly left edit summaries to explain myself, here, here, here, and here. After the fifth reversion of the redundancy, I tried to communicate with the editor directly on his talk page, since I wasn't sure someone of his intermittent editing habits would even notice a talk page comment. He replied there, but made no further edits to MIVEC for eleven months. (You may also wish to note that when I left a message on his talk page, I recommended talk:MIVEC as a good place to discuss the matter.)

When the latest round of back-and-forth editing began, I used popups to revert bacause I believe there's a limit to how many times I should have to explain what a tautology is. He then came to my talk page to comment, and out of courtesy I kept the conversation where it was, rather than confuse an inexperienced editor by migrating it elsewhere. --DeLarge (talk) 23:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NEED RESPONSE TO MY QUERY, PLEASE

Hello, A license was submitted on 3 Sept. for profile of John Prendergast deleted due to license absence. Profile has not yet been reinstated and my emails about this to permissions have not been answered. Just need to know when profile will appear on wiki and/or if there is a problem.

thank you, Nell Jespah (talk) 00:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying that you have followed these procedures here: Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. Did you receive an OTRS ticket number or any reply? 7 01:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Editor search inquiry

It seems like that Wikipedia also allows anyone to search the editor(s) of a particular sentence or paragraph of a given page without browsing all the history of the edits consecutively.

I do not know how to search this in the WP special search. Does anyone know? Thanks. Couchworthy (talk) 02:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To the best of my knowledge, that capability does not exist in the project's current internal software, although someone somewhere may have designed some sort of external tool to do so. You can find Wikipedia's special search functions here. Just click "Advanced." --Dynaflow babble 02:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is WikiBlame along the lines of what you're looking for? Intelligentsium 02:05, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IDP Education Australia

Resolved

– article speedily deleted, (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion) Jezhotwells (talk) 19:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The title of this page is 'IDP Education Australia. This should be called only IDP Education

Reasons:

- Confusion. There are two different businesses: IDP Education and IDP Education Australia. The article above is based only in IDP Education - IDP Education and IDP Education Australia are different entities and bodies, which is proved checking their business number from the official site www.abr.business.gov.au. They have different ABNs.

1. IDP Education Pty Ltd ABN is 59 117 676 463 2. IDP Education Australia Limited ABN is 63008597831

Can you kindly correct the title in the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDP_Education_Australia. It is not editable!

I do consider I should not add a new entry for IDP Education.

Thank you, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsmgl (talk • contribs) 06:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like a suitable candiate for deletion to me. Jezhotwells (talk) 07:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And the deleting admin agreed. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel 11

Hi I entered a new paragraph at the bottom of the page about an alternate interpretation of this passage that places the fulfilment in the 20Cth century. About two hours later it was just deleted with no comment whatsoever. I don't want to get into a fight with the individual that just deleted it (User Erbce) but also don't believe that wikipedia is served by only representing a single view on the subject even if it is the majority view. What should I do if anything? There is no point me rentering the paragraph if he is just going to keep deleting it. Any assistance appreciated - thanks 59.100.10.67 (talk) 08:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Did you get your addition from a reliable source?. If so, you need to credit that source. By the way, the editor did make a comment - the edit summary says "original research". In other words, it looks like you're adding your own thoughts rather than those of an established, published source.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 08:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The same goes for your additions to Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, which have also been deleted. Wikipedia only reflects published, reliable sources, not the opinions of its editors.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 08:24, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ok thanks for explaining that. So I can only refer to material from published books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.100.10.67 (talk) 09:05, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OR is usually less subjective than determining the reliability of a source for the claims substantiated from that source. If you can find sources on less popular interpretations, there may be credibility or "fringe" arguments. In some cases with testable claims, like perpetual motion machines, you have different debates than with predictions about the future. Generally the concern is documenting the state of human thought on a topic, not deciding merits. FWIW. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 12:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Wellesley: Irish or not?

There is an ongoing debate as to whether Arthur Wellesley's identity should be defined as Anglo-Irish, or simply Irish. There are some important contributions to the discussion. The main points for defining him as Irish are 1. He was born in Ireland 2. His family had been in in Ireland for at least 5 centuries before his birth. 3. His family shares a similar heritage with some of the most common Irish family names Burke, Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, Barry etc.

Main points defining him as Anglo-Irish: 1. He was a member of the Protestant ascendancy. 2. He did not engage with/or affiliate himself with Irish peasantry. 3. He went to high school in England.

I can not argue with any of the points above which support an Irish definition. The points which support an Anglo-Irish identity are, i believe, weak and irrelevant. Even if he can be defined as anglo-irish (although see Dunnettreader's posts), being anglo-irish, by anyone's definition, is still being Irish. At Wellingtons birth Ireland was a country, defined as the Kingdom of Ireland, and with its own parliament in Dublin. So I believe we can conclude that Wellington based on the status of the country at the time, the location of his birth, and the geneology of his family.

Can you please provide help with this current impasse?

This reliable source [2] uses the term Anglo Irish. If you can find some sources describing him as "Irish (Anglo-Irish)", then i have no problem with the change being made, but it does not sound quite right to me. Saying Anglo Irish clearly does not ignore the fact he was Irish, it ofcourse is also stated in the introduction he was born in Dublin. BritishWatcher (talk) 22:36, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning Wikipedic Article Josip Broz Tito

I’m requesting an Editors Assistant on the Josip Broz Tito article. I wish to add a Legacy Chapter to the article in question. I have been refused to be allowed to do this and have had interaction with other editors on the Talk:Josip Broz Tito. Qualified references such as Encyclopaedia Britannica and Tim Judah of the BBC (The Times & The Economist) are being met with heavy resistance! Consensus style of work is not present here. Also other qualified professional references from USA, Great Britain and Croatia are not being taken into account:

1. Jasper Godwin Ridley (1920 –2004) was a British writer, known for historical biographies. He was educated at Magdalen College, University of Oxford & Sorbonne. He received the 1970 James Tait Black Memorial Prize. He trained and practiced as a barrister & professional writer.

2. Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963 B.A London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Center Associate and Davis.

3. David W. Del Testa has a Ph.D. in History from the University of California at Davis.

4. Rudolph Joseph Rummel is a Professor Emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii; and

5. Ivo Goldstein a Professor at the University of Zagreb & former Director of the Institute for Croatian History of the University of Zagreb.

The article it is not written from a NPOV and needs some updating. It is more or less a relic from the cold war. Important factual information is missing, thus making it biased and lacking in objectivity. The result is an overall in-balance of factual information. Also I would welcome assistance here since I lack experience. Sir Floyd (talk) 00:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can't create a title for "Contributory causation"?

Tried to create a title for the concept of "contributory causation," with a redirect to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality#Necessary_and_sufficient_causes but got a message that such a title was blacklisted. Must be a mistake. Could an admin please create this redirect for me?