Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts

Are photographers navboxes applicable for visual arts parent categories

For example, the best example would be {{Ansel Adams}} (and maybe the worse, {{Jessica Lange}}, where I have removed the parent category Category:American artist navigational boxes, and then stopped after a few to bring the question here. I've been assuming these categories are for painter and sculptor templates, keeping the categories limited to the ancient arts, and not for related visual arts (filmmakers, photographers, architects, etc.). Opinions? (I'll ping Mistico Dois, who does great work on visual arts navboxes). Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

For example, and this is what I'm basing it on, you wouldn't add Category:Deer in art to all the photographs of deer on Wikipedia although, if a painting or sculpture prominently features a deer, it would qualify. I reverted my edits and added back the category to the navboxes pending this discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:55, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Just one more thought. Would publishing a book of photographs qualify the navbox in the "American artist navigational boxes" category, i.e. {{Jessica Lange}} above, and the navbox of filmmaker. {{Larry Clark}}. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:05, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

The category of photography as a visual art has been established for a long time, in my opinion and I suppose most art historians and critics would agree with me, despite the fact that it only appeared in the 19th century and only had the status as an art form recognized in the 20th century. H. W. Janson landmark History of Art (1962) already includes photography. You can see by yourself all the museum categories where the historical photographies from art photographers appear, like Alfred Stieglitz, Henri Cartier-Bresson, etc. Architecture is also a visual art of course, if you remember Giorgio Vasari's historical Lives of Artists, it is dedicated to architects, painters and sculptors. But I think since architecture is very different from painting, sculpture and photography, it would make more sense to have a specific category for architects by nationality. I think when we reach the number in 50 in the Architect navigational boxes, I will start that category. Regards.Mistico Dois (talk) 18:28, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

About the individual categories. I think if someone becomes known or as an important work as a photographer it does qualify themself for the photographers category, even if they are more better known in other category, like actors or filmmakers. Jessica Lange, for example, does have several photography books published and they have been critically acclaimed.Mistico Dois (talk) 18:32, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree it's a visual art, and that photographers belong in the photographers category. My question concerns adding photographer's navboxes in artist navbox categories (i.e. Category:American artist navigational boxes). A deer in a photograph, would that photograph be within Category:Deer in art (categories and navboxes are two-thirds of the "Lists, categories, and navboxes" trifecta). My opinion would be no to both, as a navbox categorized as an artist's navbox brings to mind painters and sculptors and, to myself at least, nothing else. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:08, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I have to disagree. I think the categories concerning Category:Artists by nationality should include painters, sculptors, but also other visual artists, like photographers, engravers, installation artists, artistic designers, for example. About what you mentioned concerning Category:Deer in art, I think it would make sense to create in a near future a category for Category:Wildlife photographs, like there is already Category:Landscape photographs, for the photographers who have worked in particular concerning animals, like Peter Beard and Sebastião Salgado, among others. There are still very few entries concerning individual photographies, compared with paintings and sculptures, so I think its still to soon for that.Mistico Dois (talk) 22:21, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Larry Clark published a book of photographs. That's one entry as a photographer in his navbox, yet his template is in Category:American artists navigational boxes. Templates of artists (I mean painters and sculptors) should conform to the unofficial five-entry rule (many now don't), but Clark, for example, has one entry relating to his photographs. Not enough to fit the category, even if it is open to photographers, which I argue it shouldn't be because that makes way for filmmakers and others to be similarly linked. Painting and sculpture are hands-on formed works of art, a photograph of a bowl of fruit isn't a still-life painting of a bowl of fruit nor should it be classified in a similar manner. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:05, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Larry Clark does have an important and controversial photographic work, with several books published. He also appears at the International Center of Photography website: [1] I understand your point but there are also other templates with at least five entries, and this sometimes includes only one artwork. I am doing my best to expand them when I locate them. Thats why I always try to start a template with at least six artworks. I mantain my opinion that the artists by nationality categories should include visual arts as usually understood in art history. Cinema is also an art form but of a different kind, thats why they have their own templates. Visual artists who work in cinema and painting or photography can appear in both categories, like for example Template:Julian Schnabel.Mistico Dois (talk) 03:14, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Listings of photographers or photos in Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts/Article alerts seem nonexistent, so some lines remain drawn on Wikipedia between photographers, painters, and sculptors. All I'm saying is that one of those lines could be keeping things like Category:French artist navigational boxes exclusively to painters and sculptors. I'm sure Claude Monet might have taken some very good photographs if he'd a mind to, but didn't, and letting Michaelangelo loose with a camera would have given the world some iconic photographs. But turning that around, notable photographers have always had access to paints and sculpting tools but I can't think of a one who could actually use them well enough to create a well-known work. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:46, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Paint mixing

I have promoted Paint mixing to mainspace. Please feel free to improve however you can. Cheers! BD2412 T 21:41, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Added The Song of the Lark

Have added The Song of the Lark (painting) in case anyone would like to fill it in, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Feedback on draft for artist Laura Berman

Hello member of WikiProject Visual arts. I was hoping someone could offer feedback on a draft I created about Laura Berman, a monoprint maker based in Kansas City, Kansas at User:W12SW77/sandbox/Laura Berman I have a COI as a paid consultant for WhiteHatWiki, which was hired by Laura Berman. Thank you for your help!W12SW77 (talk) 17:54, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

It comes across as okay to me, based on Berman having works in several public gallery collections and also some evidence of passing WP:GNG with significant coverage in reliable secondary publications. Sionk (talk) 22:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Splitting discussion for Zinc oxide

An article that been involved with (Zinc oxide ) has content that is proposed to be removed and moved to another article (Zinc white). If you are interested, please visit the discussion. Thank you. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:33, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Charles Billich

I saw a mention to this article on a page I just deleted and decided to check it out. The article is tagged for being like a resume and only has one source. Apparently, this artist is "award-winning" and prominent in Australia but aside from a few short articles in an online search, I mainly came across sales/auction/gallery sites when looking for more information on him. I originally went to WikiProject Biography for the Arts talk page to look for help but it looks like that task force is inactive so I came here. Not sure whether this article can be improved or should just be PROD'd as I'm not familiar with artist biographies on Wikipedia. Just posting here in case there are editors who are more experienced with working with artist's websites and are able to judge notable artists from those who just have a good marketing team. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Commons trying to pull File:Dignity (34922267671).jpg from the Dignity statue page

Wouldn't fair use per "essential to describe the page" be a criteria for saving this beautiful photograph of a statue? Or can someone transfer it from Commons to Wikipedia? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Can someone please upload this photo to English Wikipedia and fill out a fair use exception for the Dignity (statue) page, I'm not able to do so. Thanks. Being told at commons that it will be deleted there. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:14, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn: Done. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 12:34, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I have no idea if it will last here if commons gets rid of it, and hopefully the sculptor himself can arrange permission (I left a note at the commons deletion page about possibly making that arrangement). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Artworks damaged, destroyed or stolen in the 2023 Brasilia attacks

New article: Artworks damaged, destroyed or stolen in the 2023 Brasilia attacks ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:21, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Cartoon painting

Please, can you help me to find the name of this painting? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.235.244 (talk) 09:37, 17 January 2023 (UTC)