Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction

Real-world perspective

This section is far too long, and concentrates too much on persuading editors what is bad about in-universe view, rather than just telling them not to use it. Probably it was written decades ago when there were still active arguments about how fiction articles should be presented. Now, all that's needed is to tell editors to use a real-world perspective, and to give some examples of what to avoid. MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't sure what to remove. Do we even need the bullet-point lists? 183.89.250.246 (talk) 13:56, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe just a few consolidated examples. It would also be less confusing not to mix up what's expected in the Plot section and what's expected elsewhere. MichaelMaggs (talk) 15:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm now thinking that it would be best to remove the entire bullet-point list from MOS:INUNIVERSE, as those examples are almost all either redundant or not very helpful. If anyone thinks that a particular item from that list is helpful, and it is not redundant to something else on this page, please point it out. 183.89.250.246 (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we can remove the list entirely as I have seen all of those cases in misuse of plot summaries and the list. Trimming is fair but should stick to a few key cases. — Masem (t) 16:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

This could almost replace that entire section. It would remove a lot, but much of that is redundant to things that appear elsewhere on the page.

All Wikipedia articles should use the real world as their primary frame of reference. As such, the subject should be described from the perspective of the real world. With fiction, this means not writing from the perspective of the fictional world. Many fan wikis and websites treat fictional worlds as if they were real, but this should not be done in Wikipedia. An in-universe perspective can mislead the reader, who may have trouble differentiating between fact and fiction within the article.

Keeping a real-world perspective also means limiting the amount of detail regarding the fiction itself. An article about a fictional character should not necessarily include the kinds of details that would appear in a biographical article of a real person. Backstory should be kept to a minimum, not treated as actual history might be. Compulsive Brainstormer (talk) 22:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Will need to get back to this after Christmas. MichaelMaggs (talk) 12:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

A month later, nothing has gotten done here. Perhaps it would be best to stop worrying about "consensus" or whatever and just focus on improving the page. For the sake of users seeking guidance who find this bloated mess. 168.194.75.98 (talk) 10:40, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm still interested in improving this, though I am volunteering more than full-time on other things and sometimes Wikipedia takes time. It's more important to do it properly than to do it fast. MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:02, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I should note that the IPs you've been talking to is a notorious ban evader who's been trying to shorted this page over and over through different accounts and IP addresses, and annoyingly this kind of editing taking away from any actual cleanup that might be needed. Harryhenry1 (talk) 08:30, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

When I have time to get back to this (not in the next few weeks unfortunately) I will as always be making my own decisions. MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2025 (UTC)