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The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Dbromage

[edit]
Suspected sockpuppeteer

Dbromage (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets

Thin Arthur (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
The Null Device (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)


Report submission by

Tezza1 16:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

Sock/Meatpuppet Cooperation - User Dbromage, suspected sockpuppetry, voting fraud, COI and self awarding of Barnstar. I have listed my concerns here and on the COI notice board as I believe there has been abuse and COI. User:Dbromage behavior warrants an investigation. If my allegations are judged to have basis, it goes a long way in explaining the editing warring, sock/meat puppetry, and general un-civility, which has occurred in Railpage article over the past year. Having entered into a good faith discussion with a editor who admits a COI with the Railpage article (see 3-4th November 2007) [1], I've finally become sick and tired of this user Dbromage and his sock and meat puppets. User:Dbromage I suspect is using multiple sock puppets Thin Arthur, The Null Device and possibly two other IP addresses (see end) to edit, vote and discuss changes to the Railpage article and many other articles (refer evidence) here at Wikipedia. Reading the Railpage article the name Dbromage seems to match as the subjects founder - David Bromage. I’m particularly disturbed that the user has awarded himself and an Administrator [2] a Barnstar using his Thin Arthur sockpuppet (a first on Wikipedia?). [3] The user has also given false and misleading information to an Administrator User:Durova in order to conceal his identity. [4] [5] This user has used the Thin Arthur and Null Device sock puppets and has not disclosed his conflict of interest when discussing Railpage article content. [6] [7] [8] User:Dbromage would have a difficult case against ignorance of COI guidelines as he has advised others on the issue using the Thin Arthur sock puppet. [9] And I consider the be the more serious, voting against its deletion and making comments against the articles deletion. Afd #2, Afd #3, Afd #4. The user has also attempted to take action against myself when there is disputed content on numerous occasions without disclosing his/her conflict of interest in the Railpage article. [10][11] [12] I also suspect that the user is also responsible for meat puppetry using names such as FailpageMustGo, “DFC free Oz” and “Fundie Busters” using throw away IP addresses in a deliberate attempt to stymie debate and discredit any further nominations for the article’s deletion. Look at the timing of the nomination of Afd #4, user:The Null Device and 59.167.77.190. If these allegations are proven, how will it affect the status of the Railpage Article? as Dbromage through his sock puppets have heavily edited the article. See 23rd July 2007 [13]

  • Sock puppet evidence by Tezza1

Please look at this; [14] I consider Thin Arthur and 150.203.56.19 to be the same. IP 150.203.56.19 seems to be an in adverted error of not logging into Wikipedia by user:Dbromage.

If you agree then, please consider this Revision history of Deborah Lawrie

The article was created by Dbromage and then was amazingly edited on the same day by 150.203.56.19. It would be shear stroke of luck that another user with as much knowledge on a remote subject would stumble over it within a matter of hours, and providing finishing references to Dbromage edits. True, there is a two-hour break between edits. It looks as though the same editor is at work.

Please refer to the following link where one user corrects the other. Again, it looks as though the same editor is at work [15]

If your are still unsure, there is more evidence linking 150.203.56.19 to User:Thin Arthur. These are just a few, there are some more in no particular order which I’ve put on my talk page. If you fancy yourself as a Wikisleuth, you can start here [16]

Edits made within minutes

Evidence linking Thin Arthur, 150.203.56.19 to Dbromage

Some other examples;

Thin Arthur supporting Dbromage’s vote in an Afd - there are more on my talk page

Thin Arthur, edits Dbromage's contribution.

Now look at user Thin Arthur’s edits with The Null device

Null Device and Dbromage

It seems to me the same user editing in the same manner, circumstantial evidence, maybe, but based on the link between Dbromage and Thin Arthur it is surely enough to warrant a check user request against The Null Device.

Based on the above evidence I believe it would be worthwhile the following user names for check user.

And based upon the edit made here [17] & [18], and user who admitted to having these IP addresses, but was reluctant to disclose his user name to Administrator [19]

Thank you.Tezza1 16:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • General - Dbromage and The Null Device have never posted at the same time. Dbromage has never posted between two of The Null Device's adjacent posts. The Null Device posting sessions have never been at the same time as Dbromage's posting sessions, often are on different days, and often on similar topics. For example, (1) Dbromage stopped positing on March 1, 2007 at Talk:Railpage Australia[20], The Null Device started posted on March 2, 2007 and stopped posting on March 3, 2007, specifically stopping after posting at Railpage Australia AfD.[21] Dbromage then started posting again on March 6, 2007. (2) Dbromage stopped positing on March 9, 2007 at Talk:Rail transport modelling,[22] The Null Device started posted on March 12, 2007 and stopped posting on March 12, 2007 at Talk:Railpage Australia.[23] Dbromage then started posting again on March 13, 2007. (3) Dbromage stopped positing on May 9, 2007, The Null Device started posted on May 27, 2007 and stopped posting on May 27, 2007 at Hush (song) after revising the images‎.[24] Dbromage then started posting again on May 28, 2007 at Hush (song) to revise the images.[25] (4) Dbromage stopped positing at 07:05 July 23, 2007 at Articles for deletion.[26] The Null Device started posting thirty minutes later at Articles for deletion[27] and stopped posting on May 27, 2007. Dbromage then started posting again on July 31, 2007. (5) Dbromage stopped positing at August 2, 2007. The Null Device started posting eight hours later and stopped posting an hour after than. Dbromage then started posting again on August 3, 2007, four hours after The Null Device stopped. (6) Dbromage stopped positing at 06:37 6 August 2007. The Null Device started posting four hours later and stopped posting an hour after than. Dbromage then started posting again on August 7, 2007.
  • Common pages The Null Device and Dbromage both have posted at significantly different topics such as (1) Hush (song), (2) Image:Somebody's Image Hush.jpg, (3) Railpage Australia‎, (4) Talk:Hush (song), (5) Image:Giuliano Girardi Hush.jpg, (6) Image:I Colours Hush.jpg, (7) Talk:Railpage Australia, and (8) On March 2, 2007, The Null Device move Scott McGregor to Scott McGregor (baseball player)[28] to account for the subsequent March 2, 2007 creation of [[Scott McGregor (television presenter). Dbromage subsequently posted at Talk:Scott McGregor (television presenter)[29].
  • Cooperation (1) In May 2007, The Null Device uploaded Image:Somebody's Image Hush.jpg and the now deleted Image:Giuliano Girardi Hush.jpg and Image:I Colours Hush.jpg on 27 May 2007. Twelve days later on 8 June 2007 Dbromage responded to BetacommandBot's post on The Null Device's talk page by posting a fair use for all three images.[30],[31][32]. (2) On August 1, 2007, The Null Device triple tagged the now deleted Shelly Horton article with notability, Blpdispute, and unreferenced. Two days later, on August 3, 2007, Dbromage tagged the page with copyvio, resulting in the deletion of Shelly Horton.[33]
  • Yeah, so? Thin Arthur 08:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • General - Thin Arthur made a post at 06:10, 30 August 2007[34] and Dbromage made a post at 06:10, 30 August 2007[35].
  • So? Two different people made two unrelated contriibutions at the same time? This is really grasping at straws. For the record, we were no longer working together in August. He left at the end of June. Thin Arthur 08:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Common pages and cooperation Dbromage and Thin Arthur have contributed to the following topics: (1) Railpage Australia; (2) List of rail transport modellers; (3) List of railfans‎; (4) Rail transport modelling; (5) Talk:Railpage Australia; (6) Iain Campbell Smith; (7) Scott McGregor (television presenter); (8) Victorian general election, 2010. Dbromage and Thin Arthur have largely supported each other in the following AfDs: (9) 1970s fads and trends in North America AfD; (10) 1980s fads and trends in North America AfD; (11) 1990s fads and trends‎ AfD; (12) 1990s fads and trends in Japan AfD; (13) 1990s fads and trends in North America AfD; (14) 2000s fads and trends AfD; (15) 2000s fads and trends in North America AfD; (16) Cheese & onion AfD; (17) Climate change in popular culture‎ AfD; (18) Independent University of Australia AfD; (19) List of chemical compounds with unusual names (2nd nomination) AfD; (20) List of colleges and universities named after people AfD; (21) List of entertainers related to academics AfD; (22) List of foods with a low glycemic index AfD; (23) List of songs deemed inappropriate by Clear Channel following the 09 September 11, 2001 attacks (2nd nomination)‎ AfD; (24) List of volcanoes in Republic of Macedonia AfD; (25) Planet killer AfD; (26) Political change (2nd nomination) AfD; (27) Shaheedur Rahman AfD; (28) Spells in Harry Potter (3rd nomination) AfD; (29) Star Trek versus Star Wars (4th nomination) AfD; (30) Stonehenge in popular culture AfD; (31) Victorian general election, 2010 AfD; (32) War against Iran AfD. Dbromage, Thin Arthur and The Null Device have each posted on the following pages: (34) Railpage Australia; (35) Talk:Railpage Australia. Thin Arthur and The Null Device have both posted on the following pages: (36) Railpage Australia; (37) Scott McGregor‎. On March 2, 2007, The Null Device move Scott McGregor to Scott McGregor (baseball player)[36] to allow Thin Arthur to create Scott McGregor (television presenter) on March 2, 2007. (38) Talk:Railpage Australia; (39) Railpage Australia AfDs.
Comments
  • Tezza, I used to work with David until he changed jobs a few months ago. 150.203.56.19 is a proxy used by a large number of people. To be honest you seriously need to get a life and give up this lone jihad against Railpage. Thin Arthur 07:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be quite a coincidence that TWO like minded users are employed by that organization sitting side by side playing tag team editing at the same time and on the same articles and Afd's. If you are a different person, you have been consulting with user:Dbromage in making changes to articles and Afd's to achieve the same outcome (Did he ask you for the Barnstar?). RegardsTezza1 08:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I should not be dignifying these contemptuous accusations with a response, but I will play by Wikipedia's rules. Yes, we have similar interests. No, we did not sit side by side. No, I did not consult with anybody in contributing to AfDs. I am quite capable of making my own decisions. No, he did not ask me for the Barnstar. You conveniently forgot to mention that I also gave a Barnstar to another editor[37] who I considered to have made an exceptional contribution to the same article. Or was that fact too inconvenient in trying to gather evidence that supported your pre-conceived conclusion? I consider these accusations to be harassment. Thin Arthur 08:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response; I have already mentioned that you awarded the same Barnstar to Administrator Gnangarra. That user is not suspected of being a sock puppet, you are. Tezza1 10:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You came to a conclusion then tried to find evidence that supported it. I am not a sockpuppet and neither is The Null Device. We are all real people who used to work together and had similar interests. Why not try applying Occam's Razor to your conspiracy theories and accept that you are in a minority of one? In case you hadn't noticed, the alleged puppetmaster is no longer involved with the subject of the article and has not been for a long time. Your disruptive editing of the article was unsuccessful so now you are going after the editors in an attempt to get the banned. Do you really have nothing better to do than continue this lone jihad? This accusation of sockpuppetry is vexatious, just like all the other COI/vanity/etc complaints you made when your POV edits failed to stick. Thin Arthur 10:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response; Calm down, let's wait for an outcome. If your have nothing to fear then you have nothing to worry about. For the record, user Dbromage has become active in the last hour or two on his talk page, deleting my message. That user account has been inactive for over a month. [38]Tezza1 12:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I gave him a heads up. Your user account was inactive for several months, right up until Railpage Australia was unprotected. Strange about that. I want to know how having a different opinion in List of colleges and universities named after people [39] is "cooperation"? You simply listed all the AFDs where more than one person in the same organisation made !votes. Why did you ignore all the AFDs where there is no intersection of accounts? I won't bother going through everything else you've posted except to say that it shows a bizarre obsession with silencing people who you disagree with. Admins whould look through the whole editing histories of all people and look at them in their totality rather than the above cherry picked examples. Even though we have some similar interests, and working in the same organisation some similar knowledge or expertise, there is only a tiny amount of overlap where more than one of us has contributed to the same article. This alleagtion should be seen in the light of Tezza's obsession with trying to get Railpage Australia deleted, and failing to do so making life as miserable as possible for anybody that has in some way supported or contributed to it. Thin Arthur 08:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response by Tezza1 The Austrailan National University seems to have hundreds of IP addresses. From Whois 150.203.56.19 seems to belong to the Australian Partnership of Advanced Computing APAC office. Although APAC is attached to a University, reading their webpage [42], APAC seems not to be a large organization.Tezza1 14:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • sigh* Please read ths WHOLE site and you'll see exactly how many people work for APAC. Hint: about 30 EFTs at ANU alone (I know this because I am one of them!) and many more across 8 research programs in all states. The page you linked only shows those working in the national admin office, and the names are out of date anyway. I could write a Wikipedia article about APAC but you'd accuse me of COI. Admins, please note that ArbCom has accepted the request to investigate Tezza1's actions. Thin Arthur 02:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response by Tezza1 Thin Arthur, we only have your word that you are a different person, I still maintain you are either a sock puppet or possibly a role account used by more than one person. If the account is a "role account" then it must be blocked under Wikipedia guidelines. If what you claim is true and you are a close associate (though your own admission) with editor Dbromage how can we not be sure that you have not colluded together on a joint exercise editing article content (Railpage) based upon the evidence of edits made by you and Dbromage on other articles and Afd's. I find it hard to believe that a casual observer, or even one who has an intense outside interest in the Railpage discussion forum would know so much about that organizations inner workings. Why did you delete my last edit and make the comment in your edit summary "Digital river is just the web hosting company and not the owner" [43]. How do you know this to be the case?
One has to ask, why editor Dbromage has acknowledged my message about his suspected sock puppetry (by deleting it) and is still yet to respond Tezza1 11:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest waiting for RFCU on this one. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Conclusions

Thanks to Jreferee for pointing out the arbcom, which looks like it is accepted. RFCU says Dbromage = Thin Arthur is POSSIBLE, not that it is or isn't. Arbcom is much better suited to sort this out than SSP. Defering to the arbcom case. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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