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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:28, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Steven Adams

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Steven Adams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Contested prod. No significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Both inline and ice hockey are extremely minor amateur sports in Australia, so making a national team is not automatically notable. Article appears to be an autobiography as well, judging by the article creator's first edit summary. The-Pope (talk) 12:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I'm not sure I agree with this: Both inline and ice hockey are extremely minor amateur sports in Australia, so making a national team is not automatically notable. No opinion as to inclusion-worthiness. Carrite (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you have any evidence of any significant coverage of either sport, let alone this person, in independent (ie not the organising associations) reliable sources? Ice hockey may have a slightly higher profile, but both are rarely, if ever, covered in major newspapers or on TV. Like always, if anyone can find any significant coverage in independent reliable sources, then I'll withdraw the nomination, but I don't think any WP:NSPORT style auto-inclusion should occur here. The-Pope (talk) 14:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. -- The-Pope (talk) 14:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. -- The-Pope (talk) 14:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- The-Pope (talk) 14:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, Sources provided do not provide significant coverage of this semi-professional hockey player. A search for other sources doesn't come up with much, therefore fails WP:N, but it has been shown that he played at the 2010 FIRS Men's Inline Hockey World Championships, so he passes WP:NHOCKEY. Auseplot (talk) 21:22, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment So, to mix my sporting metaphors, and maybe under-recognize the importance of the sport, but are we leaning towards keeping an WP:AUTOBIO (strike 1) with only trivial/not significant coverage (strike 2) in non-independent sources (strike 3) because he played in a tournament, which also has no independent coverage (strike 4)?The-Pope (talk) 00:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Has never represented Australia in ice hockey and, as far as I can tell, WP:NHOCKEY only applies to ice hockey, not inline hockey. With that aside, the only thing to consider the WP:GNG, which Adams fails spectacularly. He has no significant coverage in any sources, let alone independent ones. Jenks24 (talk) 13:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Playing on the national team for inline hockey passes the more general WP:NSPORTS which is what they probably meant above. -DJSasso (talk) 13:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Personally, I don't think they were referring to the more general NSPORTS, but even assuming that they were, I still don't think he passes NSPORTS. The only other applicable section would be "major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level". The only tournament that it's verified he played in is the 2010 FIRS Men's Inline Hockey World Championships, which, although an "international amateur" competition, is not, in my opinion, "major" as there are no significant independent sources on it either in the Wikipedia article or that I can find. I'm afraid my delete !vote must stand. Jenks24 (talk) 16:07, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Major just refers to the fact that it is the highest possible championship for their sport. -DJSasso (talk) 15:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not my reading of it. By your premise, I could create a sport, get some people I know from another country, have a "world championship" (which would make it the highest possible championship for that sport), then put this online at myofficialmadeupsport.com and be notable by Wikipedia's standards, even though neither myself nor the tournament is covered in independent sources. Jenks24 (talk) 16:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    That would be a completely seperate issue because it would violate the "Wikipedia is not for things made up at school one day." principle. -DJSasso (talk) 17:58, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Fails WP:GNG - he crops up in a few team lists exclusively on the team website. GHIT searching is compromised by his relatively common name and the existence of a much more (formerly) notable rugby league team also called the "Sydney Bears". How about the requirements in WP:NSPORTS? "International"? Nope, this is an Australian league. What about "professional"? As in, the players earn their livelihood from their sport? Not a chance, in a league with approximately zero advertising. Basing the entire article on a single self-published player profile that lists his hometown as "Adelaide, NSW" is drawing a very very long bow.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:45, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment He has participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics. (quote from WP:NSPORTS. The International Roller Sports Federation is the highest organizing body for inline hockey (and not the IIHF) as recognized by such groups as the IOC and the Pan American Games Council, and it is FIRS that governs the game at major multi-sport events. This is not a case of making up a sport and holding a championship; this is a sport that has a worldwide governing body recognized by the IOC and is played at major international multi-sport events (such as the World Games). I am concerned about the basically total lack of sourcing, but I lean very, very weak keep, based on policy alone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravendrop (talk • contribs)
  • Delete WP:NSPORTS (as specified in its very first sentence) is there only to help evaluate whether or not a sportsperson, sports league, or an amateur/professional sports league organization will meet WP:GNG. In other words, GNG is king, and there's no indication Adams meets GNG. Sideways713 (talk) 13:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment In answer to the last two comments, I have frequently referred to what I consider the "spirit" of WP:NSPORTS to be - and I believe that is "competing at what level of each sport is likely to have coverage exist somewhere, maybe outside the googleable region, that meets WP:GNG." Most Olympians, most likely, have an article on them, somewhere, sometime. Most competitors in the main professional (or their amateur precursors) football/basketball/cricket/baseball leagues in most places around the world, would probably have an article about them. Ice hockey players in major competitions too, also easily fit in this category. Where it possibly falls down is when a player represents a minor country in a minor sport - and see this story about the status of the sport. It isn't as clear cut as American rugby league players or Egpytian cricketers, but he may meet the technical wording of the guideline, but he doesn't meet the spirit. There is virtually no chance of anyone finding any significant coverage of him in any independent reliable sources. And it is only a guideline. The-Pope (talk) 14:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // essay // 08:34, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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