Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Static relay

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The only thing that's clear from this discussion is that this title shouldn't be deleted. Maybe the article needs to be rewritten. Maybe it should be redirected or merged to one of several plausible targets mentioned here. But, that conversation can continue on Talk:Static relay, and whatever consensus emerges from there can be carried out without the need for further AfD involvement. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:24, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Static relay

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"Static relay" is not a term I'm familiar with and the only very minor sources I can find for it give it as an old and obsolete synonym for solid state relay, which we already have an article on. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to solid state relay. The Google Books search linked above shows that the sources using this name are not all minor (here's a book on the subject that uses it in the title) and it is not an old and obsolete synonym (here's a book published this year that uses it). 86.17.222.157 (talk) 15:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This doesn't get any clearer. Is this simply an old synonym for the device we now call a solid state relay? Or is it at all distinct? The 1961 book doesn't help much as it's not visible through Google. The 2016 book has, "the majority of static relays have attracted armature output elements to provide metal-to-metal contacts" which is clearly not what we mean by an SSR. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Redirect Staszek Lem (talk) 17:35, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Relay#Static relay, where it is mentioned. Static relays are those that have no moving parts, i.e., they are static. This was an early 60's name for them, to be contrasted with electromagnetic dynamic relays. Static relays come in several types: solid state (typically this means an analog circuit), digital (Digital protective relay) or numerical (microprocessor-based A to D sampling, also at Digital protective relay). I don't know if there is a lot of info out there discussing static relays as a group, but the term exists and is a plausible search term. Hence a redirect is warranted. --Mark viking (talk) 00:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Once again you have come up with the goods and found the right redirect target. My suggestion of a redirect above was based on the nominator's statement that this was a synonym for solid state relay, and was intended as a "don't delete" opinion rather than an indication of the best redirect target. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But your book ref (above) describes them as if they do have moving parts, but use active electronics driving this to control timing etc. (no, I don't understand the name). If they have no moving parts, then they're an old term for SSRs and should redirect there. But are they something distinct instead? Andy Dingley (talk) 23:00, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As I thought I had made clear, my only thought here is that this should not be deleted. Where, or whether, the title should be redirected is something that can be decided at the article talk page or by bold action without an admin having to press the "delete" button, so, as far as this discussion is concerned, the only important thing is that this should not be deleted. You are talking about a content issue that is no part of the business of AfD. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As a separate issue, can you make any sense of the current content for this article? I can barely understand a word of it, so I wouldn't miss any of it. Andy Dingley (talk) 07:42, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have rewritten the article based on chapters from a couple of books. It is still a very basic stub, but may have useful material for merging. --Mark viking (talk) 11:06, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know what one is yet? How does it differ from a solid-state relay? (If not, then merge)

Do they have moving parts? "the majority of static relays have attracted armature output elements to provide metal-to-metal contacts" (above) means that they do have moving parts. Or was that just because 1961 pre-dates power semiconductors and they had to? In which case, why are they called "static" relays? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:18, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:22, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: New comments after rewrite? Sandstein 19:10, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 19:10, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Open an RfC/Don't Delete - This should probably be a redirect, but there is confusion as to where the redirection should go. I suggest that this AfD be closed as "don't delete" and then either create an RfC, or otherwise put up a call for experts at the relevant wikiproject in order to figure out where this should redirect to, or whether this is a valid place for a standalone article. In any of those outcomes however, this article should not be deleted, so "don't delete". I think we have consensus for this. Fieari (talk) 03:04, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Should WP have an article when it is clear that WP (as a group of editors, myself included) are not knowledgeable enough to write that article? We simply don't know what this thing is, so how can we write about it? Andy Dingley (talk) 10:59, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is clearly a notable subject, there are numerous relevant hits on gbooks. This book, for instance, describes them in great detail. I suspect that the term is now archaic, the book I linked was published in 1977, and this more recent book hints at that without actually saying so. There are many books that discuss static relays as if it were a current term, but these are mostly English language Indian publishers. I have found such books to frequently be out of date as they have a tendency to copy and recopy from other sources (they are great as sources on obsolete equipment and techniques, which I frequently write articles on, but that's another story). Nevertheless, even if completely historic, the subject remains notable and encyclopaedic.

Not strictly relevant to AfD, but I'll make an attempt at clearing up some of the confusion in this discussion. Static relays have sensing and signal processing circuitry which has no moving parts and may be much more complex than the classic voltage operated relay. They may, or may not, have mechanically closing output contacts. If the output contacts are not mechanical then they are called fully static relays. The solid-state relay is the most widely known example of this, but not the only one. The early static relays composed of discrete transistors and other components, while technically solid state, is not what engineers would normally mean by an SSL, they mean a solid-state device built as a monolithic block. SpinningSpark 15:54, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Those who know what it is, don't need the Wikipedia article. Those who don't know, would only be baffled by the Wikiality. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's a piss poor reason to delete. SpinningSpark 14:11, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

speculation: 1. I think I recall that there used to be tube type thyristors used for switching. Perhaps that would be a static relay that wasn’t a solid state relay? 2. From the IEEE dictionary: “Static Relay. A relay or relay unit in which the designed response is developed by electronic, solid state, magnetic or other components without mechanical motion. Note A relay switch is composed of both static and electromechanical units in which the designed response is accomplished by the static units may be referred to as a static relay.” That sounds to me like the armature metal to metal contact might be an electromechanical relay in parallel with the static unit so that the static unit does the switching and the electromechanical then takes over after a few cycles.Constant314 (talk) 08:20, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.