Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shai Benbasat (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Consensus is that sourcing is insufficient. Star Mississippi 14:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shai Benbasat

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Below the threshold of notablity for a gamer. References are passing mentions and interviews. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO scope_creep^Talk 11:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Video games, and Israel. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:56, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article was nominated as a revenge to my keep votes on their various nominated Afds. This Afd come out within minutes after my votes. Editors please check my edit history and time interactions of this nomination. Okoslavia (talk) 18:38, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide diffs instead of vaguely saying check my edit history. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@QuicoleJR Please see my vote (revision as of 10:53, 16 July 2023) and their nomination (revision as of 11:51, 16 July 2023). Okoslavia (talk) 19:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That could easily be a coincidence. Why would they retaliate against your vote specifically, and not the others? QuicoleJR (talk) 19:16, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Speedy delete~~ G4 per AfD which closed just three days ago. Article so tagged. Dorsetonian (talk) 18:53, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Struck, per SarekOfVulcan below. Dorsetonian (talk) 20:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: There is a discussion going on at ANI. Okoslavia (talk) 19:07, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete An AFD closed with consensus to delete this three days ago. This version is practically unchanged from the deleted version. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Declined G4 speedy, not essentially identical. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:12, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at it without G4 in mind, I am neutral on whether it should stay. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:18, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am finding it very difficult to assess whether the subject is notable from the provided references because they are all in Hebrew. Per WP:NONENG, I think we need some form of summary of what they say. My own search for something in English turned up virtually nothing, which I must admit I find surprising given the assertion he has "over 200,000 subscribers and 49 million views" (the platform is not specified). Dorsetonian (talk) 23:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The only sources that we might call reliable fail to be in-depth (while interviews can be useful for some purposes, a few lines of blurb leading into an interview is not significant coverage). Wikipedia is not a promotional platform for influencers, vloggers, thinkfluencers, or vlogfluencers. XOR'easter (talk) 23:36, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging our good faith Afd participants ,Visviva,Siroxo and Indefensible for their invaluable comments. Okoslavia (talk) 06:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Okoslavia: You do know that canvassing and vote stacking is illegal. scope_creep^Talk 09:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Run them through Google Translate. They are two interviews, one in the group and the rest are passing mention about attending a gamer gig. scope_creep^Talk 09:29, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have not canvassed them but just asking for their opinion. It can be in my favour or in my opppose. Okoslavia (talk) 11:04, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Notice that you specifically pinged editors that you think would agree with you. There are several types of rigging discussions, not just asking for support outright. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:01, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and salt I agree with the source analysis performed by XOReaster above, and my sense is salting will be necessary to avoid having another AfD next week. SportingFlyer T·C 17:07, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Despite the recent deletion of an article on the subject, the lack of much content in this one and the drama this provoked at WP:ANI, at least four of the references are IMO independent, major and reliable sources which provide more than sufficient evidence that the subject is notable. I have reviewed each in turn (current version of the article) with the aid of Google Translate and this is my assessment of them:

cites "Israeli vlogger, TV host and professional gamer", and passes verification. The article itself is about excessive screen time and is an interview with Benbasat who "may not be familiar" but is "a household name in the world of gamers". Ynet is a non-trivial, reliable source. IMO this contributes towards WP:SIGCOV.
also cites "Israeli vlogger, TV host and professional gamer", and passes verification. The article itself is about a discussion at a conference where Benbasat was a panellist and makes only passing mention of him. IMO, this does not contribute towards WP:SIGCOV.
cites "as of November 2022, he has over 200,000 subscribers and 49 million views" and passes verification (except that it is dated November 2021). The article is nominally about an upcoming gaming contest but is actually a bio of two contestants, one of whom is Benbasat. Mako (website) is a non-trivial, reliable source. IMO this contributes towards WP:SIGCOV.
also cites "as of November 2022, he has over 200,000 subscribers and 49 million views" and passes verification for the number of views. It is similar to the previous article except it is in an interview format. It describes Benbasat as one of "Israel's biggest gaming stars". Frogi appears to be a non-trivial reliable source. IMO this contributes towards WP:SIGCOV.
cites "He is a retired soldier who had worked in the high-tech fields before becoming a gamer" and passes verification. The article is nominally about the game Fortnite, but consists of a bio of Benbasat and then his thoughts on the matter. The People and Computers Group appears to be a large media organisation and events organiser. IMO this contributes towards WP:SIGCOV.
cites "He had accompanied the dubbing of The Super Mario Bros. Movie film in the Hebrew version for the Israeli premiere of the film". This rather garbled sentence (I am not quite sure exactly what it is supposed to mean - I think he was somehow involved in the premiere and not the film itself) passes verification; the machine translation of the article says "For the audience of young people and gamers, a unique collaboration was created with YouTube star Mr. Shibolt, who accompanied the dubbing of the film in the Hebrew version; for the Israeli premiere of the film". This, however, is only a passing reference and does not, IMO, contribute towards WP:SIGCOV.

Dorsetonian (talk) 06:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

None of it is a WP:SECONDARY sources None of it. Interviews are WP:PRIMARY and and as group less so. Secondary sources i.e. " people talking to other people who don't know the individual" provide notability. None of them applies here. Being listed for an event isn't a secondary source either. I suggest you read the WP:BLP policy. scope_creep^Talk 15:57, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The flaw in your argument is that whilst what is directly quoted in an interview is indeed primary, that is not what is happening here. Benbasat is not talking about himself but something else on which he is an acknowledged expert - things we don't even care about. It is the publication which is wrapping these interviews with biography about Benbasat himself, and that is secondary. Dorsetonian (talk) 16:44, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Material from Benbasat is still unequivocally non-independent, and that includes comments that aren't in quotation marks but are still relaying his views (e.g. "Benbasat felt") or which are simply paraphrasing an upcoming quote. There are only a few sentences in sources 1, 3, and 4 that provide independent coverage, and they're the routine PROMO bio-blurbs one finds before every interview. Source 5 is even worse, containing just a single sentence of intro; further, it's a guest submission so is not reliable anyway. JoelleJay (talk) 23:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, the Hebrew sources are interviews with routine, shallow intros and little by way of independent content. Doesn't meet GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 23:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The sources posted above fall slightly short of GNG but there is a little bit that can be built upon if more can be found. I wouldn’t be opposed to moving to draft space as an WP:ATD though that may not be useful as the current version is quite short. I oppose salting at this time as this title has only been deleted once before. Frank Anchor 02:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article is supported by limited sources. The sources seem to be tabloid interest pieces that are mostly drawn from primary interviews with the subject, some where he is just a talking head to support the article. Notwithstanding more coverage, it is clear to me that the existing sources don't provide a sufficiently independent and reliable coverage of the subject. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 04:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Multiple independent sources are there to establish Sigcov. Okoslavia (talk) 05:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One more sigcov from Mako (website) here, which says Shai, is a young Israeli who is behind the popular YouTube page Mr. Shibolt , managed to turn his hobby into a fairly profitable profession. Mr. Shibulat managed in less than two months and in an almost completely organic way to reach an impressive number of 17 thousand subscribers (subs) and several videos that crossed the threshold of one hundred thousand views. Shay, who works on normal days at a high-tech company, does not rely on making Mr. Shibulat his main source of income and knows that, like any trend, Fortnite will eventually return to more sane dimensions. In this news portal, independent reporter, Ben Biron is talking about Benbasat. Okoslavia (talk) 10:58, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to keep offering junk as good refs when they are bad. That doesn't establish notability and it doesn't meet WP:SIGCOV by any stretch of the imagination. 100k subscribers is very low. The old standard from about 2008 was that a person had to have 250k to even to get seen. The lastest one I saw from about 2018 was 500k subscribers + normal real WP:SECONDARY coverage, not interviews or profiles or PR, to be called a youtuber. Its not significant coverage. scope_creep^Talk 15:30, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, One of his YouTube channel among many is here. Another one for you. Okoslavia (talk) 15:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It clearly shows the failure of before from the nominator side. Okoslavia (talk) 15:51, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

>sigh< Dorsetonian (talk) 16:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yip. scope_creep^Talk 17:30, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Something to consider is that Hebrew is spoken by only 7-9 million people, which results in relatively lower subscriber/view counts for any Hebrew-language YouTube channel, including Israel's top YouTubers, due to a smaller potential audience. For instance, Benbasat's 227k subscribers represent approximately 3-4% of Hebrew speakers. Mooonswimmer 02:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The source which was provided above [1] is not good. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 13:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The sources, as far as I can tell from the machine translation, do not meet the notability criteria. He's not widely known enough for the industry - there are quite a few like him. I don't see much point in draftifying, since the article is small and it would essentially shift all that headache to yet another AfC reviewer. I do not support WP:SALT, however. Deckkohl (talk) 17:55, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. While vloggers can be notable, I do not think that Benbasat is. gidonb (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is where a source assessment table comes in handy. With the number of sources at hand, it should be easy. Also, something to consider when discussing subscribers/views is that Hebrew is only spoken by 7-9 million people, which results in relatively lower subscriber/view counts for any Hebrew-language YouTube channel, including Israel's top YouTubers, due to a smaller potential audience. For instance, 227k subscribers represent approximately 3-4% of Hebrew speakers subscribed to the channel. Mooonswimmer 02:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mooonswimmer 227K subscribers are only from one of his YouTube channel. His another YouTube channel alone with 287 K subscribers. So from just two channels we have over 500K subscribers, I suspect there might be more channels owned by this guy. Okoslavia (talk) 12:43, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.