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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sam Cronin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There was a lot of participation from new users in this debate, and quite a few WP:ILIKEIT or WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS type arguments, which I discounted. However, no one rebutted the point made by Nfitz - namely, the subject appears to meet (weakly) the general notability guideline by having significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Given that, we don't even need to reach the issue of the sub-guidelines like WP:ATHLETE or essays like WP:FOOTYN. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 17:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Cronin

[edit]

Discussion to run until at least 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Sam Cronin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Player is a new draftee who has not played a professional soccer game, and therefore fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:FOOTY/N --JonBroxton (talk) 00:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep.... Someone who is a SECOND OVERALL draft of a professional league doesnt get a page but no-name college basketball players who GASP arent professional do? What a hypocritical POS you all are. Stop being WIKI NAZI's and keep tha page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.74.84 (talk) 20:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP.... you wouldn't sell your computer just because you left to take a piss. Cronin WILL play with TFC on some level. Why create more work for people? Besides, those of you who want to delete, do you even follow TFC or MLS for that matter? If not, then your opinions are null and void. This is information for people who care, not for those who just want their name to something. Again, who is Sam Cronin? 2nd round draft pick in the MLS superdraft, drafted to TFC in 2009. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.70.34.106 (talk • contribs)
  • KEEP.... #2 ovrall draft pick, on a PRO team. that should count for something. wiki nazis need to get a life and find better things to do than delete articles because they don't like the sport... fuck the wiki nazis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.176.195 (talk • contribs)
  • Are you guys morrons?

It's seems you are! What idiots! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.76.214 (talk) 14:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well then why does it state this in your notability rules "or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States." I believe that is justification enough to leave it up. So bugger off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.244.161 (talk) 15:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Has not played, fails WP:ATHLETE. Don't edit my post. DeMoN2009 20:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I think that if NCAA competition qualifies you for other sports, then it should do so for soccer as well. At least for the few dozen players who are drafted each year it should count, I guess. American soccer is operating under a different system than pretty much every other country in the world, and I don't think that should be entirely disregarded. I think that a fair situation would be to allow articles for MLS Draftees to exist until the start of the next MLS season. If they are not part of a professional roster by then, it would be fine to delete them. I dunno, but I vote to keep. --

Grant.Alpaugh 21:00, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this guy have a Wiki page even though he's less accomplished than Cronin in soccer and has only played amateur? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_DeMartin

Keep The guy was a top three draft pick for a professional soccer club, and a notable college player, who was considered one of the best in the league, and was nominated for several awards. This meets the benchmark for notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.215.244 (talk) 21:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails the accepted notability standards for association footballers. If/when he ever plays at professional level the article can easily be recreated. For the record, "I like it" and "other stuff exists" are not valid reasons for the article to be kept and should be discounted, keep it for a while and see if he becomes notable does not fit with WP:CRYSTAL or the concept that notability is not temporary, and vandalising the AfD will not prevent the proceess from reaching a conclusion. King of the North East 21:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I think a fair system would be, when they play a pro game in MLS then the player can have an article. Until otherwise, delete! As for all these IP's with the same tone as each other, I am surprised no one has said it's one and the same person. That considering they all have the same language skills... which is poor! Govvy (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He is not just an amature athlete who has been drafted to a professional team. He has already distinguished himself enough to have been amongst the most sought after prospects in American Soccer.


Keep At the highest level of amature competition he stood out enough to earn the following: 2005 - ACC All-Freshman Team, 2006 - NSCAA Second Team All-South, ACC All-Tournament, team MVP, 2007 - NSCAA Second Team All-American, Soccer America First Team MVP, NCAA College Cup All-Tournament, NSCAA First Team All-South, First Team All-ACC, ESPN the Magazine Academic All-American, team captain, 2008 - Hermann Trophy finalist, Lowes Senior Class Award, NSCAA First Team All-American, Soccer America First Team MVP, College Soccer News First Team All-American, NSCAA First Team All-South, First Team All-ACC, team captain, 2009 - Drafted 2nd overal in the MLS Superdraft JDGRPB (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC). [reply]

  • KEEPSam was signed to a professional soccer contract with Toronto FC of the MLS as well as taken in the top 5 for the 2009 MLS Super draft. Even if he never plays a professional game (which he will due to the nature of soccer), he is considered a professional because he goes to work every day and earns a paycheque from a professional organization. I'm pretty sure that makes him a professional. Plus, you wiki-douch-bags should not be arguing stupid samantics about someone who already meets the requirements of being a professional, when pages are getting hacked all kinds on this site. You should be embracing writers that are expanding the great encyclopedia that this is. There are lots of people from the province of Ontario that are looking for valid info on this kid and this is supposed to be a place people can rely on to get that info. Stop being douche-bags. Thanks [Razcle] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Razcle (talk • contribs) 22:54, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, has not yet made an appearance for a team in a fully-professional league, therefore failing WP:ATHLETE. Claiming Cronin will play for TFC is crystal ballery. Recreate if and when he does make his debut. --Jimbo[online] 03:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's immaterial that he fails WP:Athlete, as he passes WP:N; though surely he has played at the highest amateur level - he was the runner-up for the Hermann Trophy which would make him the second-best amateur player in soccer. Also the clain that this his impending play for Toronto is crystal ballery is wrong. This guideline says Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. This future event IS almost certain to take place (you name me the last top-3 draft MLS draft pick who was signed and didn't play in MLS). Nfitz (talk) 03:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify - he was 2nd runner up (3rd best). Also, I don't think it's appropriate to assume he will play in MLS. He could suffer a career-ending injury or just never pan out. I agree that it's very likely he will play in MLS, but until he does, he doesn't pass WP:ATHLETE. However, as I stated above, I think the article satisfies WP:N so the article should be kept. Jogurney (talk) 03:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Passes WP:FOOTYN Criteria number 4 by being named NSCAA First Team All-American, and by being a Hermann Trophy finalist. These are the highest achievements one can get at the National Amature level. EDIT: Additionally, He assisted on a goal yesterday in a game between Toronto FC and the US Mens U-20 team. JDGRPB (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 07:52, 9 February 2009 (UTC).[reply]
  • Weak Keep. He easily fails WP:ATHLETE as he has yet to play professionally, and (as already stated) simply signing for a pro team is NOT enough to confer notablilty as there is no guarantee he will ever play at this level (remember, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball). However, the NCAA awards he has won and the media coverage that come with them are just about enough for him to pass notability guidelines... just. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 11:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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