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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete --Stormie (talk) 09:08, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Primal Evil

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Primal Evil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Non-notable game mod. Only 13 Google hits for "Primal Evil" + "Half-Life" [1], a few of them not pertaining to this subject. Speedy removed on the somewhat unusual grounds of "not a biography." Fails WP:V, WP:N, and not a game guide.  RGTraynor  14:03, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I've already thanked RGTraynor for bringing my somewhat cryptic edit summary to my attention on my talk page, and I've replied that this article doesn't meet A7 because it's about a piece of software, which is the reason I removed his inappropriate speedy tag. Now, back to the deletion discussion: not enough secondary sources exist for this mod to meet WP:N, so it should be deleted. Darkspots (talk) 15:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete as non-notable. Google search as per nominator revealed no reliable sources independent of the creators. Similar results for search for "primal evil" mod, and no hits at all on blogs or google groups. Also, the mod seems to be in development (see the link in the article). Silverfish (talk) 15:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — Looking beyond WP:GOOGLEHITS (This seems to be a popular reason behind AfDs lately!), it looks like all original research, and it even seems like this was written by the creator of the mod itself. The sole reference points to another Wikipedia article, which is a no–no. Finally, no out–of–universe notability is inferred nor established. MuZemike (talk) 17:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just wanted to mention that I don't feel that the nomination is per WP:GHITS but is rather mentions google to document the failure of a relevant search to find sources. Since the article itself references no secondary sources, the nominator did the responsible thing and made sure that it really does fail WP:V and WP:N before nominating it. Darkspots (talk) 20:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pretty much. Obviously there's no standard of Google hits at which articles become notable (nor should there be), but it's the soundest method available to us to track down whether there are valid, reliable sources, and our overwhelming experience is that 13 hits is indicative of about as insignificant as it's possible to get. By contrast, Googling my own name with the name of a gaming company for whom I wrote my most recent published work fifteen years ago returns 4000 hits, but I don't think I pass WP:BIO.  RGTraynor  21:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • But we should not rely on Google hits as the basis of the nomination, at least not primarily. That's why I weighed the article solely on the bases of notability and verifiability. MuZemike (talk) 22:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I couldn't agree more that we shouldn't base AfD nominations on ghits. The nominator did not do so here at all, he based it on notability and verifiability. He brought up the google search to show that he did his homework and saw for himself that sources did not exist to show N and V. Side note: I have 668 ghits for the exact phrase of my (real) name (I'm pretty sure they're all me). I'd have to do some serious wikilawyering to pretend to pass WP:BIO. Darkspots (talk) 22:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's currently non-notable, but I'm sure it's going to be BIG! I don't know if you are a gamer, but if you are, then imagine playing God of War on the computer screen. There are currently only two concept-arts, but soon a trailer will be released. Please, give this mod's page in Wiki a chance!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Hristian (talk • contribs)

Quite aside from that this mod doesn't pass any standards of notability or verifiability, which are absolute requirements for any article, WP:CRYSTAL is a bar against things which don't yet exist. Gaming mods especially require huge buzz and verification by reliable sources to have any notability beyond their parent games, and generally do not succeed in keeping articles at AfD.  RGTraynor  18:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment - Never try the "It's gonna be big!" argument if you expect to be taken seriously. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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