Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Passive drinking
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Care will need to be taken in the article to discuss the various possible meanings, but they are not distinct enough to prevent a single article. DGG ( talk ) 03:22, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Passive drinking (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (<include<script type="text/javascript" src="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/popupsdev.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/recent2.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>only>View AfD</includeonly>View log • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable. Unfocused article with two sources referring to injuries caused by intoxicated people, two sources referring (one in clear jest) to the possibility of getting drunk through the air and one source (#3) that simply does not mention the topic at all, but is a set-up for the rant in the next source (#4). Buttload of "sources" on talk page are of no help. SummerPhD (talk) 02:29, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: WP:GNG. The term has real-world substantial coverage: see some of the Google books results for example. The article has problems but that is not a reason to delete, and at least two references are germane. I would be happy with a suitable merge target but found none. --Cyclopiatalk 13:22, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Which meaning are you seeing as a notable topic? The search you list gives 7 visible results on the first page covering at least 4 distinct meanings and one or two cases where "passive drinking" is merely two words that happen to have occurred in sequence. Is "passive drinking" a term to refer to the societal costs associated with alcohol use/abuse? Is it a reference to those individuals harmed by others' drinking? Is it the concept of potentially getting drunk from alcohol vapors? Is it a literary device referring to the feeling from being in a bar where others are drinking? I don't see a coherent topic here. - 70.91.21.146 (talk) 15:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That the expression has multiple used meanings, if anything, adds up to notability, does not reduce it. It simply means that the subject is more complicated than being a single topic. Anyway most sources refer to the meaning of societal costs associated with alcohol use/abuse. Here is a paper on passive drinking and another discussing exactly the very concept of "passive drinking" as a useful metaphor. This book and this other book cite the term in the same context. At least we can establish that this meaning of the expression "passive drinking" is highly notable (multiple academic sources). --Cyclopiatalk 13:53, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Which meaning are you seeing as a notable topic? The search you list gives 7 visible results on the first page covering at least 4 distinct meanings and one or two cases where "passive drinking" is merely two words that happen to have occurred in sequence. Is "passive drinking" a term to refer to the societal costs associated with alcohol use/abuse? Is it a reference to those individuals harmed by others' drinking? Is it the concept of potentially getting drunk from alcohol vapors? Is it a literary device referring to the feeling from being in a bar where others are drinking? I don't see a coherent topic here. - 70.91.21.146 (talk) 15:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: WP:GNG is exactly why I created this article, I looked it up couldn't find it and added it as this term has literally been used in governmental organizations (UK: the Department of Health of which Chief Medical Officer is Sir Liam Donaldson and the EU body EuroCare) and 4 leading news organizations, which are considered reliable sources. The CNN and The Independent references may be slightly sarcastic, The Daily Telegraph and New Scientist are not, in all the world these are considered leading news organizations, and they are using this phrase, albeit in a slightly different ways. You clearly need to learn how to use Google, and leave the wiki editing to people who will actually research their statements and use a search engine. Webhat (talk) 23:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - If we're talking about the societal effects of alcohol abuse, the article should either be called Societal effects of alcohol abuse with a redirect from the neologism "Passive drinking" or an expansion of the existing section, Alcohol_abuse#Societal_and_economic_costs. What we have is neither a discussion of the societal costs nor a discussion of the "history" of the neologism. "To support an article about a particular term or concept we must cite reliable secondary sources such as books and papers about the term or concept, not books and papers that use the term." WP:Neologism. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:24, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for referencing WP:Neologism, it states: "In a few cases, there will be notable topics which are well-documented in reliable sources, but for which no accepted short-hand term exists. It can be tempting to employ a neologism in such a case. Instead, it is preferable to use a title that is a descriptive phrase in plain English if possible, even if this makes for a somewhat long or awkward title." This is not such a case as the Neologism exists already, and has a documented existence for over 20 years, if it gives you a hard-on to get this article deleted by all means get it deleted. However you could actually take the time to improve the article which is lacking in your opinion or merge it with another article. I hope you exercise the same due diligence when it come to articles you've created such as Pennsport (string band), Adelphia (fancies) and Greater Kensington (string band), which are all three not noteworthy and are WP:Orphan. After some investigation it also looks to me like User:Mdsummermsw and User:Mdbrownmsw, which are accounts of yours, look like Wikipedia:Sock puppetry, as a self proclaimed Senior Editor you should certainly have known this and reported it yourself, so I have submitted a report on this Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/SummerPhD. Webhat (talk) 08:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - If we're talking about the societal effects of alcohol abuse, the article should either be called Societal effects of alcohol abuse with a redirect from the neologism "Passive drinking" or an expansion of the existing section, Alcohol_abuse#Societal_and_economic_costs. What we have is neither a discussion of the societal costs nor a discussion of the "history" of the neologism. "To support an article about a particular term or concept we must cite reliable secondary sources such as books and papers about the term or concept, not books and papers that use the term." WP:Neologism. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:24, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Webhat: If you take issue with articles I've created, this is not the place to discuss them. Take them to the individual articles. Your accusation of sock puppetry (already disposed of at SPI) also does not belong here. As for my being a "self proclaimed Senior Editor", you will find that yes, I am one of the thousands of editors displaying one of the Wikipedia:Service awards, as I am quite proud of the more than one dozen edits I have made. Having read that page so carefully, I would have assumed you would have figured out that nothing "gives me a hard-on". - SummerPhD (talk) 00:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- SummerPhD, either you didn't read my comment above, or I must stop assuming good faith. I linked a paper exactly about the "term or concept", as required by WP:NEOLOGISM. From the abstract of that paper: This article reflects on UK Chief Medical Officer's (CMO) 2009 announcement that alcohol abuse should be understood as a problem of 'passive drinking'. This was an attempt to instrumentally problematise drinking drawing on the successful campaign against 'passive smoking'. . It is clear that there is discussion about the term per se, and that it's not a mere occasional synonim. --Cyclopiatalk 12:54, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Cyclopia: Your comment, above, stating that the term referring to several different topics makes the term, as a topic, notable is rather confusing. In effect, then, it is not a term in those sources. "Horse" as a term is not notable, despite its numerous meanings. The meanings are notable. We have Equus, Horse (musician), Horse (geology), Horse (helicopter), etc. We do not have Horse (term). That the UK Chief Medical Officer used a term does not, IMO, make the fairly rare term "passive drinking" the "accepted short-hand term" for the societal costs of alcohol. In fact, the existence of numerous meanings for a phrase discredits the notion. Rather, the recent uses of the neologism seem to indicate that the 20 year old usage hasn't caught on. From what I see, the overwhelming majority of sources on the societal effects of alcohol abuse are ignorant of the purportedly "accepted short-hand term". - SummerPhD (talk) 00:29, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I see that you still refuse to acknowledge that there are sources on the terminology per se, as proved by the reference above, and you dodge the fact that, even if a majority of sources don't use an expression, the fact that the expression is cited in books and discussed in papers makes it notable under our criteria. --Cyclopiatalk 11:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)--Cyclopiatalk 11:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Cyclopia: Your comment, above, stating that the term referring to several different topics makes the term, as a topic, notable is rather confusing. In effect, then, it is not a term in those sources. "Horse" as a term is not notable, despite its numerous meanings. The meanings are notable. We have Equus, Horse (musician), Horse (geology), Horse (helicopter), etc. We do not have Horse (term). That the UK Chief Medical Officer used a term does not, IMO, make the fairly rare term "passive drinking" the "accepted short-hand term" for the societal costs of alcohol. In fact, the existence of numerous meanings for a phrase discredits the notion. Rather, the recent uses of the neologism seem to indicate that the 20 year old usage hasn't caught on. From what I see, the overwhelming majority of sources on the societal effects of alcohol abuse are ignorant of the purportedly "accepted short-hand term". - SummerPhD (talk) 00:29, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.