Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nancy Rotering (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus to delete as failing WP:NPOL. Some sources have been argued to show significant coverage, but they are relatively trivial mentions of her in articles regarding gun violence. TigerShark (talk) 23:28, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nancy Rotering

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This article fails WP:NPOL. Being a mayor of a small suburban town, or running unsuccessfully for higher office (not even making it to the general election) does not automatically confer notability. All of the sources cited either mention her in passing or are WP:ROUTINE local coverage. --1990'sguy (talk) 00:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per...well, pretty much the exact same reasons as the first AfD, she hasn't changed offices or become more notable in that timeframe. Having a notable event happen in her town does not make her notable herself. Fbifriday (talk) 01:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NPOL. Nothing has changed since first AfD. LibStar (talk) 01:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep, or at least Redirect to Highland Park, Illinois: She has run in multiple elections since the 2016 AFD, and obviously the Highland Park shooting brought her into the national spotlight, so it's wrong to say that nothing has changed. Normally, I don't think the mayor of a Highland Park-sized suburb would be notable, but there are enough little things here that make me lean toward Keep. At one point, she was considered a serious candidate for the US House of Representatives and was endorsed by Dick Durbin, so she had some name recognition beyond her suburb. She has generated a sizable amount of press in the Chicago area, and there's still material available that could be used to expand the article (although, to be fair, the current article doesn't clearly distinguish between the real Chicago Tribune and the suburb-specific newspapers within the Tribune organization). We could get into arguments about whether the local coverage counts towards anything. Personally, I happen to think the coverage that exists is good enough, but I'm not interested in splitting hairs over that. In any case, I think Rotering at least deserves a mention at Highland Park, Illinois, so a redirect seems like the worst-case scenario. Zagalejo (talk) 03:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep MrMemer223 (talk) 04:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:JUSTAVOTE. LibStar (talk) 04:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and Illinois. Shellwood (talk) 09:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete per WP:CSD REPOST; as there doesn't seem to have been any change in notability since the last deletion discussion. She has run for higher office a few more times, each time losing in the primary before the general election. Many politicians repeatedly run for office and lose in the primaries, that doesn't make them notable, it just makes them persistent, and career politicos. A new redirect without history to Highland Park, Illinois can be created afterwards and protected against editing to prevent further recreation of a NN politico, if such a redirect is needed and desired. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
CSD "REPOST" (WP:G4) does not apply because the article is not substantially identical to its version during the prior AfD. Rotering has run in a few more primaries since the last AfD, and a mass shooting occurred in her hometown. There has been enough news coverage about her since 2016 to overcome REPOST. Edge3 (talk) 03:08, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: For the reasons that:
- This person has been around Illinois politics for a number of years, even though the only political office she has won has been mayor of Highland Park.
- I live in Illinois, and she is one of those people whom I know that I had heard of before but didn't exactly know who she was, and I suspect there are other WP users (not just editors, but users) who are in a similar situation as myself.
- The sad events of the past week have put her (at least temporarily) into a national news spotlight, and this page is a good means of summarizing who she is for users alluded to in the point above.
- I admit I had not observed that some of the articles used in citations were newspapers in the Tribune family, as opposed to in the Tribune itself, but those can be reviewed and adjusted (although in the current media environment I think there can be some gray areas in situations like that, about what is and is not the actual Tribune).
- I don't see how it makes Wikipedia worse to retain and improve this article, and I don't see how it makes Wikipedia better to delete it.
- Thanks to all for their contributions and let's discuss further as needed. KConWiki (talk) 03:42, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the suburban newspaper articles are valid sources. I just figured people in this AFD would be scrutinizing the sources, so I wanted to provide some clarity. (I agree that the online environment makes these distinctions a little fuzzy. Databases like ProQuest will list all of that stuff as coming from Chicago Tribune, when most of it probably appeared in physical form as part of the Highland Park News, or the Deerfield Review, or a similar paper.) Zagalejo (talk) 04:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, one topic that could be added to the article is Highland Park's existing assault weapon ban, which brought Rotering a bit of national attention long before the recent shooting. (Here's a 2015 CBS News report which briefly features Rotering.) The ban was challenged and went to the Supreme Court, but survived. Zagalejo (talk) 04:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That sad event was deleted from her biography, apparently not significant enough to bother editing in, instead of deleting. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:05, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She has been covered by the Chicago Tribune and its suburban subsidiaries. WP:NPOL does not require sources to have a non-local audience, so her coverage is sufficient. Edge3 (talk) 23:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete most of the coverage is incidental to recent events there. For mayors we should absolutely insist on coverage outside the readership area and over a broad amount of time, such conditions are not met here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:37, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Johnpacklambert: There are some national sources cited above by @Zagalejo, concerning Highland Park's assault weapon ban. That coverage pre-dates the parade shooting. Additionally, Rotering is now getting national news coverage for her advocacy for legislation on assault weapons: PBS News Hour interview, Politico's Illinois Playbook, and Politico's article on Rotering's attendance at a White House event. Edge3 (talk) 23:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As she is a notable person:

Noting the reliance on interviews above, also:

I could go on, but there really is a lot of news articles about her and her role as a mayor, including stuff in the past 24 hours CT55555 (talk) 19:03, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete since subject fails both WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Forensics on the sources, whether proffered or found, only bring into relief the dearth of verifiability. We have: Multiple reports about the assault weapon affair, but not about the mayor per se; interviews upon interviews on the same issue; news items about the White House and the guns problem, in which our subject appears; etc. This is an exemplary case of one-event fame. All the Keep suggestions essentially amount to is an amalgam of "I like it", "I know it", and "Surely, there must be sources". Generously, one could, at best, place a Redirect to Highland Park, Illinois. -The Gnome (talk) 18:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Verifiability isn't really the issue here. There's plenty of information available about her political career. All of this predates the parade shooting. Chicago-area politics are exhaustively covered by local news sources. Highland Park has its own newspaper, the Highland Park News, which is part of the Chicago Tribune family. As I mentioned earlier, one could perhaps argue that the local sources don't count toward notability, although I'm on the fence about that. "ITSLOCAL" arguments get into philosophically fuzzy territory. Zagalejo (talk) 00:39, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I agree with Fbifriday. For those who are writing about her advocacy receiving nationwide attention, it is an instance of WP:TOOSOON. It has been ten days since the mass murder. The coverage is about the murders themselves, not so much her personal activism. Now, if her activism gets this level of attention a year from now? Maybe I'll reconsider. Otherwise, she's a smaller town mayor whose coverage amounts to coverage of elections in which she is incidental (e.g. any semi-valid primary challenger to Brad Schneider would have gotten that level of political coverage).--Mpen320 (talk) 03:06, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.