Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Linburn

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. If users wish tomove and rename, fine; this is an editorial decision anyone can WP:BOLDly make, and not something for AfD Ironholds (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Linburn

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Seems to be a minor part of Erskine, however good sources are hard to come by. Article doesn't have much context or content at the moment. The settlement is unlikely to be notable enough on its own, so the article should be redirected or deleted. Scotlandplaces.gov.uk says it consist of only one building. Travelbird (talk) 14:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Not enough information. Novice7 | Talk 14:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete – Judging by the information below, I lean towards renaming it to Wilkieston. Novice7 | Talk 05:01, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Powers that be save us from research-by-Google-Maps! ☺ The Linburn in Erskine is some 70km away from the Linburn near Wilkieston and Kirknewton that is described in as many words in this article, which is actually at 55°54′02″N 3°24′24″W / 55.90059°N 3.40660°W / 55.90059; -3.40660 (Linburn_Park). It's actually the site of Linburn House, an erstwhile mansion house, where there still is a Grade B listed building and a a Grade B listed building. The name to look for now is Linburn Park. The correct listing at ScotlandsPlaces is Old Linburn House, not some place in a different county. Uncle G (talk) 00:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Judging by the maps, satellite views, and business contact details it is a distinct settlement (thanks Uncle G for the coordinates) and thus should be kept by past precedent. It's not clear though what the name should be, the most detailed map I've found appears to use "Linburn" to label the old manor, "Linburn Park" to label an estate of houses north west of the manor and south of the A71 road, and "Wilkieston" to describe the settlement along the north side of the A71 around the junction with the B7030 Bonnington Road. The Angela Elizabeth Nursery, on Bonnington Road, gives it's postal address as Wilkieston [1], but the article states that Linburn is "Near Wilkieston". It also though says that is "on the A71" whereas from the map labels it is Wilkieston that is on the A71, not Linburn. From all the map evidence it looks as though this is, in the present day, one settlement and so they should all be covered on the same article, with the other names redirecting there. I'd suggest a rename to Wilkieston, as that appears to be the one used for postal purposes, and the only one used by Google maps, both of which suggest it is the one with the greatest importance. This is all without prejudice to a future splitting if there is enough verifiable encyclopaedic material to justify more than one article, but the present paucity of information suggests this isn't likely to happen soon. Thryduulf (talk) 01:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- John Wilson's 1882 Gazetteer of Scotland describes (on page 300) Linburn as a "seat in Kirknewton parish". The 1860 Nelsons' hand-book to Scotland: for tourists, also by Wilson, lists (on page 29) "the mansions of meadowbank, Ormiston Hill, Hill House, Linburn, and Bellfield" in the entry for Kirknewton. This article about Kirknewton parish, citing Groome's 1882 Ordnance Gazetteer of Scotland lists Linburn House ("a mansion in Kirknewton parish") alongside the aforementioned mansions. The parish of Kirknewton (abolished in 1975) doesn't exist any more, just like the mansion (mostly demolished in 1955), but when the historical things existed, that's where they were said to have existed.
  Groome describes "Wilkiestown" as "a post-office hamlet in Kirknewton parish". Ironically, it's the Pigeon racing news and gazette from April 1967 that reveals that it wasn't until after the demolition of the mansion, when the Scottish War Blinded built various facilities (including "a Housing Estate; a Hostel for the single men; modern workshops; recreational facilities such as a Concert Hall; Bowling Green; Playground; Playing Field; and a Youth Club"), that the Linburn Estate became part of Wilkieston. The 1973 Johnston's gazetteer of Scotland describes Linburn as "estate at Wilkieston". Uncle G (talk) 05:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Checking whether I have interpreted this correctly, you are saying that there was a manor of "Linburn", deolished circa 1955, and on the grounds of this manor a housing estate was built, taking the name "Linburn Estate" and that at some point between 1955 and 1967 the remains of the manor (and the use to which the site is currently put) and the estate administratively became part of the adjacent hamlet of "Wilkieston"? If that is correct, then I think the article about the settlement should be at Wilkieston, with redirects in place at Linburn and Linburn estate. Should there be enough notable information about the manor to sustain an article, then this would best be placed at Linburn in place of the redirect. Thryduulf (talk) 05:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - That's my understanding from what I've read (all cited above, so — as usual — anyone is welcome to double-check, and indeed find better sources giving better information). Uncle G (talk) 06:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. transcluded by Uncle G but not noted here. Thryduulf (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. transcluded by Uncle G but not noted here. Thryduulf (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. All the maps I have access to seem to confirm Thryduulf (talk · contribs)'s findings above, i.e. that the name of the village is Wilkieston. This would mean that Wilkieston would qualify as notable enough for an article. It would seem better though to create it from scratch with a clean history, rather than renaming the current article. There's really nothing in the current article worth keeping. --Deskford (talk) 02:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- A little more research suggests that the Linburn estate in Wilkieston is owned and operated as a residential training and recreational centre by the Scottish National Institution for the War Blinded. This would be worth covering in a new article if it were created for Wilkieston. --Deskford (talk) 02:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - That's in the ScotlandsPlaces entry that I pointed to above. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 05:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Going back to the nomination statement, there is indeed a Linburn that is an area of Erskine, that looks to be completely non-notable beyond the fact that it exists. Is a hatnote directing people there something that would be of benefit? I'm thinking something along the lines of "Linburn redirects here, for the area of Erskine see Erskine". Thryduulf (talk) 05:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- There's an already deleted article here that was about that Linburn, or, at least, "a hall like any other" named Linburn in Erskine. Uncle G (talk) 06:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - At one point this article mentioned Dunfermline and West Fife (UK Parliament constituency), suggesting the author may also have been thinking of the area of Dunfermline called Linburn. --Deskford (talk) 14:40, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - That's probably because it's on Dunfermline and West Fife (UK Parliament constituency)#Electoral wards of Dunfermline and small, outlying villages. George Alfred Scott (talk) 15:33, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand it, Wilkieston is the name of the village, which is to the north of the A71, while Linburn is the name of the Scottish War Blinded Centre, which is to the south of the A71 on the old Linburn estate, and is practically a self-contained village in itself. I would support a move to Wilkieston and an expansion of the article to incorporate both elements. I don't think there is any case for outright deletion. Regards, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:31, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The Scottish War Blinded website describes the Linburn centre as being "based at Wilkieston" [2]. I think the case is clear enough? Regards, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 09:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Wilkieston, with appropriate revision, per Thryduulf and Jonathan Oldenbuck. JohnCD (talk) 10:45, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename/Merge. Agreeing with others over how it should be at Wilkieston. However, even then there is hardly anything verifiable to say about the place. I wonder whether it would be better treated as part of its community council (Scottish sort of equivalent to parish I believe), which is "East Calder and Wilkieston". Quantpole (talk) 12:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Clearly covered by multiple sources, I would recomend redirecting Linburn Park, Linburn Estate and Old Linburn House to Linburn and any other feature that is covered by reliable sources. George Alfred Scott (talk) 15:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I would not recomend moving to Wilkieston, instead there should be a separate article for that place as searching for it on google reveals a lot of hits. George Alfred Scott (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - What I and others are recommending is that the article about the former manor and the current use of the site should be a section on the Wilkieston article - indeed if the Wilkieston article existed I would be recommending merging the Linburn article into it. Thryduulf (talk) 16:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that User:George Alfred Scott has been blocked as a sockpuppet. Quantpole (talk) 17:30, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note also that Groton Wood (talk · contribs), creator of this article, has been identified as a sock puppet of the same master, Crouch, Swale (talk · contribs). --Deskford (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting that British Listed Buildings treats Linburn Park as part of Kirknewton, while scotlandsplaces.gov treats it as part of Wilkieston. Since Kirknewton is a blue link and Wilkieston a red one, and considering that there seems to be virtually nothing to say about either Linburn Park or Wilkieston, I say redirect (or merge, if preferred) to Kirknewton. Alzarian16 (talk) 18:36, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That will be because Kirknewton is the post town for Wilkieston, e.g. the houses in the Linburn Park estate have the following address, "## Linburn Park, Wilkieston, KIRKNEWTON, EH27 8DU", and the Scottish War Blinded give the contact details for their Linburn Centre as, "The Linburn Centre, Scottish War Blinded, Linburn, Wilkieston, By Kirknewton, EH27 8DU". That doesn't mean that Wilkieston (or Linburn) are part of Kirknewton, just that they are within its postal area. Thryduulf (talk) 19:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 20:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.