Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dayton Hobbs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Boldly redirected to tee Ball. Stifle (talk) 12:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dayton Hobbs

His only claim to fame is organizing Tee Ball. Google returns nothing. He appears to fail WP:PEOPLE. Leonard^(Bloom) 23:05, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment And didn't I already go through a Google search before declining the speedy? If you search without quotes, you do get 85,000 Google hits. An impossible number to sift through. If you search Google News, for +Dayton Hobbs +Tee ball, you get 50 unique Google news hits. a manageable number for anyone willing to sift for the ones that are relevant. IMHO, the "founder of Tee-ball" is notable. Whether or not this individual fits the bill of particulars, I can't say. (That's why the "putatively" in the article.) I was too lazy to sift before, and may or may not do some sifting now. Leaving it up to the wisdom of the AFD cabal and consensus. Gotta go. Dloh cierekim 00:02, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

70 Google hits for subject + tee ball. Dloh cierekim 01:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, optionally redirect to Tee Ball. He is one of three major claimants as the inventor of Tee Ball, but there isn't enough to make him notable on his own (e.g. compare James Naismith, Abner Doubleday, etc., who have had actual biographies published about them). Best to cover the various origin theories in Tee Ball. --Dhartung | Talk 01:33, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Dr. Hobbs was the registered agent in Florida for Gospel Projects, Inc., which obtained a service mark on Tee Ball on February 13, 1973. There may well be other claimants, but Hobbs was able to convince the USPTO, and we are about verifiability, not truth. Note: I am not making any legal claims here; whether or not the ability of his organization to obtain (and twice renew) service mark protection assures he is the inventor is not part of my reasoning. There may well be others with equally valid claims, but that doesn't detract from Hobbs' notability. And, he did other stuff too. Frank | talk 01:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Query I get worldcat hits for his name. Same person? If so, we may need to look more closely at the book to see if his status as an author conveys notability. Dloh cierekim 02:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think he's notable enough without authorship, but here's a list from one of his ministry-affiliated sites, and then at the bottom of this page ("Other books by Dr. Hobbs"; also affiliated with his ministry). Independently, there are Amazon hits and at least one shows up on bigwords. Frank | talk 03:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the crucial test is World Cat. If his books are in say hundreds of libraries around the world, or in important collections around the worlds, it helps establish notability. Dloh cierekim 03:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One the other hand, galenet gave me nothing. A notable author should have some mention in Contemporary Authors. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 03:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 21:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He seems to have been influential to many. However I wonder if we should not retitle the article. Why is it Dayton Hobbs and not Robert Dayton Hobbs or Robert D. Hobbs?Johnpacklambert (talk) 02:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 01:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Frank or merge and redirect The claim to notability is tenuous, but he did get the patent for T-Ball. So he barely qualifies for "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field". Apparently, he gets a mention in How to coach tee ball without going insane, but I don't have access to this book. I did not find anything on Galenet-- and a notable author should have a mention in Contemporary Authors. A review of his works on World Cat does not show any that meet Wikipedia:Notability (books). Just hoeing my Row, the book listed on Bigwords, is only in two libraries, and does not meet minimal requirements. I find no indication that he meets WP:BIO as an author. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 01:56, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Redirect to Tee Ball. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 03:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.