Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Commanders–Ravens rivalry

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There's clear consensus here that this topic isn't currently notable; if someone wishes to actively work on it in draftspace they may request draftification, but draftifying isn't appropriate if we're just waiting for the topic to maybe become notable. Vanamonde (Talk) 11:41, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Commanders–Ravens rivalry

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It's tough to even really call it a rivalry at this point. This "rivalry" is just based on geography and, even then, sports rivalries are not presumed notable. There have been 7 regular season meetings since 1997, the teams play in different conferences, and only meet every 4 years. They have never met in the playoffs. 7 games in 25 years with no meetings in the playoff is not a notable rivalry and should not have its own article. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and American football. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know. There's a lot of coverage on Ravens-Redskins/Football Team/Commanders, but much of it is about how its not a rivalry. So here's what I've found on Ravens-Redskins/Football Team/Commanders: Washington Redskins-Baltimore Ravens Battle of the Beltway from Bleacher Report; A Redskins-Ravens rivalry? That's really for the birds from The Baltimore Sun; Ravens and Redskins set to renew the rivalry that isn't from The Baltimore Sun; Redskins-Ravens have same state of mind: No rivalry here from USA Today; Ravens, Redskins to renew rivalry that never was from The Star Democrat; Ravens-Redskins Rivalry from The Baltimore Sun; Kids start early in Ravens-Redskins rivalry from The Baltimore Sun; Ravens-Redskins a big game, but rivalry is strictly for the fans from Russell Street Report; Redskins, Ravens Indifferent to So-Called Rivalry from NBC; In Laurel, locals have mixed view of Ravens-Redskins rivalry from FOX; Redskins, Ravens agree: No rivalry here from The Cincinnati Enquirer; Rivalry? Redskins, Ravens don't see it from The Delaware News Journal; Redskins-Ravens: More than backyard rivalry from The Vincennes Sun-Commercial; 5 things you didn't know about WFT-Ravens rivalry from NBC; Washington and Baltimore's rivalry only exists off the football field from NBC; and Washington Football Team returns home for Battle of the Beltway from WTKR. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The plentiful coverage from local media sources (WTKR in Hampton Roads, Baltimore Sun, and other media outlets) should be enough to garner support beyond the general notability guideline when looking past opinionated writing.

It also looks like both teams competed in a basketball tournament at the University of Maryland not too long ago. NFL Fan Pass: Battle of the Beltway from Commanders.com Vataxevader (talk) 14:50, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
delete I live in the area and have heard nothing of this, unlike the age-old Washington-Dallas grudgefest. It's really impossible to defend this given all the press devoted to denying it exists. Mangoe (talk) 03:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. It is fair to say that there are few stances that make the matchup a true "rivalry" to consider. Despite my efforts to create the article, it can be expanded to cover games where playoff implications were on the line (2008, 2012). I will try to expand the history section for it tomorrow. I appreciate the input. Vataxevader (talk) 04:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Those were both week 13 games. I understand that the Ravens would have missed the 2008-09 playoffs had they lost that game, but you could say that about any of their wins that season (they went 11-5 and so did the Patriots, who finished as the 7th seed). It's different when it's the final game of the season, but they had another 3 games after that. Washington still misses the playoffs.

As for the 2012-13 playoffs, both teams would have still made the playoffs, but the seeding would have changed. The Ravens would drop from 4th seed to 6th seed and Washington would shave had a tiebreaker with the Packers for third seed.

I think it's WP:TOOSOON, as Beanie's sources largely point to this matchup not being considered a rivalry. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The deletion request for this article has nothing to do with a lack of content. It has to do with the article failing to meet the general notability guideline. Brad Hat (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Playoff implications would take role in late-season games when the "playoff picture" begins to take shape. For their 2012 season, the Redskins won 7 straight games (including Ravens in OT) to just win the division (after beating the Cowboys on SNF Week 17). You could say both teams were "In the hunt" for their contested playoff pictures in the NFC and AFC. Vataxevader (talk) 14:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and Wait per Vataxevader. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 04:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ fails WP:GNG and WP:NRIVALRY. Of the lengthy list of references listed by User:BeanieFan11, most argue that there is not a rivalry between the two teams. The few that suggest a rivalry only use the term sparingly, but there is a lack of WP:SIGCOV describing the teams as "rivals" in more than a passing, WP:ROUTINE, mention that could be used for any set of two teams. It is difficult for teams from opposite conferences to establish a rivalry since they play infrequently which is why generally only rivalries among teams who have played several notable games (Giants-Patriots, Cowboys-Steelers) or former division rivals (Eagles-Steelers, Broncos-Seahawks) have the coverage required to pass GNG. Brad Hat (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to speedy delete per G7 (author requests deletion). Absent a speedy, I maintain my “regular delete” rationale above Brad Hat (talk) 21:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also should be noted that I oppose draftifying. Its not a matter of WP:TOOSOON. The teams have been in the same metro-area for almost 30 years and the lack of WP:SIGCOV shows that no rivalry exists and there is nothing to suggest this will change. It needs to be a straight-up delete. Brad Hat (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no news sources which establish notability for "Beltway Bowl". "Battle of the Beltway" is used in other contexts (Texas HS football, baseball, etc), but I do not see sources establishing notability for the Ravens and Commanders. Namely, I do not see any article which discusses the topic in depth. Short history, not many meetings, no especially notable games. We should be careful about assigning notability arbitrarily to sports rivalries, and reserve it only for especially notable situations. The creator did a good job with the article, but I don't see any reference to notable matchups, just a list of statistics. It's not enough. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 17:30, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add - will be happy to change my vote if more sources and content are found/created, as promised above. Further, if the ultimate result is delete, no prejudice against draftifying it. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 17:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per creator: Draft After conducting my own research, I agree that the article does not reach notability guidelines. The only evidence supporting the article are past games with playoff implications for both teams. I am requesting the article to become a draft if the rivalry touches ground in the future (i.e. Super Bowl matchup, owner/fan dispute, etc). Vataxevader (talk) 18:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey @Vataxevader, I just wanted to mention that drafts that go without an edit for 6 months are eligible for deletion under the WP:G13 criteria. If you plan on keeping it for a while you may be better off having the page moved to your user space without an AfC submission template, as pages within the user page that contain an AfC template are also eligible for deletion under G13. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:02, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Got it. Commence with deleting. Vataxevader (talk) 19:14, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, I don't have the ability to do so and we may need to let this AfD playout unless a passing admin happens to decide to wrap this up. I do see that you've copied the content to your sandbox just in case though, so that's good. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete- I had no clue this existed and this is not really a rivalry, it's more of a geographic location match up between two teams that rarely face each other in the regular season. Sportsfangnome (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.