Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blood Circus

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Waggers (talk) 07:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blood Circus

no significant coverage in reliable 3rd party sources for the subject of this article under either name means it fails our verifiability policy. It may also not be notable enough for inclusion under our notability guidlines. After this article is deleted we should straighten out the redirects so they go to the musical acts as the more appropriately notable and verifiable entities Jasynnash2 (talk) 11:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral I got a talk page message about this article that I was the editor with the most-non vandal edits. Actually most of those edits were for removing attack edits against the popular indie rock musician Santogold who the subject (Santo V. Rigatuso) is suing for stealing his name. I made my point in a similar AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SANTO GOLD), where you can view my reasons for deleting that article. This one, i'm not to sure of. There's several COI edits and attempts to own the page by Rigatuso or someone connected to him. But I really don't think that's reason enough to delete the page on the film. I'd like a few more third party sources before I can make that call. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 12:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For transparency it was I who left the message on the above user's talkpage figuring it was as close as I'd be able to get to notifying the author or significant contributor. If it is better I notify a different user than let me know and I'll go ahead and do that. Thanks. Jasynnash2 (talk) 12:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, okay. I understand why you'd do that. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 14:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Current indications are that this article cannot be adequately sourced. H.G. 13:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Lack of credible citations does not mean that there are no third party sources for this; it simply hasn't been properly cited. I know of at least one newspaper article in the Washington Post about the movie: (Harrington, Richard "The Fans Cry for 'Blood'!" Washington Post 11 Feb.1985, final ed.). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feddx (talk • contribs) 15:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You should know this isn't just about what is or isn't in the article but, what is or isn't actually out there. In all honesty I found some stuff through google but, none of it could remotely be considered significant. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Transparency again. I've found two mentions at Proarchiver (the Washington Post one mentioned above, and an LA times mention in an article about Pro Wrestling) both are pay-per-view so I have no access but, if someone on here already has paid or wants to take on the cost please do. Thanks. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So only citations you can verify online for free should be included? Does that mean that citations from medical books, professional texts, and countless periodicals from hundreds of years prior to your birth are not acceptable as acceptable 3rd party sources simply because you can't call them up instantly for free on your computer at home? I don't recall reading that in WP:Source#Sources. You know, if you're unsure that the sources I cite are legitimate, you can get a library card, and look through some microfilm or other storage media. Most libraries carry pretty good archives of well known magazines and newspapers. Maybe even an unknown, low circulation fishwrap like the Washington Post.--Feddx (talk) 17:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

== KEEP ==

I have known The Rigatuso Family for over 60 years. Please read the real Biography of Santo Rigatuso (SANTO GOLD.) Much of this information can be found in Archives that Preceded the Internet. Actually there are dozens credit worthy articles on the Internet about Santo Gold and Blood Circus. Ask his Attorney's in N.Y., Sheldon Lustigman, Esq., of the Lustigman Law Firm who has known SANTO GOLD since 1985 and keeps a photo of Santo Gold on his office wall.

BIOGRAPHY:

Santo Gold is a Living Legend since 1983. He is known and respected Worldwide by millions. His songs and performances have aired on National TV hundreds of thousands of times. He spent close to Fifty million dollars promoting his name Santo Gold. If you are over 36, You got to know Santo Gold. He was spending as much as a million dollars on National TV each month. All of his commercials had him singing and performing in them. The Santo Gold (30 minute) Show out rated "I Love Lucy." If the public did not see him during the day or on weekends, they would wait up all night to see him. His infomercial's and TV ads., ran 7 days a week 24 hours a day. He was USA Networks best customer. Every Saturday for nearly ten years in a row, his TV Commercials would air, on over 400 TV stations and most all of the National Cable Stations. SANTO GOLD sung and danced in each one of his commercials, especially in Vince McMahons Wrestling shows. Santo Gold also hosted and produced "The Auction on the Air TV Shopping Network" which he founded in the mid 80s. He was dressed in character, sung and danced. It was like a continuous 24/7 New Years Party. His Network was live 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Then he aired and performed on the entire ABC Network at around 8PM Pacific time. He hired 3 inbound telemarketing Centers and thousands of operators to take the phone calls. He had 3 800 numbers on the TV screen. He received so many calls that it blew out all of the phone circuits and they were down for hours. He got into some sort of trouble with his catalogue project and over 3500 of his customers wrote in with their letters of support for him stating that they received everything that they expected and were happy with their orders. On Feb., 9, 1985 he hired an entire film crew and rented millions of dollars worth of film equipment from NY. Then he leased the Baltimore Civic Centre. Tractors and trailers full of movie equipment rolled in. He had 9 35 mm motion picture cameras, a train track surrounding the wrestling ring. They shot over 400,000 ft. of film. That is enough film to make 8 full length motion pictures. All of the cameras were remote control and were connected to moniters, even the one above the ring. The Golden Wrestling mat had his Name on it, SANTO GOLD. He hired a 40 piece orchestra, dancers, acrobats, cycle acts, and clowns and built a large stage at the opposite side of the wrestling ring. People were dancing and singing non stop for nearly 9 hours straight. Each attendent was handed a scream bag, had to pay to get in and sign a waiver that they were going to be in his movie. It was a long day, many wrestling fans were irritated that the show stopped and started to load up the cameras and prepare for the next scenes. They expected continuous non stop wrestling. There were thousands of people there. Right before Santo Gold performed, thousands of people were chanting "We want Santo Gold," We want SANTO GOLD." The place was roaring. Santo Gold pulls up in a chauffeur driven stretched white Lemo with several Guards and everyone was trying to touch his shiny attire. He throws hugs and kisses to everyone and was followed by the crowd to the very crowded stage. He was announced with an opening that Elvis Himself would have been proud of. When he presented the finished movie, Blood Circus at The Cannes Film Festival in France. He had nearly a dozen offers from several Countries and he turned them all down. He was fully dressed in the Santo Gold character and travelled with an actual armed guard (an off duty Police officer.) He then took the film to Hollywood and screened it at all of the major studios. 20 Century Fox exclaimed that it had the best sound track that they have ever heard. Then He screened it in NYC. During the 80s., over 20 of his TV commercials were running all at the same time with him singing and performing in each one. Each TV station ran his spots at least 10 times a day. He aired on over 440 TV stations at the same time for nearly 10 years. That's 4400 times a week, 30,800 times a month and 369,600 times a year for nearly 10 years. Millions of people had seen him sing and perform millions of times in the 80s. He was a household word and still is. People would call their friends, SANTO GOLD, or make statements like "Now don't be a Santo Gold." He has stayed active in the industry for over 23 years. At the age of 14, he worked in a small store that his Father opened for him. His Father and Grand Father had a Barbershop within viewing distance of the now Baltimore Stadiums. His Grand Father started the Barbershop fifty years earlier. They both passed away within 8 months apart. Santo became the second youngest State Licensed Barber In Baltimore at the age of 16. It wasn't long before he turned the back room of the barber shop into a music store. He advertised the store with full column ads., in the Baltimore News American Newspapers. During Christmas time he sold more drum sets then Montgomery Wards was selling. He advertised himself as "The Drum King of Baltimore." He would cut hair for 0.75 a head, earning $40.00 to $60.00 a day. He would close up the barber shop 6:30 pm., with dozens of people waiting in lineed up all the way around the corner waiting to get into the music store. He was the soul support for his Mom and younger brother. His broyher joined the Marines. Santo was born within blocks of the B&O Railroad, Babe Ruth's home, Edgar Allen Poe's burial place, The Headquarters for Montgomery Wards and the Baltimore Harbour. He is a devout Catholic and is very caring. He was an alter boy, a lector, and collected for many worthwhile charities. He would do anything for you. In the early eighty's, Santo created the name "Santo Gold." He had a special tuxedo made with golden chains sewn to it. He wore pounds of chains around his neck, a Gold Bullion and mirrored glasses. He created a character and became Santo Gold. He hired several manufactures to develop jewelry with a thin layer of actual 24k Gold. The items were not suppose to tarnish but many did. He would always make good and send his customers more from other factories or gave them refunds. He started his own National delivery service called "Happy Delivery Service" and hired people Nationwide to deliver the jewelry and collect the COD (cash on delivery)funds. It worked for awhile but many of his delivery people kept the cash for themselves. He created a catalogue with thousands of items in it. He gave everyone credit to purchase items from the catalogue. He sold millions of items including millions of pieces of jewelry. Many of his customers tried to pawn the bracelets, only to learn that they were not solid Gold. He never claimed that they were. He always stated that it was gold over metal. He lived 2 blocks from The B&O (Baltimore and Ohio Railroad) The Railroad offices had a Major 5 to 8 alarm fire. A Fireman was trapped in the basement, begging for help. The building was burning out of control. The Fireman was pleading for his life. There were many boilers in the basement ready to explode. Santo risked his own life and rescued the Fireman, saving his own and the Fireman's life. Tragically within minutes, the boilers exploded and the entire building including the basement was engulfed in flames. In the early eighty's Santo founded a pen pal club and had thousands of his customers correspond with thousands of seniors in Nursing homes all over America. During Easter he would place an Easter Bunny at the downtown McCoreys. During Christmas, he would send children Records from Santa Claus. One day Santo decided to attend business classes. He signed up for an evening schedule. One of the teachers was a CPA. He handed Santo his business card. Santo hired the CPA to do his taxes which were always current. The CPA had a nervous breakdown and lost all of Santo,s paperwork. Santo did not understand how to prepare taxes. Several years went by and he received a call from someone and said that his tax papers were found in a bottom of a barrel. He sent $18,000 to IRS but did not give them his social security number. IRS returned the funds and requested a social. More years went by and IRS sent him a letter. His attorney said, "Don't respond, "I will take care of it for you.", and never did" Santo had around 60 employees, many of them were stealing from him and throwing the orders in the trash and keeping the cash for themself. This led to a Postal Inspector visit. He called his Attorney and he was advised not to let the Inspector perform a search without a warrant. Santo wanted the Inspector to do the search and believed that there was nothing he was hiding. The next day two Postal trucks came with 8 more Inspectors and all of his files were taken. His notoriety caught the attention of the Press, we was now being attacked on TV and made front page headlines. A Prosecutor told him that they could not get him on mail fraud charges, since only 2 people showed up to complain, but insisted that they would get him on tax evasion and they did. On his last promotion that he did. He took a check to the Post Office for 1.5 million dollars. It was reported to have brought in over 4 million dollars. It was all ceased by The Post Office and it was also reported that postal employees stole thousands of dollars in cash from the envelopes. Please keep his History alive, this is what Wikipedia is all about. This is why you get Contributions, to keep the truth in History. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.94.106.244 (talk) 19:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well that loooooooooooooooong essay there pretty much proves what I expected. The page has WP:COI and WP:OWN problems and is an advertisment as well. The poster above also should read WP:NOT to view what Wikipedia is not. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 15:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that this ridiculous post is not at all helpful, it has nothing to do with the validity/notability of the article. If I were to use your logic on this, say I were to go to a stub article (Motorized scooter for example) and write a 10,000 word diatribe without citations that meandered all around the point, full of self-promotion and wild claims (say that I created the term Motor Scooter, and without me, there would never even be a motorized vehicle of any kind). Does it make the article less notable? No. All it would mean is that there is someone out there with a lot of time on their hands, a misguided sense of how to fix this, and a computer. No different than a lot of the editors here.

There's nothing in the giant writing above that refutes that the movie exists, that there have been articles in major press covering it, and is part of the cultural awareness of many people. Therefor it is notable.--Feddx (talk) 15:44, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well what I meant was that inside of that essay were points that confirmed that there was COI violatons ("I have known The Rigatuso Family for over 60 years") and an attempt to own the page. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 16:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this editor (and perhaps others that may be Sock Puppets) are doing a disservice to the article. But the article as it is now should NOT be deleted. It is not in violation of COI and is an article about a notable, albeit, obscure niche film.--Feddx (talk) 16:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I said in my first post on this AfD, my vote is neutral until some reliable, third party sources to the film's notability can be found. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 19:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what would be a reliable 3rd part source? Besides, of course, the Washington Post and the San Diego Tribune?--Feddx (talk) 00:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.