Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive372
WP:ASPERSIONS by Zemen
- Zemen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
First the user was already reported in september by user:HistoryofIran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1168#Persistent_attacks_and_provocation_by_Zemen.
During a discussion they commented me with, "Fixed. is that really the core of the problem? It doesn't seem reasonable to rename the entire template based on a few links related to one region. please keep your national biases out of this discussion." https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2025_June_12&diff=prev&oldid=1295230194 . They seems not have learned from the last report. Shadow4dark (talk) 14:29, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- so, what is the point? Zemen (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
More WP:ASPERSIONS by Zemen, why am I not shocked. May comment more later. HistoryofIran (talk)
- This is absurd, can someone tell me which WP:ASPERSIONS? Zemen (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Clearly, the aspersions in the one and only diff that Shadow4dark cites. By itself this is not very similar to the previous report, where you were shown to be commenting on other editors' ethnicity in a way that very definitely did merit sysop attention. In this case you're attacking people for having "national biases". It's not wonderful behaviour on your part, Zemen, but unless further diffs are forthcoming, I would anticipate no stronger sanction than the waggy finger and frowny face of mild community disapproval.—S Marshall T/C 16:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- If it were anyone else in my position, they likely would have responded in the same way. Please review the edit history of Template:Life in Kurdistan to see how Shadow4dark consistently attempted to impose one particular viewpoint. When those edits did not succeed, he nominated the template for deletion. Zemen (talk) 16:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- This is a WP:CTOP and you did the comments in these topics. Shadow4dark (talk) 20:10, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
If it were anyone else in my position, they likely would have responded in the same way.
- That is not very reassuring, considering you also tried to justify your attacks against me, and just a month ago you were not being very collaborative when I expressed my concerns about your edits on your talk page [1] (where you once again threw WP:ASPERSIONS against me, "I will bring it to an admin to review your non-neutral reverts."). Can you please elaborate on what exactly happened, with diffs and everything? HistoryofIran (talk) 20:23, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Please don't mix separate issues. This discussion is about a different matter, and the issue between you and me was resolved long ago. If you still believe I acted improperly and want to pursue it further, you are free to raise it in a separate section. Also, all I said in my talkpage was:
I’m the bad guy now, got it?
just a way of saying 'I was wrong', not a villain speech. I honestly don’t understand what was inappropriate about that. Zemen (talk) 20:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)- Actually, this is the perfect place to raise it, since this report is about you, particularly your WP:ASPERSIONS. By all means, please elaborate on what exactly happened this time, since you're also justifying this one. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- What you're referring to is part of a past issue that was already addressed and doesn't directly relate to the current situation. This discussion should remain focused on the specific concern raised in this report. If you believe the previous matter is still unresolved, you're free to raise it in a separate and appropriate venue. As for justification, as I said, please review the history of Template:Life in Kurdistan. When Shadow4dark was unable to attach the name "iraq" to the template or remove the existing name "Kurdistan", he nominated it for deletion. When that nomination lacked strong grounds, he then tried to redirect attention toward me, the template’s creator, using a minor comment as justification. Zemen (talk) 21:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- It's still not inappropriate as it's part of your WP:ASPERSIONS against others, and it's not going to be swept under the rug no matter how you much you try to dismiss it. And your explanation is not much better, but I am not going to bother further. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Zemen, I have no idea who is right here, but that doesn't matter. Unsourced accusations of bias make it impossible to have a discussion about it. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:23, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- What you're referring to is part of a past issue that was already addressed and doesn't directly relate to the current situation. This discussion should remain focused on the specific concern raised in this report. If you believe the previous matter is still unresolved, you're free to raise it in a separate and appropriate venue. As for justification, as I said, please review the history of Template:Life in Kurdistan. When Shadow4dark was unable to attach the name "iraq" to the template or remove the existing name "Kurdistan", he nominated it for deletion. When that nomination lacked strong grounds, he then tried to redirect attention toward me, the template’s creator, using a minor comment as justification. Zemen (talk) 21:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Actually, this is the perfect place to raise it, since this report is about you, particularly your WP:ASPERSIONS. By all means, please elaborate on what exactly happened this time, since you're also justifying this one. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Please don't mix separate issues. This discussion is about a different matter, and the issue between you and me was resolved long ago. If you still believe I acted improperly and want to pursue it further, you are free to raise it in a separate section. Also, all I said in my talkpage was:
- If it were anyone else in my position, they likely would have responded in the same way. Please review the edit history of Template:Life in Kurdistan to see how Shadow4dark consistently attempted to impose one particular viewpoint. When those edits did not succeed, he nominated the template for deletion. Zemen (talk) 16:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- Clearly, the aspersions in the one and only diff that Shadow4dark cites. By itself this is not very similar to the previous report, where you were shown to be commenting on other editors' ethnicity in a way that very definitely did merit sysop attention. In this case you're attacking people for having "national biases". It's not wonderful behaviour on your part, Zemen, but unless further diffs are forthcoming, I would anticipate no stronger sanction than the waggy finger and frowny face of mild community disapproval.—S Marshall T/C 16:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
The history, as far as I can see, is this:
- Template was created 3 days ago
- A couple rounds of reverts
- TFD
- ANI
Meanwhile, the template talk page is a red link. Seriously, both of you should know better than that. Don't just "pull levers" (revert, TFD, ANI) to get your way, actually talk to each other. There are obvious possible solutions here: if the links are only about Iraqi Kurdistan and not the other parts of Kurdistan, we can add more links from the other parts of Kurdistan. Or rename the template to "Life in Iraqi Kurdistan." The scope of the template and inclusion of links (including the Easter egg piping concerns) can be discussed on the template talk page (or at a WikiProject talk page or elsewhere). Approach this as if you're actually trying to reach an agreement with the other person, rather than making accusations of bias or trying to "pull a lever" to "win" the dispute. Zemen shouldn't have made accusations of bias and S4D shouldn't have skipped the template talk page and gone straight to reverts and TFD. Levivich (talk) 22:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- But also, this idea that "anyone else would have done as I did" needs to be caught and shot, right now. No. Say what's wrong with someone's sources, or their logic, or their calculations, or their choice of words. Do not say what's wrong with their attitude, nationality, ethnicity, politics, culture, or religion. People active in contentious topics need to grasp this or they don't last.—S Marshall T/C 23:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
- I appreciate your comments. you're right, I should've used the template's talk page first. I can re-explain there why the template should remain titled "Life in Kurdistan" and not limited to a specific region. Zemen (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
- This is not limited to this template. [[2]] here they removed region from this template but all of these articles are related to Kurdistan Region and not whole of Kurdistan. Maybe you can take a look as third party, user:Levivich. Shadow4dark (talk) 11:20, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
- I recently created Politics of Kurdistan, which covers all parts of Kurdistan, not just the Kurdistan Region. I added it to the template accordingly. If there's a better way to include or place the link, feel free to adjust it. Zemen (talk) 13:04, 15 June 2025 (UTC)