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Welcome to my talk page. Feel free to leave a messeage for any question or discussion.

Have a look

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Hi, it is regarding the "or represent a very early divergence on the Australasian branch" part in this edit. I'm unable to see that explicitly mentioned here. Also welcome back. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Hi, its from this sentence: "Andaman Islanders (represented by the present-day Önge population) belong to a deeply branching lineage of the East Asian expansion possibly branching early in the AA lineage but also containing some genetic similarities to AASI ancestry" Thank you! –Wikiuser1314 (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Oh yes. Missed that part lol. Thanks!. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:21, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at these changes. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:18, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Fylindfotberserk: Thanks for the notification, seems like the IP copied this in part from Initial Upper Paleolithic for whatever reason... overall no major cotent change but seems to be a more or less unnecessary edit.–Wikiuser1314 (talk) 13:51, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Your recent edits to articles on Aboriginal Australians

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Hello there

In our discussion on your recent edits to the article on Prehistory of Australia you agreed that the recent genomic studies on human migration patterns are inconsistent with the archaeological evidence and have not yet been widely accepted by scholars as establishing that the ancestors of modern Australians first migrated to Australia as recently as 37,000 to 50,000 years ago. You agreed to my more cautious wording here. . I was very disappointed to see that following this discussion you doubled down and added even more contentious wording to every relevant article on Aboriginal Australians. I would be grateful if you would replace all these edits with the wording we agreed on as it would be very impolite of you to expect that others do this for you. As previously discussed, you also appear to have synthesised findings from 13 different studies to reach a conclusion that isn't specifically stated in any of these studies. Once again I ask you to quote the passages in these articles which expressly state that the genomic evidence indicates that the ancestors of modern Aboriginal Australians first migrated to the continent now known as Australia 37,000 to 50,000 years ago. The passages you do quote refer to Papuans, Micronesians, east Asians and Neanderthals in Europe but as far as I can see only one posits that Aboriginal Australians separated genetically from Papuans 50,000 years ago. And that's a different thing altogether. Thanks Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 02:54, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Aemilius Adolphin, (At first I was a bit confused as I did add the relevant cites and quotes and reworded the other previous edits after your notification / our discussion. [...]) – Now I realize that you specifically referred to the article/edits on Aboriginal Australians. Sorry for that!
My initial edits on Aboriginal Australians happened before our discussion at Prehistory of Australia, after that discussion I just added the cites and quotes, but apparently did not adjust the wording there (e.g. more cautiously style etc.). That was obviously a not so well-thought action, thank you for correcting that! – It was not meant to be "rude". But a bit hasty. Regarding the other relevant article you refer (Indigenous Australians), I will copy the version you have re-written in a more cautiously way and replace the wording there as well.
Regarding the quotes for the time frame in "Genomic studies, however, suggest that the main wave of modern humans into Australia ancestral to Aboriginal Australians might have happened as recently as 37,000 to 50,000 years ago":
The timing of human arrival in Australia was estimated using the age of the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for the different Australian-only haplogroups, calculated using a molecular clock with substitution rates calibrated with ancient European and Asian mitogenomes18. Although these TMRCA values are likely to be minimal estimates given the limited sampling, they group in a narrow window of time from approximately 43–47 ka (Fig. 1 and Extended Data Figs 2, 3), consistent with previous studies (Supplementary Information).[1]
Taken together with a lower bound of the final settlement of Sahul at 37 kya...[2]
... the ancestors of present-day East Eurasians emerged from the Hub at ~45 kya (Fig. 1A, red branch). These emergent groups subsequently colonised most of Eurasia and Oceania.[3]
This implies that ancestors of all non-Africans sequenced so far resided in a common population at this time, and further suggests that modern human remains older than 50,000 years from outside Africa represent different non-African populations.[4]
E.g. those do refer to Aboriginal Australians and or to the common ancestor of Australians and Papuans: the Australasian/Oceanian clade.
We may use an even more cautiously wording and write: "Genomic studies, however, suggest that the main wave of modern humans into Australia ancestral to Aboriginal Australians might have happened earlier: between 43,000 to 47,000 years ago, after 45,000 years ago, or as recently as 37,000 years ago, with human remains older than 50,000 years ago representing different extinct populations." And adding the specific cites to the respective estimation. Thoughts?
The remainder citations refer to their affinities with other Asia-Pacific populations. E.g. for example:
Australasian, one of three deeply branching East Asian lineages (with AASI and ESEA). AA includes modern-day Papuans and Aboriginal Australians.[5]
Mallick et al. found that a well-fitting admixture graph (qpGraph, Box 1) grouped Papuans, Australians, and the Andamanese Onge with East Asians, with additional Denisovan admixture into Papuans and Australians [15]. ... Though present-day Asians and Australasians are more closely related to each other than to present-day Europeans, genetic comparisons highlight deep separations between mainland East and Southeast Asians, island Southeast Asians, and Australasians.[6]
Consistent with previous results obtained with a simpler admixture graph in Mallick et al. (2016), New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages[7] Etc.
Sorry again if you had the feeling of rudeness. This was not at all my intention. Thank you again. Regards–Wikiuser1314 (talk) 11:02, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To prevent double discussions, we either reply here or better at the talk of Aboriginal Australians:[1]. Regards–Wikiuser1314 (talk) 11:43, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I have replied on the article talk page. Sorry I got so cranky, it appears to have been a simple misunderstanding. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 13:43, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No worry, everything good :) I have made a proposal to include the various dates at my sandbox: [2]. Feel free to make further suggestions on the wording etc. Regards–Wikiuser1314 (talk) 15:45, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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  1. ^ https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fnature21416
  2. ^ Genetics and material culture support repeated expansions into Paleolithic Eurasia from a population hub out of Africa, Vallini et al. 2022
  3. ^ https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41467-024-46161-7
  4. ^ https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41586-024-08420-x
  5. ^ https://doi.org/10.1017%2F9781009246675
  6. ^ https://doi.org/10.47248%2Fhpgg2202010001
  7. ^ https://doi.org/10.1093%2Fmolbev%2Fmsw293
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