User talk:Sachdev Penrose

Welcome!

Hi Sachdev Penrose, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like it here and decide to stay. Our intro page provides helpful information for new users—please check it out! If you have any questions, you can get help from experienced editors at the Teahouse. Happy editing! 331dot (talk) 17:53, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Introduction to contentious topics

You have recently edited a page related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, a topic designated as contentious. This is a brief introduction to contentious topics and does not imply that there are any issues with your editing.

A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as contentious topics. These are specially designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have an expanded level of powers and discretion in order to reduce disruption to the project.

Within contentious topics, editors should edit carefully and constructively, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and:

• adhere to the purposes of Wikipedia;
• comply with all applicable policies and guidelines;
• follow editorial and behavioural best practices;
• comply with any page restrictions in force within the area of conflict; and
• refrain from gaming the system.

Additionally, you must be logged-in, have 500 edits and an account age of 30 days, and are not allowed to make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any page within this topic.

Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics procedures, you may ask them at the arbitration clerks' noticeboard or you may learn more about this contentious topic here. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{Ctopics/aware}} template.

331dot (talk) 17:54, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

why have you copy pasted this here Sachdev Penrose (talk) 18:01, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

You edited a talk page about an event related to the war(the kidnapping). You cannot make any edits about the Israeli-Arab conflict until your account is 30 days old with 500 edits. You meet the first criteria, but not the second. 331dot (talk) 18:18, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

yes and talk page edits are allowed. Sachdev Penrose (talk) 18:49, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

No, only specific, uncontroversial edit requests are allowed, that don't require discussion. (mostly fixing spelling or other minor changes).The restrictions apply to any type of page. 331dot (talk) 18:54, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

that's what I did. Also it doesnt say edit requests are limited to small changes. Sachdev Penrose (talk) 19:14, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

No, you engaged in discussion about your proposed edit. Please see WP:ARBECR. 331dot (talk) 01:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

In any event, the past is the past, you're now notified for the future. 331dot (talk) 01:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

where does it say I am not allowed to discuss? I read the rules but it does not say that. can you please copy paste the exact sentence? Sachdev Penrose (talk) 10:30, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

"Additionally, you must be logged-in, have 500 edits and an account age of 30 days, and are not allowed to make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any page within this topic." Edit requests are allowed if they don't require you- other than the request itself- to edit "any page within this topic"; "any page" includes talk pages. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

hmm I cannot see that using ctrl F on the page you linked. Please link the exact page you got that from so I know you're not making it up. I am following the rules written on the talk page "You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)" I made a non disruptive edit request which has been implemented without any discussion. The comment I was replying to was to explain the edit request, it was not a debate. Sachdev Penrose (talk) 10:43, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Very well, I'm not interested in further litigating the past; you're notified for the future. You did debate it with one user after the change was made- but again, my main concern here was telling you for the future. 331dot (talk) 10:51, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

depends on your personal definition of debate. the user clearly stated he does not understand the edit request, so it is not clear that my comment was engaging in debate (by popular definitions of the word) but rather clarification of the edit request, as the other user requested. on top of that you are "notifying" me of rules that cannot be found in the documentation. the rules also say on that same page that administrators are accountable for their actions so if you are an admin please familiarise yourself with the rules before coming to "notify" me of them. Sachdev Penrose (talk) 11:07, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm aware of the rules; be aware that in formally designated contentious topic areas the rules are interpreted broadly. As said in the notification, "When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have an expanded level of powers and discretion in order to reduce disruption to the project." 331dot (talk) 11:13, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Again, the past is the past. If you say you weren't debating, okay. This is really further than I wanted to go with this. If you feel I have gotten this utterly wrong, please haul me into WP:AARV. 331dot (talk) 11:15, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

you are welcome to go and interpret the rules however you want but you need consenus from other admins. My edit request is already implemented without any discussion. It seems you are misinterpreting and spreading misinformation about the rules. if you are an admin please refrain from doing that otherwise it may be appropriate to report you to the noticeboard.Sachdev Penrose (talk) 11:23, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Again, if you feel that my notification to you was utterly wrong to do, please report me. I've already said that if you weren't debating, okay. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have been notified of the restrictions(as you didn't announce that you read them until after that). It's over with. I have not given any misinformation. 331dot (talk) 11:31, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

it may or may not be misinformation. We have not reached a consensus yet. depends on whether you are actually able to reference the rule you mention in the documentation. Sachdev Penrose (talk) 11:37, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

I've given you all the referencing I know how to give. I've already accepted your explanation of your past actions. My actions are also based on my experience and knowledge which I can't necessarily spell out for you. 331dot (talk) 11:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

very well. I'll think about it Sachdev Penrose (talk) 11:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

In fairness to Sachdev Penrose

Although they did not put their edit request in the form of WP:EDITXY, they did make a legitimate edit request. Since Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, we shouldn't hold them to the letter of the rules, but to the spirit of the rules.
So next time, if the user follows WP:EDITXY to the letter, they won't get these "less than pleasant" templates. Hopefully we can bring the above discussion to a close (and also hopefully this doesn't start a new lengthy discussion). --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 20:40, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

It's my understanding that anyone who makes edits in the topic area should be given the notice about the CTOP restrictions. 331dot (talk) 21:21, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps. But if they didn't do anything wrong, it should be added after the template that they did nothing wrong, and the template is just an introduction. --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 21:42, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Maybe, although it says "This is a brief introduction to contentious topics and does not imply that there are any issues with your editing." 331dot (talk) 22:16, 25 February 2025 (UTC)