User talk:NumberVerifier

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Please help me with... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election I am trying to find the "final" numbers for the 2024 Presidential Election. In the article above, I find that a table does not "foot" (Grand Total, and State rows, do not equal the sum of the columns) and other table are not in agreement (Grand totals are different). As they are tables, I am assuming that they may be linked behind the scenes, may have been interactive, and are not easy to edit. While I could do a "proofing" if the file version was shared, I am at an impasse as to how to "make corrections" or to refer the situation to the author(s). Any thoughts? NumberVerifier (talk) 15:16, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! I updated the totals of the "2024 presidential candidates that received at least 0.01% of the vote" using the source editor. If there are any other issues, the best place to discuss it would be the article talk page: Talk:Third-party and independent candidates for the 2024 United States presidential election. I suggest providing specific details of which table(s) and/or cell(s) you're concerned about. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 23:09, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, GoingBatty: The action that you took reduced the difference of (Grand Total published - Sum of the Column values) from 89,758 to 66,722, or (23,036). This is better, but does not seem "close enough. I will use the talk page you have shared. Said another way, the Grand Total in the lower right corder of the chart on the opening page is now 155,289,233 (published) and compares to my calculation using the sum of the column valuses shown of 155,222,511.

Curioously, the values in the Column Totals increased by +17,015, while the overall difference was reduced by (23,036). Again, while this is "closer," it suggests that there are formula errors in the chart. In addition, the display fails to have the Grand Total equal to the Sum of the Columns...it may be the Sum of the Rows, (where the row totals are not the sum of the elements in the row...see WI as an example). I am sharing so that you see the magnitude of the "error," not to say that you caused the error. I am sure we both want the same thing and I am in the "easy" position of showing the error, where the accumulation of the values is likely a large computational model where links could be involved.

As noted above, I will take this to the talk page and appreciate your response and guidance. NumberVerifier (talk) 03:48, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@NumberVerifier: I copied the whole table into Excel and used the SUM function to calculate the total of each column. When you post on the article talk page, I suggest you specify exactly which figures are wrong and what the figures should be. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 04:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Would you be willing to share the block of data, even if values only, with me? I printed the latest chart values but would prefer to not have to manually type all the values of 50 States x 11 Candidates into a spreadsheet by hand. The first test would be to see how many states are like WI, where the sum of the row elements is NOT the published "Total Votes" in the far right column. Identification of those states would then allow for research into the gathering/linking of data to determine where the formula or sum is not working properly.

Is this something that could be attached to your notification and passed via Email? If the data is to come from the source behind the article, I will await an answer to my "new topic" posted on the talk page you shared.

Thanks for your assistance and thoughts on how best to fix the situation. This is an article that may be referred to a great many times in the future and the accuracy of the information is important. (At least to number geeks, like me) NumberVerifier (talk) 21:02, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@NumberVerifier: I'm not sure what you're asking. I don't have a "block of data" that isn't visible in the article itself. GoingBatty (talk) 23:11, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You said you copied the "whole table" into Excel...can you share that file with me? How did the chart get converted to Excel? I created a State review spreadsheet and did the first 8 States from AL to DE; The published number, when compared to the State elements had results of 1 correct, 4 Totals greater than the sum of the elements, and 3 had the published total less than the sum of the elements shown. The NET was over by 1,837; on the way to the 66,722 the Grand Total shows as over the sum of the candidate totals (last row). NumberVerifier (talk) 14:08, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do not mean to be a baby...was able to export the text to Word and the convert to Excel. I am showing that the column totals are different from the row totals. For cells that have a "number[r]", these were IN the row totals in most cases; they are NOT in the column totals. As these are treated as a "label" or text, they have a value of zero. You can see this by doing an =Sum(cell value) and see that it returns a 0. The row totals may have been copy/paste special values to hold their value BEFORE adding the footnote; the column totals are without the numerical counts for the footnotes q/r/s.

I will report this to the talk page. However, there are other errors as when you generate the comparison of the published row totals and compare them to the adjusted row elements, there are other differences, both + and -, and some are significant...with magnitudes over 5,000.

Wanted to share where I have made some progress, but also where there will need to be some research into how the chart was populated. NumberVerifier (talk) 19:43, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@NumberVerifier: I just highlighted the whole table in Wikipedia, pressed CTRL-C, then went into a new Excel worksheet and hit CTRL-V to paste it. I added sum formulas to the bottom each column and saw that in many cases the sum didn't match the values in the Wikipedia article. Even after changing "number[r]" to a plain number and confirming it changed the Excel sums, I saw that the totals didn't match. Therefore, I copied the correct sums from Excel back to Wikipedia. I didn't do anything with the row totals. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 01:11, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good morning: I copied out the values of the revised chart...and now I am unable to see the chart. When worked on, is it "removed" from the article?

Also, tracked the Trump/Harris totals from the inset at top right to the "Results" section, as picked from the segments on the left side bar. Below the summary is another state summary, and the first two columns for Trump/Harris tie to the Results Summary and the inset. I think this would be the way to test the individual state detail...except I have lost the green/yellow chart we have been discussing/fixing. Thanks,JMR NumberVerifier (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Copying makes a duplicate set of data, so if you truly copied the data, it's still there in the Wikipedia article. GoingBatty (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I wandered away from the source of the green/yellow chart; it has been found where I had defined it above.

Here's the latest...in 2024 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

Please go to "Results," then "Results by state" in the left bar

The "Results by state" table shows...

The row totals are correct, as published

The sum of the rows CALC is 157,024,512 (not the published 155,238,302)

The Column totals are not correct; I show them below

Candidate Total Change from Published

Trump 78,246,321 +943,781

Harris 75,824,877 +807,264

Green 873,911 +11,862

INDEP 756,393 0

LIBER 661,823 +11,697

Others 661,147 +11,606

SUM all COL 157,024,512 +1,786,210

Based on this information, the "Electoral Results table for vote counts and the inset view at the top of the article would need to be changed to these amounts.

Please review and let me know if you agree. If yes, then how do the totals get amended to the "right" values. Thanks, JMR 2601:182:981:7310:7897:3E61:1AD7:E1A5 (talk) 23:49, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that I am a rookie, with 0 edits. Assume that you havve an "extended confirmed" account and may have access to make the edits. Happy to share in the background in order to improve the accuracy of the article. Happy to proof the results to ensure consistency. Thanks, JMR NumberVerifier (talk) 12:53, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article doesn't appear to be protected, so I'm assuming you have access to edit it. At the top of the article, click the "Edit" button. Scroll down to the table and double click on the cell you want to change. Make the appropriate changes. Then at the top right of the page, a blue "Publish changes" button will appear. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 23:10, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article is protected. I sent the change information to the TALK page for action.

The green/yellow chart that we first spoke of has an "Edit" choice at the top. This article has more detail on the "Others" and the sum of the others does not tie to the main article.

I think the best path now is to get the Trump/Harris/Others/Total to be repaired. Once that is accomplished, a comparison of the "Others" can be done, along with a true up for the Trump/Harris vote totals.

I appreciate your help and encouragement but think that the "Third party and Independents..." article has less significance to the results of the 2024 Presidential Election, that could be repaired with the information that I have put together in the list above on 4/08. NumberVerifier (talk) 21:11, 10 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

When I go to Third-party and independent candidates for the 2024 United States presidential election and then click on "Page information" in the Tools section, the Page protection section doesn't show any protection. When I click on the "View the protection log for this page" link there, I don't see any protection either. GoingBatty (talk) 03:40, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]