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Books & Bytes – Issue 68

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 68, March–April 2025

In this issue we highlight two resource renewals, #EveryBookItsReader, a note about Phabricator, and, as always, a roundup of news and community items related to libraries and digital knowledge.

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The Signpost: 14 May 2025

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This Month in Education: May 2025

Information icon Hello, Chess. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Manual of Style/Israel- and Palestine-related articles, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 05:08, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:52, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

23:59:57

Hi Chess, out of personal curiosity, would you mind sharing whether and how long you were already ready to submit Special:Diff/1294642790? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:24, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

@ToBeFree: I wrote a draft yesterday and decided to finish it later. I forgot to actually finish it until today, when I was reminded in another thread at WP:AN a little before 23:00 that the case existed.[11] At that point I realized "oh shit I forgot to actually submit my evidence". To answer your question, I wasn't really ready to submit it. I couldn't finish the last paragraph.
The main difference between the draft and my final comment is I linked this[12] comment on my talk page by another editor. I took that out and replaced it with a vague reference to the type of editor I'd like to see more, because I didn't want to submit diffs about someone who isn't a party and who should be contributing more.
If I had more time, I would elaborate on knowledgeable editors not writing articles on caste because avoiding certain topics prevents caste-pushing (you can find many examples at the Kshatriya RfC). That creates the problematic scenario where Wikipedia's history of Kshatriya effectively ends in 700 CE. That isn't fixable by carpetbombing the area with bans, because we can't force people to edit or make proposals. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 01:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
😄 All good. Thanks for the clarification. I asked because the extension phase had been extended in response to last-minute submissions.
The volunteer aspect in the caste topic area is interesting. I have to admit I don't know much about castes beyond the school-taught simplified basics of the Indian caste system's pyramid. Applying page protection where new users engage in a strange form of promotional editing is simple independently of the topic, but it doesn't solve all problems. Thanks for sharing this. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 02:52, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
I'm afraid that you are misunderstanding a heap of things, Chess. That was why your RfC closure attracted a fair few queries, including from people who do understand. For starters, you say in your ArbCom evidence that "varna is a subjective term with conflicting definitions", which is incorrect, and in any event we have Varna (Hinduism) for that.
The article subject to the RfC closure was Kshatriya, which is just one of the classifications within the varna system. And, yes, it is a POV magnet because, as in the RfC example, folk just want to push the claim of their own caste etc. It is difficult to understate the desire of Indian Hindus, and especially the more right-wing amongst them politically, to be associated with ancient warriors and kings, and to have inherited a martial nature which they believe they exude themselves.
The Kshatriya article should be short because there isn't a lot to say about it as a class of people: it was defined in legend a couple of millenia or more ago and hasn't really changed, certainly not until the British Raj era & they misunderstood the entire Varna system. The Varna article should be much lengthier because it is the interactions between the four classes (+ "untouchables" in their various synonyms) which explain both much of India's social history and its present.
You should not have been surprised that a further proposal didn't come from your RfC close. The original proposal was a specific caste POV-push and the contributor was never going to be interested in any wider aspect anyway, even if one might exist. If you can't see that it was a POV-push then probably working on caste articles isn't a good use of your time, sorry.
Knowledgeable people, by the way, are well aware that getting entangled with the numerous socks, glorifiers, ill-read etc is a quick way to burn-out or a sanction. And their knowledge will still usually be wiped out within a couple of months unless they personally monitor it, which has implications for ownership etc. They aren't helped by so few admins having both sufficient knowledge and "balls" to patrol all of this. I've lost count of the number of death threats I have had through working on India stuff, and in one case causing me to have to relocate because the police deemed it to be credible (the WMF got involved at one point but I can't say more). So I'm not impressed by any admin or experienced contributor who bemoans that "knowledgeable" people aren't doing stuff - such people should be lauded for what they do, not criticised etc for what they don't do. - Sitush (talk) 15:00, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
@Sitush: I'm not an admin, and you're far more of an expert than I am on this. You're also more experienced than I am on Wikipedia. I'm basing my knowledge on what was presented and unrefuted in that particular discussion, e.g. You described Kshatriya as being "entirely subjective".[13]
My broader point is that, as a reader, I have no way of knowing that "who is a Kshatriya a 2025?" is an incredibly contentious issue. I believe this is a major content gap.
I'm lauding you for what you are doing. That being said, I don't want this to be the same as WP:ARBPIA5 where ArbCom carpetbombed a topic area without a corresponding effort to encourage collaborative editing. There's a cyclical nature to WP:CTOPS where ArbCom creates power vacuums by mass-banning disruptive editors, experienced editors "write off" the area, and the only people willing to edit are disruptive/unaligned with our principles. That is the cycle I want to break, because it leads to incomplete coverage.
Right now I'm writing WP:TITLEWARRIOR and Draft:Manual of Style/Israel- and Palestine-related articles to make it easier to prevent POV-pushing at requested moves. This is mainly in WP:ARBPIA but someone at the administrators noticeboard said it could be useful for WP:ARBIPA as well. I would appreciate if you wrote an essay on caste pushing (maybe WP:CASTEPUSH).
The goal is to form strong community norms against disruptive content-related behaviour. That allows closers to ignore editors who aren't here to build an encyclopedia but aren't clearly breaking any rules. It pulls more editors into being constructive. At Palestine-Israel conflict related RMs, I see most editors discussing sources instead of opinion now. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 16:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
Yes, I became aware belatedly that you are not an admin and I edited accordingly. I didn't get an edit conflict message but sorry about that.
I repeat, though, that varna is not subjective - it's written in scriptures and all Hindus accept it is there, even though it is a nonsense to an atheist like me. What is subjective, as I said in the RfC, is which classification within varna a person or group claims. They can and do claim anything they want, just as castes themselves appear and disappear (which can be evidenced in census returns of the Raj era). Whether or not other unaffiliated people accept it is another matter. There is and never has been a master list for who is in which classification group and caste itself is in constant flux.
Anyways, we will disagree, I guess. I'm certainly not going to be drafting an essay in the hope of it establishing community norms: we already have those norms in policies and guidelines - if people aren't prepared to follow those, they aren't going to accept an essay written by someone who is widely disliked among Indian contributors for, well, upsetting the vast majority of them over the years. The ArbCom sanctions regime helps a lot but my dream is of some sort of automated sock detection method (it won't happen, of course, because of VPNs, IP hopping and similar). - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

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Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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The Bugle: Issue 230, June 2025

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'Thank'

I’ve received a ‘thank’ from you which I think was meant for someone else. [Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard - Wikipedia] Sweet6970 (talk) 09:59, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, this was a misunderstanding – I seem to have accidentally subscribed to something. Sweet6970 (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

No worries. I was trying to find out what I did. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 20:34, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
I'm sorry for causing you trouble. Sweet6970 (talk) 20:36, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-25

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WikiCup 2025 July newsletter

The third round of the 2025 WikiCup ended on 28 June. This round was again competitive, with three contestants scoring more than 1,000 round points:

Everyone who competed in round 3 will advance to round 4 unless they have withdrawn. This table shows all competitors who have received tournament points so far, while the full scores for round 3 can be seen here. During this round, contestants have claimed 4 featured articles, 16 featured lists, 1 featured picture, 9 featured-topic articles, 149 good articles, 27 good-topic articles, and more than 90 Did You Know articles. In addition, competitors have worked on 18 In the News articles, and they have conducted more than 200 reviews.

Remember that any content promoted after 28 June but before the start of Round 4 can be claimed in Round 4. Invitations for collaborative writing efforts or any other discussion of potentially interesting work is always welcome on the WikiCup talk page. Remember, if two or more WikiCup competitors have done significant work on an article, all can claim points. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, feel free to review one of the nominations listed on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:49, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors' June 2025 Newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors June 2025 Newsletter

Hello and welcome to the June 2025 newsletter, a quarterly-ish digest of Guild activities since April. Don't forget you can unsubscribe at any time; see below.

Hall of Fame: Congratulations to Dhtwiki for their well-deserved addition to the Hall of Fame last month, and thanks to GoldRomean for the nomination.

Election news: Voting in the mid-year coordinator election ends at 23:59 on 30 June. Results will be announced at the election page.

April Blitz: 14 of the 25 editors who signed up for the April 2025 Copy Editing Blitz copy edited 92,769 words in 30 articles. Barnstars awarded are available here.

May Drive: 31 of the 54 editors who signed up for the May 2025 Backlog Elimination Drive copy edited 384,392 words in 216 articles. Barnstars awarded are here.

June Blitz: 10 of the 12 editors who signed up for the June 2025 Copy Editing Blitz copy edited 26,652 words in 13 articles. Barnstars awarded are here.

July Drive: Our July 2025 Backlog Elimination Drive will begin on 1 July and finish on 31 July. Barnstars awarded will be posted here.

Progress report: As of 02:30, 30 June 2025 (UTC), GOCE copyeditors have completed 148 requests since 1 January, and the backlog stands at 2,270 articles.

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators.

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Tech News: 2025-27

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Books & Bytes – Issue 69

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 69, May–June 2025

In this issue we highlight a new partnership, Citation Watchlist and, as always, a roundup of news and community items related to libraries and digital knowledge.

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team – 13:10, 1 July 2025 (UTC)